Rise of the UK 'SUV'
Discussion
daddy cool said:
bqf said:
5. Crash Mass - lets be frank, bigger, heavier cars fare better in collisions than smaller, lighter ones. It makes people feel safer
Unless you are in the aforementioned smaller lighter car, or indeed a pedestrian.
300bhp/ton said:
daddy cool said:
I dont let 4x4s/SUVs out at junctions*. I realise its a hopeless form of protest but its pretty much the only thing open to me. I wish there was a way of saying "yes, you - im deliberately not letting you out because you purchased that behemoth.
You do realise this makes you a complete t- the exception is when i am out in the proper country, where people have them because they *need* them. You dont need a 2 tonne vehicle to drive down Ascot highstreet to get a Starbucks, or to pick up Tarquin from school.
t don't you? Not too mention you seem convinced you are somehow psychic and able to tell why a person owns said vehicle.bqf said:
SUV's have lots of benefits, and here's why I have mine:
1. High Riding Position - lets face it, they are good to see out of, for kids mostly, but also it's useful to have a bit more forward visibility
2. Towing - great tow cars, as they are heavy but the CoG is similar to the tow load. The best tow cars are 4x4s/SUVs
3. Space - I have a Touareg and it's huge inside - enormous boot, great space for front and rear passengers
4. Safety - having 4x4 is a safety benefit on wet, slippy, icy, snowy roads. If you even come close to rolling one you're driving like a turd
5. Crash Mass - lets be frank, bigger, heavier cars fare better in collisions than smaller, lighter ones. It makes people feel safer, and thats important
6. Off-road ability - useful to all, essential for some
7. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make you feel good. Yee-ha.
Here all some of the bad points:
1. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make some people think youre a tt
2. Costs - juicy, RFL, purchase and service costs high for lots of these things
3. Space - some estate cars have longer load areas
4. Safety - roll over in accidents, nasty
5. Fuel economy - additional frontal area, motorway cruising expense.
6. Costs - big tyres expensive to replace
just added a couple of negatives for you1. High Riding Position - lets face it, they are good to see out of, for kids mostly, but also it's useful to have a bit more forward visibility
2. Towing - great tow cars, as they are heavy but the CoG is similar to the tow load. The best tow cars are 4x4s/SUVs
3. Space - I have a Touareg and it's huge inside - enormous boot, great space for front and rear passengers
4. Safety - having 4x4 is a safety benefit on wet, slippy, icy, snowy roads. If you even come close to rolling one you're driving like a turd
5. Crash Mass - lets be frank, bigger, heavier cars fare better in collisions than smaller, lighter ones. It makes people feel safer, and thats important
6. Off-road ability - useful to all, essential for some
7. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make you feel good. Yee-ha.
Here all some of the bad points:
1. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make some people think youre a t
t2. Costs - juicy, RFL, purchase and service costs high for lots of these things
3. Space - some estate cars have longer load areas
4. Safety - roll over in accidents, nasty
5. Fuel economy - additional frontal area, motorway cruising expense.
6. Costs - big tyres expensive to replace
Kawasicki said:
bqf said:
Here all some of the bad points:
1. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make some people think youre a tt
Only to the stupid
2. Costs - juicy, RFL, purchase and service costs high for lots of these things
Is anyone asking you to pay these costs?
3. Space - some estate cars have longer load areas
Yup, in which case I'd buy a bigger car if I wanted that, I don't. The Grand Cherokee has a big enough load area for me.
4. Safety - roll over in accidents, nasty
In extremis maybe but I never get there, normal cars can roll especially assisted by a kerb or another car.
5. Fuel economy - additional frontal area, motorway cruising expense.
Again why should you be concerned at someone elses costs?
6. Costs - big tyres expensive to replace
Cobblers, my GC tyres were £390 for a set of ATs & will last 36K or more, with the trend to ultra low profile tyres especially on the German fashoinista sheep mobiles they are much more expensive. My Jaguar on 18s was £150 a corner.
just added a couple of negatives for you1. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make some people think youre a t
tOnly to the stupid
2. Costs - juicy, RFL, purchase and service costs high for lots of these things
Is anyone asking you to pay these costs?
