"Mainstream" Supercars

[samvia]

V8RX7 said:

Much as I like them, I wouldn't class the RX-7, Supra etc as supercars...

I just said that IF you include the NSX and GTR then they are hard to exclude.

IE I wouldn't call either the NSX nor GTR supercars.

I think all the above could be defined as Japanese Supercars partly because unlike the typical Italian supercars of the era which were basically rubbish at everything except going fast the Japanese cars were usable everyday which somehow detracts from their allure.

GT-R: Near on 200mph, 0-60 in 2.7, sub 7:30 around the 'ring, aggressive bodywork, plenty of carbon, genuine downforce, launch control, huge Brembos. Supras and RX7s do/have none of these.

[Dusty964]

Do these count?

Very mainstream manufacturers, only one or two of each, but still road cars...........

[anonymous-user]

V8RX7 said:

Much as I like them, I wouldn't class the RX-7, Supra etc as supercars...

I just said that IF you include the NSX and GTR then they are hard to exclude.

IE I wouldn't call either the NSX nor GTR

The GTR is easy to exclude IMO. You're wrong about the NSX though. Aluminium construction, na high revving mid engined, rwd.

[crostonian]

The definition of 'supercar' had it's own thread recently. For me if it was described as a Supercar in period then the description still stands, you can't compare cars from different generations. A 911 Carrera 3.2 was a supercar in the 80s, a current 911 Carrera is not.

Japan has only made 2 supercars that have been officially available in the UK, the Honda NSX and the Lexus LF-A

[Tuvra]

If the GTR, Supra, RX7 etc is on the list surely my earlier suggestion of the Mercedes SL65 Black Series should be on there too.

• 0-60 in 3.8 Seconds
• Restricted to 200mph
• 6.0 V12 producing 670hp
• Only 350 made
• £250k Price Tag

No?

[Tuvra]

crostonian said:

The definition of 'supercar' had it's own thread recently. For me if it was described as a Supercar in period then the description still stands, you can't compare cars from different generations. A 911 Carrera 3.2 was a supercar in the 80s, a current 911 Carrera is not.

Japan has only made 2 supercars that have been officially available in the UK, the Honda NSX and the Lexus LF-A

If thats the case, what about this?:

Wiki: "Reviewing a pre-production 2000GT in 1967, Road & Track magazine summed up the car as "one of the most exciting and enjoyable cars we've driven", and compared it favorably to the Porsche 911"

[V8RX7]

samvia said:

V8RX7 said:

Much as I like them, I wouldn't class the RX-7, Supra etc as supercars...

I just said that IF you include the NSX and GTR then they are hard to exclude.

IE I wouldn't call either the NSX nor GTR supercars.

I think all the above could be defined as Japanese Supercars partly because unlike the typical Italian supercars of the era which were basically rubbish at everything except going fast the Japanese cars were usable everyday which somehow detracts from their allure.

GT-R: Near on 200mph, 0-60 in 2.7, sub 7:30 around the 'ring, aggressive bodywork, plenty of carbon, genuine downforce, launch control, huge Brembos. Supras and RX7s do/have none of these.

So ?

If I added those things to a mini or kitcar it still wouldn't be a supercar.

You are also comparing cars speeds / specs of cars made 20yrs apart - that is incredibly naive.

I'd suggest that when the R32 GTR was released it's spec was more amazing than the current GTR is today.

[crostonian]

Tuvra said:

If thats the case, what about this?:

Wiki: "Reviewing a pre-production 2000GT in 1967, Road & Track magazine summed up the car as "one of the most exciting and enjoyable cars we've driven", and compared it favorably to the Porsche 911"

Nope that for me is a Sportscar, the 60s 911 wasn't a supercar either.

[V8RX7]

Tuvra said:

Mercedes SL65 Black Series should be on there too.

In my definition of supercar - it has to be a manual Autos are excluded - if everything is done for you then what's the point - may as well be chauffeur driven too.

