RE: BMW M3 CSL: PH Carpool

[Rick H]

Thanks for all the kind comments all

I'll try and address a few points:

Firstly, this is the Stratstone Leeds car, it was there last weekend for the M3/M4 Launch and isn't for sale. It's back home now. Its original reg is RK04 WJD and has previously worn M3 MUG and 379 CYE.

I would agree it will do your head in as a daily driver, unless you're well into it. I drive a 520i Touring as a daily that cost £400 a year or so back. That's not for sale either

The 373bhp was measured at the flywheel by Thorney Motorsport. The thread is on PH with John Thorne making a contribution regarding the result. It was met with some skeptism on the Register, similar to here, so please take it with a pinch of salt if you so wish. I'm not aware if it has been dyno'd since.

BHP Thread - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

For CAT Training, I'm going through their Academy Programme one day at a time. Have done days one and two with day three coming up mid July. The two days I've done have dramatically changed how I drive and how I understand the car, and as I say, I can't recommend them highly enough. Colin is a great teacher, patient, easy-going and a joy to work with. They have Millbrook at their disposal which contains a variety of tracks and areas to get the point across, and the tracks are all but empty when you are on them; you have the place to yourself most of the time. I'm not on commission !

I remember the Clarkson/Hammond discussion comparing the GT3 with the CSL. The GT3 was £15,000 more to buy - so, if my man-maths is correct, that's £73k. The CSL was hard to sell at £58k. The question really is would the CSL have equalled the GT3 with the extra development a £73k price point would allow, or would the GT3 have equalled the CSL if brought in at the same price point. I don't know the answer to that to be honest. Best to have both I guess ! ! ! !

The Cups play a big part in the CSL's performance IMHO. The Supersports I run give around 1g grip limit whereas Cups are 1.4g. A cleverer man than me needs to do the maths so translate that figure to cornering speed.

[roystinho]

Rick H said:

Thanks for all the kind comments all

I'll try and address a few points:

Firstly, this is the Stratstone Leeds car, it was there last weekend for the M3/M4 Launch and isn't for sale. It's back home now. Its original reg is RK04 WJD and has previously worn M3 MUG and 379 CYE.

Damn... I can't really afford one at the minute, but it's not far from where I work to go ogle at if it was still there.

Just hope prices don't go too silly so I can get one in a year or two.

Nice write up by the way

[Leins]

The CSL came third in Autocar's "Performance Car of the Year 2003", behind the 360CS & 996 GT3 (a Zonda borked itself during the test), acquitting itself more than well in many of the key areas. That certain parallels could be drawn, given the price differentials to the Stuttgart & Modena products, says something about these cars I feel

[Gurbinder]

Here's ours had it since new and just done 13K last weekend.

[161BMW]

I must say the BMW E46 M3 CSL is the ONE BMW i really want.

[Clivey]

Gurbinder said:

Here's ours had it since new and just done 13K last weekend.

How the hell? I wouldn't be able to stop driving the bloody thing (unless I had some other, equally awesome cars in my "fleet")!

[Chapppers]

Mine's done 2000 miles since 17th May, Clivey. It's addictive.

[Clivey]

Chapppers said:

Mine's done 2000 miles since 17th May, Clivey. It's addictive.

I can imagine. Sadly I doubt I'll be able to afford an M3 and a Tuscan S (my dream car) for the foreseeable future. - I might have to settle for swapping my "baby straight six" 320i for a 330Ci (coupé), hopefully within the next year or so.

[Inverted]

Approaching 4 years in mine (Before this the longest I kept any car was 18 months)

Still as exciting to drive as the day I collected. For driving pleasure on par with GT3 RS imo.



Great write up btw. Off to the ring again in mine next month. Cant wait.

Edited by Inverted on Tuesday 24th June 16:45

[kmpowell]

Inverted said:

Approaching 4 years in mine (Before this the longest I kept any car was 18 months)

Still as exciting to drive as the day I collected. For driving pleasure on par with GT3 RS imo.



Great write up btw. Off to the ring again in mine next month. Cant wait.