3. Space - some estate cars have longer load areas
Yup, in which case I'd buy a bigger car if I wanted that, I don't. The Grand Cherokee has a big enough load area for me.
4. Safety - roll over in accidents, nasty
In extremis maybe but I never get there, normal cars can roll especially assisted by a kerb or another car.
5. Fuel economy - additional frontal area, motorway cruising expense.
Again why should you be concerned at someone elses costs?
6. Costs - big tyres expensive to replace
Cobblers, my GC tyres were £390 for a set of ATs & will last 36K or more, with the trend to ultra low profile tyres especially on the German fashoinista sheep mobiles they are much more expensive. My Jaguar on 18s was £150 a corner.
bqf said:
SUV's have lots of benefits, and here's why I have mine:
1. High Riding Position - lets face it, they are good to see out of, for kids mostly, but also it's useful to have a bit more forward visibility
2. Towing - great tow cars, as they are heavy but the CoG is similar to the tow load. The best tow cars are 4x4s/SUVs
3. Space - I have a Touareg and it's huge inside - enormous boot, great space for front and rear passengers
4. Safety - having 4x4 is a safety benefit on wet, slippy, icy, snowy roads. If you even come close to rolling one you're driving like a turd
5. Crash Mass - lets be frank, bigger, heavier cars fare better in collisions than smaller, lighter ones. It makes people feel safer, and thats important
6. Off-road ability - useful to all, essential for some
7. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make you feel good. Yee-ha.
Here all all the bad points:
1. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make some people think youre a tt
2. Costs - juicy, RFL, purchase and service costs high for lots of these things
3. Space - some estate cars have longer load areas
Like all cars, they have good and bad points. They can be enormous fun to drive off-road, and so I don't see why 'petrolheads' should automatically hate them. I race as a hobby and most racers have a 4x4 to tow the racecar, for example.
He speaketh sense. Another benefit is that they annoy the eco-nutters for no good reason. I love proper 4x4s and actually in the real world I think they can be faster A to B than a 'sporty' car. On urban roads filled with potholes and speedbumps you can just steamroller over the obstacles without fear of damage. On tight country lanes they can be driven into the verges to let people past without worry and on the motorway you can see much further ahead over the tops of all the other cars to see hazards in the distance. In the rain they can be ploughed through puddles without worrying to much what might be hidden under the water. It could be just me but I find I drive 4x4s in a much more relaxed way, never in a hurry which must make the whole experience safer too. 1. High Riding Position - lets face it, they are good to see out of, for kids mostly, but also it's useful to have a bit more forward visibility
2. Towing - great tow cars, as they are heavy but the CoG is similar to the tow load. The best tow cars are 4x4s/SUVs
3. Space - I have a Touareg and it's huge inside - enormous boot, great space for front and rear passengers
4. Safety - having 4x4 is a safety benefit on wet, slippy, icy, snowy roads. If you even come close to rolling one you're driving like a turd
5. Crash Mass - lets be frank, bigger, heavier cars fare better in collisions than smaller, lighter ones. It makes people feel safer, and thats important
6. Off-road ability - useful to all, essential for some
7. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make you feel good. Yee-ha.
Here all all the bad points:
1. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make some people think youre a t
t2. Costs - juicy, RFL, purchase and service costs high for lots of these things
3. Space - some estate cars have longer load areas
Like all cars, they have good and bad points. They can be enormous fun to drive off-road, and so I don't see why 'petrolheads' should automatically hate them. I race as a hobby and most racers have a 4x4 to tow the racecar, for example.
I sold mine on Thursday
but hopefully it will be replaced very soon with an even more obnoxious new one!Why I drive 3 "suv's"
The Land Rover Defender:
My daily driver. Torque'y yet efficient diesel engine, tough as old boots I can use and abuse it (which I do). Space in the back for my pushbike along with a 240v inverter and stove for when I go camping. Great for towing my trailer and general work duties. I don't worry about breaking it, and if I do it's usually not difficult to fix.
The Jeep Grand Chrokee:
My family hauler and all round comfort wagon. It has a lovely smooth autobox, large squishy heated pleather seats, climate control, cupholders, room in the back for all my crap, high ground clearance for those rough country roads, four wheel drive for the mud and snow and a lovely smooth petrol straight 6.