I realise this eliminates many modern "supercars" but I think it was the mighty Hammond who commented when driving an old Countach - "all the controls are really heavy, I can't see out, it feels like it's trying to kill me... I love it"

THAT was a proper Supercar - not this easy to drive stuff that granny could take to the shops - technology and geeks have ruined the modern "supercar" I'd rather have a Cerbera / Cobra etc.

[Dusty964]

V8RX7 said:

Tuvra said:

Mercedes SL65 Black Series should be on there too.

In my definition of supercar - it has to be a manual Autos are excluded - if everything is done for you then what's the point - may as well be chauffeur driven too.

I realise this eliminates many modern "supercars" but I think it was the mighty Hammond who commented when driving an old Countach - "all the controls are really heavy, I can't see out, it feels like it's trying to kill me... I love it"

THAT was a proper Supercar - not this easy to drive stuff that granny could take to the shops - technology and geeks have ruined the modern "supercar" I'd rather have a Cerbera / Cobra etc.

So modern Ferrari, Lamborghini and so on...aren't supercars because you prefer a manual 'box? Further, it has to be hard to see out of, with heavy controls?

[V8RX7]

Dusty964 said:

So modern Ferrari, Lamborghini and so on...aren't supercars because you prefer a manual 'box? Further, it has to be hard to see out of, with heavy controls?

Compared to normal cars it has to be SUPER - fast isn't enough, particularly these days many Sports cars are too fast to use anywhere near their limits on the road so what's the point of an even faster one ?

It has to be an EVENT to drive - different to a normal everyday car.

A modern Auto Ferrari doesn't do it for me so to ME they are not super, they are dull. I can go 500+mph on a plane - that's dull too.

I think TVR had it right - NO Autos, NO Traction etc - If you can't drive then you will crash.

[Dusty964]

V8RX7 said:

Dusty964 said:

So modern Ferrari, Lamborghini and so on...aren't supercars because you prefer a manual 'box? Further, it has to be hard to see out of, with heavy controls?

Compared to normal cars it has to be SUPER - fast isn't enough, particularly these days many Sports cars are too fast to use anywhere near their limits on the road so what's the point of an even faster one ?

It has to be an EVENT to drive - different to a normal everyday car.

A modern Auto Ferrari doesn't do it for me so to ME they are not super, they are dull. I can go 500+mph on a plane - that's dull too.

I think TVR had it right - NO Autos, NO Traction etc - If you can't drive then you will crash.

Oh.

[Polrules]

Genuine Supercar from Nissan...




Only Mercedes I count as a Supercar...



Lesser known Porsche with it's engine in the right place...

[anonymous-user]

V8RX7 said:

Much as I like them, I wouldn't class the RX-7, Supra etc as supercars...

I just said that IF you include the NSX and GTR then they are hard to exclude.

IE I wouldn't call either the NSX nor GTR

The GTR is easy to exclude IMO. You're wrong about the NSX though. Aluminium construction, na high revving mid engined, rwd.

[anonymous-user]

swerni said:

I can't see how you can't include the NSXin the list.

First production car with Ti con rods, forged pistons
First production car to feature an all ali monocoque chassis, extruded ali frame and suspension
4 channel independent ABS
Mid engined hand built 8K V6
Developed by Senna

It's always in the supercar list.

[otolith]

I suspect that the place of the NSX would not be so unjustifiably questioned had it not stayed around with essentially the same power output for too long while the world moved on.

[Vladimir]

otolith said:

I suspect that the place of the NSX would not be so unjustifiably questioned had it not stayed around with essentially the same power output for too long while the world moved on.

Yes but it allows me to say my soot chucking hearse has more power than a supercar ;-)

[3000GT ANT]

If a toyota supra is a super car then so is a mitsubishi 3000gt........yeah thought not..

[RobGT81]

CLK GTR surely

[james280779]

swerni said:

I can't see how you can't include the NSXin the list.

well the NSX was originally developed with Pininfarina so it has true supercar roots, It was originally called the HPX (Honda Pininfaina Xperimental) - unlike the GTR (which is fast but not a supercar)