Bought a rot box, how much to fix?

[Blue Oval84]

carbonblack said:

Would you mind sharing which BMW Specialist you rate so highly? I am in Sussex so interested to find someone who is recommended.

Thanks

Certainly, it's Walkers Autotech in Wisburgh Green.

They look after my mate's E60 M5, they seem to have an uncanny ability to know everything about the car, and their showroom stock is amongst the cleanest I've ever seen.

[Spoonman]

Ignore the nay-sayers, OP. The ST200 will eventually become desirable, and the LE will be rarest of all (despite that interior and the ugly four-door body). Stash one away, along with an FRP and Mk1 Focus RS, and it's money in the bank.

I think you're paying over the odds for the welding and paintwork (you'd get that cut out, welded and sprayed for half the amount up north) but there's a lot to be said for using a place you trust.

Good luck.

[CO2000]

Spoonman said:

I think you're paying over the odds for the welding and paintwork (you'd get that cut out, welded and sprayed for half the amount up north) but there's a lot to be said for using a place you trust.

Wonder how much for "cash"...

[jhfozzy]

Well done for persevering with the project, If you've got the bug for a certain car, you will do silly things to keep it going. My daily driver (Mazda 6) that I'd had from new in 2004 failed its MOT last year for corrosion near the rear seatbelt mounting points. Upon investigation, it turned out that the rot was a lot worse than that, all along the sills and up into the wheel arches.

All the rot was ripped / ground out, new sills made (couldn't find new in the UK for love nor money) plates made and welded in, jenolite (love that stuff) liberally applied. All undercoated, painted and resealed with underseal or stonechip.

Luckily, I work in a garage (on the electrical side) and did it in my spare time, took me two weeks in all of lunch breaks and before / after work.

I think I worked out that it would have cost in the region of £3000 if we'd charged for it so was a LOT more than a 11 year old Mazda was worth.

(It turns out that the mounting points that the rust was near weren't used in this car as the seat belt mounting points which the MOT tester (a good mate, really) apologised for. He really did me a favour though as the rot would have been a lot worse the year after).

A few pics of the work, I'm especially proud of my hi-tech bending machine (signpost). I didn't think it was a half bad job for a beginner.

[carbonblack]

Blue Oval84 said:

Certainly, it's Walkers Autotech in Wisburgh Green.

They look after my mate's E60 M5, they seem to have an uncanny ability to know everything about the car, and their showroom stock is amongst the cleanest I've ever seen.

Thanks! The name does ring a bell though haven't ever dealt with them.

Good luck with the ST200

[ya_bollox]

CO2000 said:

Spoonman said:

I think you're paying over the odds for the welding and paintwork (you'd get that cut out, welded and sprayed for half the amount up north) but there's a lot to be said for using a place you trust.

Wonder how much for "cash"...

I think If you have any interest in the car/repair lasting Its worth doing the job right, With bodywork its definitely a case of ''Pay Peanuts - Get Monkeys, Most panel beaters I know aren't capable enough to do quality metal work - Just make it up with filler, which is fair enough and would do on a run of the mill transport box, But Not on Decent cars,

Any half useful lad will know as soon as he starts cutting - He'll start discovering al-sorts Dodgy repairs, MORE rust then expected(always the case) and so will over-price slightly to account for such, Its the only way to make it worth while,

And why do I feel entitled to post this?? well here's some normal work for me

Roof skin off,

Rust/corrosion on inner frame under roof skin,

inner structure blasted, then epoxy primed

Replacement skin on,

Replacement Sunroof tray fitted,

End product (won't need filler high build primer will sort my imperfections


Its not an easy job to do right, And you don't just pick the required skills up off the floor,
There's twos ways to deal with rust, Properly or not at all(get a clean shell), when it comes to cars worth keeping IMO

[Blue Oval84]

For some reason I haven't seen anything hinting that there were extra replies to my thread, I thought it had died off!

Ya_bks and jhfozzy - looks like really good work, I really wish that I had the time, space, and skills to do it myself to that standard! You must love the 6 fozzy...

Ya_bks - what is the car and roughly how much is that level of rebuild setting the owner back?!

Unfortunately the only reason that I've come back to the thread is to report that I've given in.

I found a water leak in the passenger footwell on Monday, by yesterday I found the cause. It was a shoelace that was threaded through the bulkhead into the trim by the floor and had been used to wire a subwoofer by the previous owner. It was weird, but despite the bonnet end of the lace being dry, the water was obviously getting onto it somewhere near a drain, soaking down the lace and into the car. It was like a bloody reverse action straw.