The V8 Land Rover Defender:
My weekend toy, soft top and V8 makes for a lovely back road runner. Great fun and and a bit of je ne se quois. I usually drive this when I want to get away on my own with my camera.
The Land Rover Defender:
My daily driver. Torque'y yet efficient diesel engine, tough as old boots I can use and abuse it (which I do). Space in the back for my pushbike along with a 240v inverter and stove for when I go camping. Great for towing my trailer and general work duties. I don't worry about breaking it, and if I do it's usually not difficult to fix.
The Jeep Grand Chrokee:
My family hauler and all round comfort wagon. It has a lovely smooth autobox, large squishy heated pleather seats, climate control, cupholders, room in the back for all my crap, high ground clearance for those rough country roads, four wheel drive for the mud and snow and a lovely smooth petrol straight 6.
The V8 Land Rover Defender:
My weekend toy, soft top and V8 makes for a lovely back road runner. Great fun and and a bit of je ne se quois. I usually drive this when I want to get away on my own with my camera.
I hate them, but I wouldn't complain if someone wanted to hand me one for nothing.
On some of our roads though, the SUV is massively unsuitable. After a holiday in Cornwall this year I was stuck behind many a X5, X6, Q7 or ML all pottering around the country roads. Roads that are perfectly wide enough for the cars they were built for, but every time you get stuck behind one of these things it needs to come to a complete stop.
I don't care whether figures state that some of the above mentioned cars are 'only a nats c*ck' wider than a Ford Focus, I've experienced it first hand, you can't see around them and they're a pain in the bottom.
On some of our roads though, the SUV is massively unsuitable. After a holiday in Cornwall this year I was stuck behind many a X5, X6, Q7 or ML all pottering around the country roads. Roads that are perfectly wide enough for the cars they were built for, but every time you get stuck behind one of these things it needs to come to a complete stop.
I don't care whether figures state that some of the above mentioned cars are 'only a nats c*ck' wider than a Ford Focus, I've experienced it first hand, you can't see around them and they're a pain in the bottom.
bqf said:
Kawasicki said:
just added a couple of negatives for you
Thought i'd dealt with those. If you;re even close to rolling one you're driving badly, they are thirsty and costs are a downside.Actually the tyres are cheaper than my non 4x4s.
C.A.R. said:
I hate them, but I wouldn't complain if someone wanted to hand me one for nothing.
On some of our roads though, the SUV is massively unsuitable. After a holiday in Cornwall this year I was stuck behind many a X5, X6, Q7 or ML all pottering around the country roads. Roads that are perfectly wide enough for the cars they were built for, but every time you get stuck behind one of these things it needs to come to a complete stop.
I don't care whether figures state that some of the above mentioned cars are 'only a nats c*ck' wider than a Ford Focus, I've experienced it first hand, you can't see around them and they're a pain in the bottom.
The problem with that argument is that most SUV's are narrower than your common work van's and a fair bit narrower than most trucks and buses.On some of our roads though, the SUV is massively unsuitable. After a holiday in Cornwall this year I was stuck behind many a X5, X6, Q7 or ML all pottering around the country roads. Roads that are perfectly wide enough for the cars they were built for, but every time you get stuck behind one of these things it needs to come to a complete stop.
I don't care whether figures state that some of the above mentioned cars are 'only a nats c*ck' wider than a Ford Focus, I've experienced it first hand, you can't see around them and they're a pain in the bottom.
So what you are saying is that Cornwall's roads are unsuitable for a modern working society and it's the infrastructure which needs upgraded.
Kawasicki said:
bqf said:
SUV's have lots of benefits, and here's why I have mine:
1. High Riding Position - lets face it, they are good to see out of, for kids mostly, but also it's useful to have a bit more forward visibility
2. Towing - great tow cars, as they are heavy but the CoG is similar to the tow load. The best tow cars are 4x4s/SUVs
3. Space - I have a Touareg and it's huge inside - enormous boot, great space for front and rear passengers
4. Safety - having 4x4 is a safety benefit on wet, slippy, icy, snowy roads. If you even come close to rolling one you're driving like a turd
5. Crash Mass - lets be frank, bigger, heavier cars fare better in collisions than smaller, lighter ones. It makes people feel safer, and thats important
6. Off-road ability - useful to all, essential for some
7. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make you feel good. Yee-ha.