I know/knew the 2nd owner of your car (who had in in 2005). He sold it to another person I know.

http://public.fotki.com/b3ves/csl/

http://public.fotki.com/b3ves/castle_combe/

[sjb1970]

trawler said:

Just responding to a Trolls remark made a couple of threads back.

Look at gt3 prices and the csl is a bargain

I was being a bit dim there wasn't I ? sarcasm noted and agreed ;-)

[Inverted]

kmpowell said:

I know/knew the 2nd owner of your car (who had in in 2005). He sold it to another person I know.

http://public.fotki.com/b3ves/csl/

http://public.fotki.com/b3ves/castle_combe/

Thanks for those. I know the previous 2 owners before me so thats most of its history traceable. Its defiantly a healthy one, ive done nearly 20k miles in it and its never let me down. Pulls well is nicely run in now.

[GarageQueen]

Washed mine today and just got back from the local Shell to fill with Optimax

I'm very surprised by the lukewarm reception it got when new - guess time has put it into perspective

As others have said its not a daily driver and I'm still surprised by how low you sit in it, feels not far off an Elise in that respect.

I run Supersports at the mo- I'd love to see how it feels on Cups but not brave enough!

[GarageQueen]

Gurbinder said:

Here's ours had it since new

Interesting - what was your thinking back then? What else did you consider? Were you in the front of the cue?

[lamboman100]

Good writeup. Pretty'ish car. Light, grippy and nippy, etc. etc. But it is still a real struggle to understand the excitement / fanaticism around the CSL.

[Chapppers]

Top Gear CSL Review on Youtube

This was always what planted the seed in my brain 11 years ago. I'm not even a big BMW person, I've only owned 2 and didn't particularly like the first one.

[Slippydiff]

Rick H said:

Thanks for all the kind comments all

I'll try and address a few points:

Firstly, this is the Stratstone Leeds car, it was there last weekend for the M3/M4 Launch and isn't for sale. It's back home now. Its original reg is RK04 WJD and has previously worn M3 MUG and 379 CYE.

I would agree it will do your head in as a daily driver, unless you're well into it. I drive a 520i Touring as a daily that cost £400 a year or so back. That's not for sale either

The 373bhp was measured at the flywheel by Thorney Motorsport. The thread is on PH with John Thorne making a contribution regarding the result. It was met with some skeptism on the Register, similar to here, so please take it with a pinch of salt if you so wish. I'm not aware if it has been dyno'd since.

BHP Thread - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

For CAT Training, I'm going through their Academy Programme one day at a time. Have done days one and two with day three coming up mid July. The two days I've done have dramatically changed how I drive and how I understand the car, and as I say, I can't recommend them highly enough. Colin is a great teacher, patient, easy-going and a joy to work with. They have Millbrook at their disposal which contains a variety of tracks and areas to get the point across, and the tracks are all but empty when you are on them; you have the place to yourself most of the time. I'm not on commission !

I remember the Clarkson/Hammond discussion comparing the GT3 with the CSL. The GT3 was £15,000 more to buy - so, if my man-maths is correct, that's £73k. The CSL was hard to sell at £58k. The question really is would the CSL have equalled the GT3 with the extra development a £73k price point would allow, or would the GT3 have equalled the CSL if brought in at the same price point. I don't know the answer to that to be honest. Best to have both I guess ! ! ! !

The Cups play a big part in the CSL's performance IMHO. The Supersports I run give around 1g grip limit whereas Cups are 1.4g. A cleverer man than me needs to do the maths so translate that figure to cornering speed.

My old car. I stuck the neck end of 30k miles up her in three years. Rob pampered it, I drove it as its creator intended

Lots of very, very happy memories.

Definitely the healthiest CSL I've driven, I ensured it was loosened up, so I'd happily believe the Hp figures.

Never knowingly abused (but never, ever a garage queen), she soaked up some serious punishment from Scotland to to N.Wales, Cornwall, the Col de Turini, Mount Ventoux, Gorges du Tarn. Italy, Austria, Germany, Andorra and a host of other fine driving roads.

Delivered to me on a Tuesday, on Thursday morning I set off on a 5k miles long Eurohoon. . . .

I'd have the old girl back at the drop of a hat A simply epic car. (was even better with the AP's all round !!)

