RE: Tesla Model S: PH Carpool

[kambites]

krallicious said:

It's a 6 hour drive. I'm sure most could manage that.

I could manage it, but there's no way I would unless someone was holding a gun to my head.

[ORD]

AlexKing said:

ORD said:

Almost an hour of charging en route to get from London to Glasgow? A diesel could go there and back without any refuelling.

Could YOU go there and back without any refuelling?

I would take the train!

If I were driving, it would depend on the car. In a comfortable car designed for motorway driving, I expect that I would stop once to have a walk around and a snack. In a less comfortable car, I might stop twice.

[AlexKing]

krallicious said:

AlexKing said:

ORD said:

Almost an hour of charging en route to get from London to Glasgow? A diesel could go there and back without any refuelling.

Could YOU go there and back without any refuelling?

It's a 6 hour drive. I'm sure most could manage that.

It's 824 miles there and back, London to Glasgow. I think plod might have something to say about you averaging 137mph up and down the M6.

Even if I'm charitable and think that you meant just one way, while I'm sure most of us could drive 412 miles non-stop, doing it just to prove a point about electric cars is a bit silly, and the vast majority of people don't spend their days charging non-stop up and down the M6. If, like most of us, you make most of your longest trips as a family, it's utterly impossible to get away with stopping for less than an hour over those distances anyway.

[kambites]

AlexKing said:

If, like most of us, you make most of your longest trips as a family, it's utterly impossible to get away with stopping for less than an hour over those distances anyway.

With our toddler in the car the longest stint we can manage is about an hour, followed by at least half an hour of toddling around a service station. So on a 400 mile trip I'd expect at least two hours stationary over at least four separate stops.

Obviously not every has children, but families are a pretty big market for model-3 and model-S sized cars.

[ORD]

I would be very surprised if the Model S spends much time being used as a family car. Every single one that I have seen has had one occupant: a middle-aged man. It is a exec barge, not a family car.

[RobDickinson]

Not dissimilar to the same level BMW or Lexadies

[krallicious]

bertie said:

krallicious said:

It's a 6 hour drive. I'm sure most could manage that.

London to Glasgow and back in 6 hours, that's impressive!

Look if you're regularly doing 250 mile trips it's not the car for you, but most folks don't, I certainly don't.

If I do 100 miles that's a long one for me and that's not a problem.

Oh, I read it as a one way trip.

[ZesPak]

ORD said:

I would be very surprised if the Model S spends much time being used as a family car. Every single one that I have seen has had one occupant: a middle-aged man. It is a exec barge, not a family car.

?
Every one I know that owns one uses it as their "big" family car.
Of course, in the morning, they all take it to work. But that's no different to every other car out there, including zafiras and espaces, is it?

Nice article, the only thing I have to mention is this:

article said:

I haven't noticed any increase in my home electricity bills as yet, but I reckon it will cost me around 10 per cent of what I was paying for in diesel or petrol previously.

That would surprise me very much. I did the calculation and for me the Tesla costs 30%-50% per mile to charge compared to a contemporary car by for example Merc or BMW.
It's still "just" one third to half as much, but far from "nearly nothing".

[Mike_C]

I think people are getting really hung up on the range thing without thinking about it realistically. Most peoples’ commute is 15-25 miles each way, so any Model S (70/85/90) would be able to do ~3 days’ of commuting plus some additional running around without charging up.

At the other end of the spectrum, I have a much longer than average commute; 85 miles each way, which I do at least twice a week. I can go there and back, driving as fast as you safely can on a public road, with no concerns about booting it off the lights (or anywhere else) in terms of range, on a single charge. So again, no problem.

Taking it even further, a mate and I went to Glasgow in the Tesla, leaving the Midlands at 8:00 and arriving at Glasgow airport at 15:00 to pick up the missus and her friend (who flew up from London). That’s a distance of over 300 miles, which google maps suggests would take 5 - 5.5 hours non-stop. We did it in 7 hours, cruising along at a steady 75mph (no point getting there any earlier as their flight didn’t land until 14:40), stopping a couple of times on the way for lunch and a toilet break, and to charge up. We stopped once at Warrington (15-20 mins), once at Gretna (about 20-30 mins for lunch) and decided to top up again for 10-15 minutes at Abington, even though we didn’t need to, but as we had time to spare, so why not. We then spent 4 days skiing and snowboarding in Scotland, driving round various resorts and topping up overnight at the hotels/B&B’s along the way. So I really don’t get the argument that you couldn’t possibly drive long distances in the car, or travel in areas without fast charging either.

Yes it currently takes a bit more planning, but the sat nav does that for you. And yes, it takes a bit more time than if you were taking a big diesel with 600 miles range, but that’s a very specific and rare requirement and is assuming you don’t take breaks and getting there in the minimum possible time is THE most important factor. If you only do this type of journey once, twice a year, then the positives of having a Model S for the rest of the year more than make up for it, in my opinion.

ZesPak said:

That would surprise me very much. I did the calculation and for me the Tesla costs 30%-50% per mile to charge compared to a contemporary car by for example Merc or BMW. It's still "just" one third to half as much, but far from "nearly nothing".

For me I was spending around £80-£90/week on fuel, I calculate that I will be spending around £8-£10/week on electricity - although as I said, I haven't actually noticed this in either electricity bill yet!

[pthelazyjourno]

unsprung said:

I take perhaps a different view: Such virtualisation is at the core of the Tesla business model.

Forget the aging satnavs which most car owners are saddled with! Tesla take a holistic view: Let's continuously update and freshen the entire ownership and driving experience; and let's do this overnight, over-the-air, without need to visit a dealership.