Here all some of the bad points:
1. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make some people think youre a tt
2. Costs - juicy, RFL, purchase and service costs high for lots of these things
3. Space - some estate cars have longer load areas
4. Safety - roll over in accidents, nasty
5. Fuel economy - additional frontal area, motorway cruising expense.
6. Costs - big tyres expensive to replace
just added a couple of negatives for you1. High Riding Position - lets face it, they are good to see out of, for kids mostly, but also it's useful to have a bit more forward visibility
2. Towing - great tow cars, as they are heavy but the CoG is similar to the tow load. The best tow cars are 4x4s/SUVs
3. Space - I have a Touareg and it's huge inside - enormous boot, great space for front and rear passengers
4. Safety - having 4x4 is a safety benefit on wet, slippy, icy, snowy roads. If you even come close to rolling one you're driving like a turd
5. Crash Mass - lets be frank, bigger, heavier cars fare better in collisions than smaller, lighter ones. It makes people feel safer, and thats important
6. Off-road ability - useful to all, essential for some
7. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make you feel good. Yee-ha.
Here all some of the bad points:
1. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make some people think youre a t
t2. Costs - juicy, RFL, purchase and service costs high for lots of these things
3. Space - some estate cars have longer load areas
4. Safety - roll over in accidents, nasty
5. Fuel economy - additional frontal area, motorway cruising expense.
6. Costs - big tyres expensive to replace
Not all accidents result in a roll over and other vehicle types can and do roll over too.
Not everyone drives on the motorway, nor cares so much about fuel economy.
Tyres can be cheaper. Plenty of choice.
chris182 said:
He speaketh sense. Another benefit is that they annoy the eco-nutters for no good reason. I love proper 4x4s and actually in the real world I think they can be faster A to B than a 'sporty' car. On urban roads filled with potholes and speedbumps you can just steamroller over the obstacles without fear of damage. On tight country lanes they can be driven into the verges to let people past without worry and on the motorway you can see much further ahead over the tops of all the other cars to see hazards in the distance. In the rain they can be ploughed through puddles without worrying to much what might be hidden under the water. It could be just me but I find I drive 4x4s in a much more relaxed way, never in a hurry which must make the whole experience safer too.
I sold mine on Thursday but hopefully it will be replaced very soon with an even more obnoxious new one!
You are absolutely spot on when you say they are much more relaxing to drive.I sold mine on Thursday
but hopefully it will be replaced very soon with an even more obnoxious new one!Since getting my Freebie, I don't find journeys near as stressful as I did with the Jag.
I'm sure helped by the high driving position and slush box.
tr7v8 said:
Kawasicki said:
bqf said:
Here all some of the bad points:
1. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make some people think youre a tt
Only to the stupid
2. Costs - juicy, RFL, purchase and service costs high for lots of these things
Is anyone asking you to pay these costs?
3. Space - some estate cars have longer load areas
Yup, in which case I'd buy a bigger car if I wanted that, I don't. The Grand Cherokee has a big enough load area for me.
4. Safety - roll over in accidents, nasty
In extremis maybe but I never get there, normal cars can roll especially assisted by a kerb or another car.
Again why should you be concerned at someone elses costs?
Cobblers, my GC tyres were £390 for a set of ATs & will last 36K or more, with the trend to ultra low profile tyres especially on the German fashoinista sheep mobiles they are much more expensive. My Jaguar on 18s was £150 a corner.
just added a couple of negatives for you1. Image - big, high-ridin' cars make some people think youre a t
tOnly to the stupid
2. Costs - juicy, RFL, purchase and service costs high for lots of these things
Is anyone asking you to pay these costs?
3. Space - some estate cars have longer load areas
Yup, in which case I'd buy a bigger car if I wanted that, I don't. The Grand Cherokee has a big enough load area for me.
4. Safety - roll over in accidents, nasty
In extremis maybe but I never get there, normal cars can roll especially assisted by a kerb or another car.
Kawasicki said:
SUVs roll have a higher roll risk, that's just plain physics
5. Fuel economy - additional frontal area, motorway cruising expense.Again why should you be concerned at someone elses costs?
