RE: New BMW M3 - details

[s m]

Guvernator said:

• Lower weight which is always good. Less than 1500kgs is a good start, however in an ideal world they should have aimed for less than 1400kgs

Less than 1400kgs would have been difficult as even the CSL E46 was a smidge over that ( with aircon )

[Nors]

Tomatogti said:

Nors said:

Apart from the significant torque jump over the current model, 430bhp is not a huge amount more bhp over the current 414bhp. This has to be the smallest incremental increase of any new M3 model?

Perhaps the power war between Audi and BMW at least may be over as previously mentioned when the B8 RS4 was launched. The latest RS4 having a nominal increase over it's previous version also.

Power to weight is a better performance indicator than just power. This is the first M3 to ever be lighter than it's predecessor so represents a reasonable power to weight increase when compared to previous generational increases.

Agreed and noted. The lightening of cars is obviously a welcome trend. I was merely pointing out that chasing power no longer seems to be the mantle.

[hondansx]

This sounds like it is going to be a corker.

The E92 moved away from driving like a sports car, and although it had a wonderful engine, the fuel consumption was a joke. Combined with a lower kerb weight, i'm failing to see how this car won't tick all the boxes.

[GroundEffect]

Nors said:

Apart from the significant torque jump over the current model, 430bhp is not a huge amount more bhp over the current 414bhp. This has to be the smallest incremental increase of any new M3 model?

Perhaps the power war between Audi and BMW at least may be over as previously mentioned when the B8 RS4 was launched. The latest RS4 having a nominal increase over it's previous version also.

E36 M3 to E46 M3 was only 17BHP.

And the fat torque curve will make the car much faster on the road.

And people saying they should have aimed for <1400kg...how exactly? You still want your AC, your sat nav, your electric heated seats and all the other luxuries you'd expect. <1500kg is perfect for a car which has a very heavy powertrain.

[Kawasicki]

hondansx said:

This sounds like it is going to be a corker.

The E92 moved away from driving like a sports car, and although it had a wonderful engine, the fuel consumption was a joke. Combined with a lower kerb weight, i'm failing to see how this car won't tick all the boxes.

I've driven the E30, E36, E46 and E90 M3. They are fantastic, but not one of them drives like a sports car.

[Mermaid]

hondansx said:

This sounds like it is going to be a corker.

The E92 moved away from driving like a sports car, and although it had a wonderful engine, the fuel consumption was a joke. Combined with a lower kerb weight, i'm failing to see how this car won't tick all the boxes.

A great one car solution., I expect it to be a far greater success than the E9X M3. An M3 Touring.

[Axionknight]

This sounds fantastic, cant wait for more details! I currently run a diesel barge and a second car as a weekend toy for fun (it's only a Volvo V40 D3 and a ClioRS 200), but if this ticks all the boxes, and it currently seems to, I'll be chomping at the bit to get myself a saloon model - then I'll buy a snotter diesel to do my running around in. Magic!

Come on BMW, make me part with my money,

Phoenix yellow please!

[gofasterrosssco]

RSgeoff said:

Can't understand why it's intercooler is "on top of the engine"???

"Despite its similar dimensions to the existing 3-litre ‘35i’ motor, the M3’s engine is completely different, with a unique lightweight block with low-friction cylinder coating and two small, high-speed turbochargers that direct air into a large, low-resistance intercooler on top of the engine".

Its not an Air-Air intercooler as used on most turbocharged engines, rather its an Air-Water intercooler, or commonly known as a chargecooler. The have a number of advantages / disadvantages, but are generally preferable if engine response if high on the priority list.

Its at the top of the engine as thats the most direct route from the turbo to the engine intake system.

[0836whimper]

Some tech must have gone into achieving that weight figure as I assume until a lightweight version comes out (drool) they will still have all the toys included, adjustable seats, satnavs, aircon etc.

Impressive in this day and age. Sounds like M have been listening. I'm a little bit excited now (F10 M5 left me stone cold dead).

[y2blade]

Kawasicki said:

hondansx said:

This sounds like it is going to be a corker.

The E92 moved away from driving like a sports car, and although it had a wonderful engine, the fuel consumption was a joke. Combined with a lower kerb weight, i'm failing to see how this car won't tick all the boxes.

I've driven the E30, E36, E46 and E90 M3. They are fantastic, but not one of them drives like a sports car.

That is because They are not supposed to!!!!!!

[Guvernator]

hedges88 said:

RSgeoff said:

Can't understand why it's intercooler is "on top of the engine"???

"Despite its similar dimensions to the existing 3-litre ‘35i’ motor, the M3’s engine is completely different, with a unique lightweight block with low-friction cylinder coating and two small, high-speed turbochargers that direct air into a large, low-resistance intercooler on top of the engine".