Anyway, I pulled the carpet up as I was worried about how long this weird leak may have been going on for (previous owner garaged it and was a low miles user).

It's not pretty under there, one area has rotted through completely, and another is so rotten I'm sure it's all rust and no metal. The rest of the front passenger floor is bubbling up in all manner of places.

Anyway, long story short, the bodyshop confirmed that they hadn't included that in their £2K quote as it was hidden under the carpet and no one knew it was there. To add it is going to add a fortune to the bill (interior needs removing, new floor in the passenger side at least and you can bet it will just get worse).

I'm afraid on top of the existing bill, and the broken mechanicals, even my most wildly optimistic man maths can't make this add up and I'll be putting her up on eBay as a spare/repairs car.

Genuinely gutted, I feel like a plumb for not spotting this but have never made it a habit to tear up the carpet when viewing used cars (I may do now!).

Fortunately my parents still have my old (much younger!) Mondeo so I'm taking that back and will spend the rest of this year recouping the £2.5-£3K that I've lost.

Thanks for the moral support throughout guys and I'm just sorry I'm not posting up pictures of a finished project.

[swisstoni]

Sorry to hear how this finished up. Most of us will have had a few disasters. An XJ12 once broke my heart and my wallet.

[skyrover]

Would it not be possible to simply find another mondeo saloon and transfer the bits over?

Here's one with only 42,000 miles on and looks in really good shape

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Mondeo-Only-42000-m...

Edited by skyrover on Wednesday 27th January 21:34

[Blue Oval84]

skyrover said:

Would it not be possible to simply find another mondeo saloon and transfer the bits over?

Here's one with only 42,000 miles on and looks in really good shape

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Mondeo-Only-42000-m...

Edited by skyrover on Wednesday 27th January 21:34

It would be possible, but not particularly desirable to be honest. It'd never be a "real one" in most people's eyes, plus I have no space, skills or tools to do it myself either. Besides, I'd feel bad for killing what actually looks like a lovely Si!

[ya_bollox]

[quote=Blue Oval84]Ya_bks - what is the car and roughly how much is that level of rebuild setting the owner back?!
quote]

Its a series2 RS-T escort,
All matching numbers, two owners and full history,

A bit over 4k in labour alone, all replacement panels available, Two donor shells - one for the roof, other for sunroof tray and other salvageable panels, £800 to be blasted originally, and about 200quid on just epoxy primer, and another grand in materials,

I know the owner so have been ''gentle'' with him, But deadlines can't be stuck to, Its impossible to focus on solely one car for so long, It'll be the guts of 16-17weeks of long hours spread over a year from last march,

The only time a shell is fully honest is when its Fully blasted, I won't give a final Quote till all its clothes are off,

It costs a lot to do right, But I've seen every inch of this shell and can vouch that's its a rust-free Ford! Which all in all will stand the owner 2-3grand less then what a similar one would cost - But it will last another 20-30years easily now and be worth a lot more then,

I've personally stripped and crushed two quite rare cars of my own due to rust, Even though I could of fixed both to as new condition - I simply Don't have time to do my own, The wreck of a shed parked amongst all the freshly repaired cars is mine

I learnt my trade doing chassis repairs, I've been cutting and replacing sections of body work for nearly 13years - I'd wanna be half decent by now eh!

Is it worth it? - Barely ... I make a lot more doing normal(to the trade) work, But I do enjoy reviving scrap, And they spread the word of the quality of your work,

I also have a 3.0s mk3 capri tucked away for a customer who was feeling the pinch on funds too much, A lot of man hours have went into it, It'll be completed once this ones done, I'd expect that to stand the owner about 12k before it has wheels on it again, But again it'll be worth 20-30k complete and will be die straight and in better then showroom condition, That image and dollar, dollar bills is what I take away

[paintman]

Blue Oval84 said:

Anyway, I pulled the carpet up as I was worried about how long this weird leak may have been going on for (previous owner garaged it and was a low miles user).
It's not pretty under there, one area has rotted through completely, and another is so rotten I'm sure it's all rust and no metal. The rest of the front passenger floor is bubbling up in all manner of places.

If it's any consolation I made the same mistake with an Escort estate in the early 80s. Just over four years old, one owner - an elderly couple who did little mileage & always kept it in a garage. Rotten as a pear, floors, sills & a few other areas. Problem with it being garaged was being put away wet resulting in condensation throughout & Ford's lack of underseal/protection etc in the 70s.