Kawasicki said:
My wife has one, so they are my costs too
6. Costs - big tyres expensive to replaceCobblers, my GC tyres were £390 for a set of ATs & will last 36K or more, with the trend to ultra low profile tyres especially on the German fashoinista sheep mobiles they are much more expensive. My Jaguar on 18s was £150 a corner.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Some simple rules. Avoid,
Then you can enjoy a proper car without the need to join the "I'm sitting high so I rule the road" club.
We all know that when they get to the bends they're utterly useless....
And also get the desire to drive up your arse and cross lanes at roundabouts and generally think they own the road and feel safer so are more likely to drive like tThen you can enjoy a proper car without the need to join the "I'm sitting high so I rule the road" club.
We all know that when they get to the bends they're utterly useless....
ts at the cost of other people not in SUV's. I do 20K+ miles a year so don't argue against it.A.J.M said:
Pish. Your comment is just ignorance to other forms of either competition or driving enjoyment.
There is as much skill being able to pick your lines and navigate across rough terrain without bogging down, or damaging the car as there is from kissing that apex right on a track or finding a open road that is empty of traffic and camera's.
A TRUE petrolhead can see beyond a stereotype and see that not everyone likes the same driving Nirvana.
Anyway. I'm 26, i have a 2.7 ton diesel auto Disco as a car, i've wanted one for years.
It has the high up driving position that is nice for forward planning on the motorway. The interior is massive and can seat 7 adults when needed, the boot is large enough for the Labrador to be comfortable in.
There is plenty of toys and it has a superb comfy seat and the sound system is excellent.
It has a removable tow bar for use when it needs to tow trailers and it is capable in all weather conditions.
A proper jack of all trades car.
It can go from daily driver to off road mud plugger by flicking 2 levers and turning a dial...
The roads in my area are terrible, in my brother's E46, your constantly looking out for potholes etc to avoid and serve around. I have no worries about that.
Plus i have a kitcar to use for when i want to go fast. Best of both worlds.
+1There is as much skill being able to pick your lines and navigate across rough terrain without bogging down, or damaging the car as there is from kissing that apex right on a track or finding a open road that is empty of traffic and camera's.
A TRUE petrolhead can see beyond a stereotype and see that not everyone likes the same driving Nirvana.
Anyway. I'm 26, i have a 2.7 ton diesel auto Disco as a car, i've wanted one for years.
It has the high up driving position that is nice for forward planning on the motorway. The interior is massive and can seat 7 adults when needed, the boot is large enough for the Labrador to be comfortable in.
There is plenty of toys and it has a superb comfy seat and the sound system is excellent.
It has a removable tow bar for use when it needs to tow trailers and it is capable in all weather conditions.
A proper jack of all trades car.
It can go from daily driver to off road mud plugger by flicking 2 levers and turning a dial...
The roads in my area are terrible, in my brother's E46, your constantly looking out for potholes etc to avoid and serve around. I have no worries about that.
Plus i have a kitcar to use for when i want to go fast. Best of both worlds.
I'm 25 with a slightly older Discovery 2. Off-road is fun!
What I can't understand is those who buy a large 4x4 but don't use it off-road or see any benefit of it and would be better-off with a conventional estate car.
skyrover said:
The problem with that argument is that most SUV's are narrower than your common work van's and a fair bit narrower than most trucks and buses.
So what you are saying is that Cornwall's roads are unsuitable for a modern working society and it's the infrastructure which needs upgraded.
You are of course right; we should take the historic roads and Cornish countryside and pave over the whole lot so the SUVs can pass one another with ease...So what you are saying is that Cornwall's roads are unsuitable for a modern working society and it's the infrastructure which needs upgraded.
If you get stuck behind a van / lorry it's an inconvenience but one you can live with - we all need groceries and builders need jobs - it's getting stuck behind an SUV with an overly-protective driver who could quite easily have fit their family in a regular car. It's fear of the verges at the edge of the road too - many SUVs have gigantic wheels with low-profile tyres or bumpers / splitters which totally negate the ride height they were built to, so their owners are understandably wary of going anywhere near something which could damage their road-going atroscity.
- may be bitter about getting cut up on the A10 by an X6M50d thing yesterday. It was recession white too!
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