This is a worldview that is iterative and familiar to software developers like Musk. It's also visible in our increasingly application-driven and cloud-based "flows" -- at work, school, and at home.

A Tesla car is platform. And Tesla sees its role as one of cocreation and the ongoing provision of content and experiences.

More inclined to think Tesla took the cheapest route - it's a lot cheaper to make a touchscreen than countless, different shaped, different sized buttons, and a lot easier to avoid questions on quality and feel while you're at it.

Personally think it's a massive liability, and will have more morons looking away from the road simply attempting to adjust the heating as you simply can't do anything by feel alone.

Not an issue in the long term, definitely an issue at the moment. Curious as to whether customers will ever try blaming Tesla in the event of an accident when doing something simple with touchscreen interface.

[BlackPrince]

ORD said:

I don't get it.

It's not a town car because most people who live in big cities do not have a garage or any other option for home charging.

It's not a motorway mile muncher because it cant do more than about 200 miles at motorway speeds. Almost an hour of charging en route to get from London to Glasgow? A diesel could go there and back without any refuelling.

It's not a fun car because it weighs 2 tonnes, has numb steering and handles like a bus on twisty roads.

What's the point? Just 0-60 pub bragging? Arent we all a bit old for that?

I test drove a P85 a couple of years ago and in the corners it wasn't far off my 2016 Subaru STI. Not saying my Scoob is some sort of gift from the handling gods but you can take that for what its worth.

Those of you who have a problem with the Model S (fatboy) really need to go bl00dy drive one. My daily driver for several years was a Ducati Multistrada, which I piloted through Irish rain and snow. Now its the Subaru, and i STILL find the Tesla a relatively engaging drive. And yes, I can definitely see the appeal to Autopilot. Anyone who doesn't, no matter if they're Jay Leno or Marc Marquez or Nico Rosberg, is kindof an idiot - driving a car is boring a lot of the time and if a car can drive itself thats brilliant

[kambites]

ORD said:

I would be very surprised if the Model S spends much time being used as a family car. Every single one that I have seen has had one occupant: a middle-aged man. It is a exec barge, not a family car.

I know two owners, both of whom have families; both are used primarily for short-distance commuting but any long trips would have children in the car.

The model-3 is probably more likely to be bought purely as a family car though, just because it's cheaper.

[ORD]

There must be something wrong with the Suburu

I have no interest in driving a Tesla (or any other huge saloon), but all the reviews from credible journalists are very lukewarm about its handling and say it has numb steering. None of that really matters in a motorway cruiser, which is why I think the Tesla makes sense (if at all) as a mile muncher.

[kambites]

ORD said:

I have no interest in driving a Tesla (or any other huge saloon), but all the reviews from credible journalists are very lukewarm about its handling and say it has numb steering. None of that really matters in a motorway cruiser, which is why I think the Tesla makes sense (if at all) as a mile muncher.

That's the thing isn't it. It's a huge saloon car; for people who have no interest in huge saloon cars it's not an interesting car. You don't buy a diesel S-class or A8 for its steering feel so it seems an odd thing for journalists to criticise in the Model-S.

I think from a dynamic point of view the model-3 is going to have a slightly tougher time because the competition are more focussed that way; but I still suspect an absolutely tiny proportion of potential buyers will either know or care.

[smokey31]

Fire99 said:

Thanks for that.. What about charging times on route? Do you know what range you would gain if for argument sake you stopped at a motorway services for an hour with it on charge?

London to Keswick is about 320 miles (which I've done in a mid-range diesel) so I'd be interested if that would be feasible in a Tesla..

charging on route is ok, a 1hr stop would get you a full charge, but it would be better to do to smaller stops of say 20 mins. You would actually get more charge that way, as the charging rate drops as the battery reaches capacity.

getting from london to keswick would be no problem.

[AC43]

ORD said:

I don't get it.

It's not a town car because most people who live in big cities do not have a garage or any other option for home charging.

I see loads in London. Wealthy people living in and around London often have large properties with plenty of off street parking. According to my eyes they are chopping in the ubiquitous black RR variants for these.

[fatboy b]

Mike_C said:

For me I was spending around £80-£90/week on fuel, I calculate that I will be spending around £8-£10/week on electricity - although as I said, I haven't actually noticed this in either electricity bill yet!

So you're saving about £13K over 3 years on fuel, but spent £40K more for the car than it's really worth (compared to an XFR - same market segment).

Sorry, but that still makes no sense to me, and then you have to factor in the extra planning for charging.

[AC43]

fatboy b said:

Mike_C said:

For me I was spending around £80-£90/week on fuel, I calculate that I will be spending around £8-£10/week on electricity - although as I said, I haven't actually noticed this in either electricity bill yet!

So you're saving about £13K over 3 years on fuel, but spent £40K more for the car than it's really worth (compared to an XFR - same market segment).
.

I though the real target was company leasers - strong residuals, low BIK, low monthly payments and so on.

[AnotherClarkey]

fatboy b said:

So you're saving about £13K over 3 years on fuel, but spent £40K more for the car than it's really worth (compared to an XFR - same market segment).

Sorry, but that still makes no sense to me, and then you have to factor in the extra planning for charging.

At the end of the day I have zero desire to own an XFR but strong want for a model S.

[fatboy b]

AnotherClarkey said:

fatboy b said:

So you're saving about £13K over 3 years on fuel, but spent £40K more for the car than it's really worth (compared to an XFR - same market segment).

Sorry, but that still makes no sense to me, and then you have to factor in the extra planning for charging.

At the end of the day I have zero desire to own an XFR but strong want for a model S.

It was a comparison to a car in the same market segment. It couuld be a 5-series, or A6 or similar. The point is is that the Tesla is £40K over it's worth.