[Peanut Gallery]

Sorry to hear you have reached the end with that car. I agree, painful to do, but that was a lot of tin-worm, and the only way to do it is properly, which costs proper cash..

Fingers crossed you find another project to take on with a lot less rust in the future!

[DKS]

That's a shame. I've had the passenger floor area rot out completely twice now on my 1988 Astra before I found the leak. Seam sealer dried out after 25 years and let water in behind the carpet (so I did't notice) and absolutely wrecked the floor so bad the first time the wishbone mount broke off the floor.
I had a bare metal repsray/ resto 3 years ago and had this done:



After over £3k all I'm left with is this:



And it will absolutely not be worth any money, ever. 230k miles now, too. And I think the floor has got water in it again. I've got close to throwing in the towel but I just can't but it down whilst it keeps on chugging. Plus the wife (it was her wedding car) won't even hear of it. I bought it when I was an apprentice back in 1999.
Rust never sleeps though.

[Kitchski]

Sorry to hear of your woes. It's kind of what I was trying to allude to on my BX thread. There are ALWAYS un-seen bits that pop up to bite you on the arse, so you have to go in with an 'In for a penny, in for a pound' kind of attitude. Not easy if you're working to a budget!

Likewise, not easy for the bodyshop. Say they start a job and find a load more work. What do they do? Do they tell you? If you say "Ok, sort that too, I will find the funds" then great, but you might not. You (not you personally, just figuratively) might say "But you quoted xxxx", something the bodyshop couldn't have known when quoting so couldn't have allowed for. And, if you tell them to just do the bits you wanted doing as you can't afford the other bits, then you know you've still got lots of problems underneath. If they don't tell you, either because they're being shifty, or because they're worried what your reaction will be, your outcome is the same.

The bodyshop can't afford to fix the additional problems for free, and you the customer might not be able to pay for the additional problems to be fixed. So you either go all, or nothing, and that's the point I was (badly) trying to make on the BX thread. That BX, worth possibly £2k at most once it's finished, would be in for about £8,000-£10,000 of work now (if it was a paying job), including the paint job. I could have kept it down, but that means I'd have had to turn a blind eye to areas I know need work, and if you're not doing it all properly, what's the point?

[hornetrider]

Love the tales of woe in this thread

Sorry to hear of your bad luck op - keep smiling

[Blue Oval84]

Kitchski said:

The bodyshop can't afford to fix the additional problems for free, and you the customer might not be able to pay for the additional problems to be fixed.

Yeah that's why I got straight onto the bodyshop to avoid this cropping up during the work, I had a feeling they wouldn't have spotted it as the actual hole is very small, and the rest of the damage is hidden by carpet.

Thanks for the continued moral support guys, and it's reassuring to see that I'm not the only one

Going to stick to younger, better rustproofed cars for a while, I just don't have the energy to put into anything that could throw this level of trouble up, not for a daily driver.

Plan is hopefully to spend a while paying off my current loan and then go on the hunt for a MK4 2.5T perhaps. It's all a bit up in the air really.

[Kitchski]

Blue Oval84 said:

Yeah that's why I got straight onto the bodyshop to avoid this cropping up during the work, I had a feeling they wouldn't have spotted it as the actual hole is very small, and the rest of the damage is hidden by carpet.

Thanks for the continued moral support guys, and it's reassuring to see that I'm not the only one

Going to stick to younger, better rustproofed cars for a while, I just don't have the energy to put into anything that could throw this level of trouble up, not for a daily driver.

Plan is hopefully to spend a while paying off my current loan and then go on the hunt for a MK4 2.5T perhaps. It's all a bit up in the air really.

Makes sense to put cards on the table as early as possible.

The older stuff is alright, but you need to buy something that's solid to start with, and if you're not confident enough to find it, you need to find someone who is to go with you. And then once you've got it, more rustproofing! An ST200 isn't out of bounds, but you might need to dig deeper next time. Mind you, a mk4 2.5T Titanium X is a lovely thing.

[carinaman]

Most of us have battled with rust. The thread has led to some interesting and revealing posts.

[LankyLegoHead]

A lot of people slagging the OP off in here, and its just not on. I wouldn't spend the money myself, no, but if he likes the car enough to do so then fair play! I say do it, keep it for years and never let go! Then you technically won't lose money....