Snowy North Wales



And this is what 10 days of hard european driving does :





More snow . . . .



Gorge du Verdon



Turini



Turini bus stop



Millau



Storm approaching Millau



Lunchtime rest halt



Summit of Ventoux



Nippy up there !



Reims





Border just crossed



Scottish hooning roads



Welsh hooning roads









And a moody one



Job well done ! !



One of the finest cars I've owned, and it stands shoulder to shoulder with ANY of Pork I've owned (996 GT3/RS, 996 GT2,997 GT3 etc) and if anyone tries to tell you otherwise, they're genuinely talking b*llocks.

And yes you're right it is best to have both, so I had this alongside the CSL.



Oh an Evo shoot at Goodwood (thats H Catchpole on the right with his back to you) :



The car featured in an edition of BMW Car too.

And a quick addition which I hope won't take the thread too far off course.

1M C V's CSL ? I've had a couple of 1MC's now. They are a stunning car (and a stunning drivers car too) The CSL chassis is easier to extract speed from, it's BMW M at it's very best.



The 1M coupe chassis is very good, but as polished and well honed as the CSL's ? No chance.
What the 1M Coupe does excel at, is making use of it's superb torque laden twin turbo engine. I can say hand on heart, I don't think I've driven a better car for snap overtaking, it felt like it was the equal to my standard 996 GT2 for punching past lines of traffic. Yep, that good.

And whilst that twin turbo lump might not be sonorous in the same way as the CSL's, it still plays a mighty fine tune. When I drove mine hard for the first time around the Gorge de Verdon with the windows down, I was amazed at just how tuneful it sounded.

Let us not forget the 1M Coupe was £20K cheaper (back in 2011) than the CSL when it was new in 2003/4. So how much would the equivalent CSL have cost in 2011 ? Take a look at the price of a an E92 M3 GTS for some pointers ....... The 1M coupe might be £40k 1 series, but it's more than the sum of it's parts, just as the CSL was.

If the 1M Coupe has a problem, it's that it doesn't feel that special when you sit in it. the token Alcantara bits aren't that convincing, the seats (standard E90 sport fare) are hopeless.

The CSL however turned the E46 interior into something very special, those wonderful (and practical) seats, the carbon door trims, the carbon centre console, all helped to make you feel like you were in a proper drivers environment, something the 1M Coupe fails to do miserably (until you start to drive it).

Both are great drivers cars, they just deliver their performance in very different ways, not better, not worse, just different.

Here's how the 1M Coupe seats should've been from the factory....... :

Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 25th June 01:25

[0836whimper]

[e21Mark]

Slippydiff said:

Rick H said:

Thanks for all the kind comments all

I'll try and address a few points:

Firstly, this is the Stratstone Leeds car, it was there last weekend for the M3/M4 Launch and isn't for sale. It's back home now. Its original reg is RK04 WJD and has previously worn M3 MUG and 379 CYE.

I would agree it will do your head in as a daily driver, unless you're well into it. I drive a 520i Touring as a daily that cost £400 a year or so back. That's not for sale either

The 373bhp was measured at the flywheel by Thorney Motorsport. The thread is on PH with John Thorne making a contribution regarding the result. It was met with some skeptism on the Register, similar to here, so please take it with a pinch of salt if you so wish. I'm not aware if it has been dyno'd since.

BHP Thread - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

For CAT Training, I'm going through their Academy Programme one day at a time. Have done days one and two with day three coming up mid July. The two days I've done have dramatically changed how I drive and how I understand the car, and as I say, I can't recommend them highly enough. Colin is a great teacher, patient, easy-going and a joy to work with. They have Millbrook at their disposal which contains a variety of tracks and areas to get the point across, and the tracks are all but empty when you are on them; you have the place to yourself most of the time. I'm not on commission !

I remember the Clarkson/Hammond discussion comparing the GT3 with the CSL. The GT3 was £15,000 more to buy - so, if my man-maths is correct, that's £73k. The CSL was hard to sell at £58k. The question really is would the CSL have equalled the GT3 with the extra development a £73k price point would allow, or would the GT3 have equalled the CSL if brought in at the same price point. I don't know the answer to that to be honest. Best to have both I guess ! ! ! !