Aren't Subaru's like that? I thought that's why they had a bonnet scoop, or does that lead straight to the air filter?

Yes and they were rubbish, called interwarmers rather than intercoolers due to their propensity to warm up due to heatsoak from the engine underneath, especially in traffic. A lot of people got rid of them and replaced them with front mounts so I'm really surprised that BMW now think it would be a good idea to mount one on top of a hot engine.

[mwstewart]

Guvernator said:

Yes and they were rubbish, called interwarmers rather than intercoolers due to their propensity to warm up due to heatsoak from the engine underneath, especially in traffic. A lot of people got rid of them and replaced them with front mounts so I'm really surprised that BMW now think it would be a good idea to mount one on top of a hot engine.

It's a 'chargecooler', not an air-to-air intercooler. This has been mentioned above.

[JapFreak786]

oooooooooo I want the M3!! From previous threads looks like it will be priced around £55k+ onwards before options added on, just speculating but I'd imagine that's atleast £10k's worth of options to add in making it circa £65k which is out of my price range

Maybe later on in the year if they offer 0% like that did with the current E9X M3/M5/M6's?

[Dagnut]

RSgeoff said:

Can't understand why it's intercooler is "on top of the engine"???

"Despite its similar dimensions to the existing 3-litre ‘35i’ motor, the M3’s engine is completely different, with a unique lightweight block with low-friction cylinder coating and two small, high-speed turbochargers that direct air into a large, low-resistance intercooler on top of the engine".

It reduces lag

[Amirhussain]

crashley said:

Any talk of an estate version this time around?

I wish. looks awesome IMO.

[Dagnut]

Guvernator said:

hedges88 said:

RSgeoff said:

Can't understand why it's intercooler is "on top of the engine"???

"Despite its similar dimensions to the existing 3-litre ‘35i’ motor, the M3’s engine is completely different, with a unique lightweight block with low-friction cylinder coating and two small, high-speed turbochargers that direct air into a large, low-resistance intercooler on top of the engine".

Aren't Subaru's like that? I thought that's why they had a bonnet scoop, or does that lead straight to the air filter?

Yes and they were rubbish, called interwarmers rather than intercoolers due to their propensity to warm up due to heatsoak from the engine underneath, especially in traffic. A lot of people got rid of them and replaced them with front mounts so I'm really surprised that BMW now think it would be a good idea to mount one on top of a hot engine.

Rubbish in what sense? That was the common belief until Litchfield did the type 25 with a top mount..top mount is considered good for up to 450bhp..the front mount with extra pipe work increases lag

[kambites]

Zod said:

kambites said:

E38Ross said:

It may be a way to undercut the C63 in price??

Does the M3 share a block (or at least external block layout) with the 335i? If so, I'd imagine the development costs for a manual would be next to nothing.

I should imagine so. The M5 shares its block with the 50i versions.

Hmm, I'm curious as to why they don't offer a manual M5 in all markets, then. You'd have thought it'd just be a matter of selecting the correct parts from the bin.

[AdeV]

yonex said:

GroundEffect said:

The perfect car?

No, it hasn't got a pair of breasts.

Better than evens chance it'll have a ct though...

[GroundEffect]

gofasterrosssco said:

RSgeoff said:

Can't understand why it's intercooler is "on top of the engine"???

"Despite its similar dimensions to the existing 3-litre ‘35i’ motor, the M3’s engine is completely different, with a unique lightweight block with low-friction cylinder coating and two small, high-speed turbochargers that direct air into a large, low-resistance intercooler on top of the engine".

Its not an Air-Air intercooler as used on most turbocharged engines, rather its an Air-Water intercooler, or commonly known as a chargecooler. The have a number of advantages / disadvantages, but are generally preferable if engine response if high on the priority list.

Its at the top of the engine as thats the most direct route from the turbo to the engine intake system.

Yup. You want to reduce the air mass in the charge system as that improves throttle response (less inertia) and a water charge air cooler is typically more efficient so they can be smaller (air has a very poor thermal conductivity and specific heat capacity).

[Zod]

Dagnut said:

RSgeoff said:

Can't understand why it's intercooler is "on top of the engine"???

"Despite its similar dimensions to the existing 3-litre ‘35i’ motor, the M3’s engine is completely different, with a unique lightweight block with low-friction cylinder coating and two small, high-speed turbochargers that direct air into a large, low-resistance intercooler on top of the engine".

It reduces lag

I expect the engine will also have the turbo manifold philosophy from the M5 engine, where instead of just being in a line, the manifolds are routed to the turbos in the order that the cylinders fire to reduce lag.