The Cups play a big part in the CSL's performance IMHO. The Supersports I run give around 1g grip limit whereas Cups are 1.4g. A cleverer man than me needs to do the maths so translate that figure to cornering speed.

My old car. I stuck the neck end of 30k miles up her in three years. Rob pampered it, I drove it as its creator intended

Lots of very, very happy memories.

Definitely the healthiest CSL I've driven, I ensured it was loosened up, so I'd happily believe the Hp figures.

Never knowingly abused (but never, ever a garage queen), she soaked up some serious punishment from Scotland to to N.Wales, Cornwall, the Col de Turini, Mount Ventoux, Gorges du Tarn. Italy, Austria, Germany, Andorra and a host of other fine driving roads.

Delivered to me on a Tuesday, on Thursday morning I set off on a 5k miles long Eurohoon. . . .

I'd have the old girl back at the drop of a hat A simply epic car. (was even better with the AP's all round !!)

Snowy North Wales



And this is what 10 days of hard european driving does :





More snow . . . .



Gorge du Verdon



Turini



Turini bus stop



Millau



Storm approaching Millau



Lunchtime rest halt



Summit of Ventoux



Nippy up there !



Reims





Border just crossed



Scottish hooning roads



Welsh hooning roads









And a moody one



Job well done ! !



One of the finest cars I've owned, and it stands shoulder to shoulder with ANY of Pork I've owned (996 GT3/RS, 996 GT2,997 GT3 etc) and if anyone tries to tell you otherwise, they're genuinely talking b*llocks.

And yes you're right it is best to have both, so I had this alongside the CSL.



Oh an Evo shoot at Goodwood (thats H Catchpole on the right with his back to you) :



The car featured in an edition of BMW Car too.

And a quick addition which I hope won't take the thread too far off course.

1M C V's CSL ? I've had a couple of 1MC's now. They are a stunning car (and a stunning drivers car too) The CSL chassis is easier to extract speed from, it's BMW M at it's very best.



The 1M coupe chassis is very good, but as polished and well honed as the CSL's ? No chance.
What the 1M Coupe does excel at, is making use of it's superb torque laden twin turbo engine. I can say hand on heart, I don't think I've driven a better car for snap overtaking, it felt like it was the equal to my standard 996 GT2 for punching past lines of traffic. Yep, that good.

And whilst that twin turbo lump might not be sonorous in the same way as the CSL's, it still plays a mighty fine tune. When I drove mine hard for the first time around the Gorge de Verdon with the windows down, I was amazed at just how tuneful it sounded.

Let us not forget the 1M Coupe was £20K cheaper (back in 2011) than the CSL when it was new in 2003/4. So how much would the equivalent CSL have cost in 2011 ? Take a look at the price of a an E92 M3 GTS for some pointers ....... The 1M coupe might be £40k 1 series, but it's more than the sum of it's parts, just as the CSL was.

If the 1M Coupe has a problem, it's that it doesn't feel that special when you sit in it. the token Alcantara bits aren't that convincing, the seats (standard E90 sport fare) are hopeless.

The CSL however turned the E46 interior into something very special, those wonderful (and practical) seats, the carbon door trims, the carbon centre console, all helped to make you feel like you were in a proper drivers environment, something the 1M Coupe fails to do miserably (until you start to drive it).

Both are great drivers cars, they just deliver their performance in very different ways, not better, not worse, just different.

Here's how the 1M Coupe seats should've been from the factory....... :

Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 25th June 01:25

Nice reply and great to see a CSL being used as makers intended! I'm wondering how many will simply become pampered "investments" now values have climbed, as with E30 M3, where it's getting rarer to see them being used? I think it's a shame when perceived values mean drivers cars don't get driven.

[Macadoodle]

Never really considered a CSL, but this thread has me thinking otherwise. Surprised the road tests when it came out weren't better. Had a read of Evo magazine's (issue 60) test against a 996 GT3 and a Spec C Impreza, and they were a little luke-warm about it. They did a comparison with a standard (manual) M3 and couldn't see where the extra £20k was going.

Just had a quick look at the classifieds - £47k for a ten year old Three Series? They must be good

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...