Has modern supercar ownership become NAFF and irrelevant?
Discussion
I have owned various cars - from the barely runnable to entry level supercars (f430/gallardo) so hopefully can share an informed opinion.
All cars get driven by knobs, I've never let public/forum opinion sway my buying behaviour.
All modern day cars are fast and a breeze to drive - if that's an issue don't buy a modern car.
Ask yourself if the car is the issue or if something more underlying is amiss in your life that is causing you to feel disenfranchised.
Personally I don't get classics, maybe that will change as I get older. The thing that annoyed me with super cars and things like the 6GT3 is the harsh ride and the pre-planning to avoid big speed humps and multi storey parking.
If you want something special just but a 996 GT2 or GT3 or a CSL or a TVR Sagaris.
All cars get driven by knobs, I've never let public/forum opinion sway my buying behaviour.
All modern day cars are fast and a breeze to drive - if that's an issue don't buy a modern car.
Ask yourself if the car is the issue or if something more underlying is amiss in your life that is causing you to feel disenfranchised.
Personally I don't get classics, maybe that will change as I get older. The thing that annoyed me with super cars and things like the 6GT3 is the harsh ride and the pre-planning to avoid big speed humps and multi storey parking.
If you want something special just but a 996 GT2 or GT3 or a CSL or a TVR Sagaris.
I'm not sure I'm entirely qualified to comment, given I'm attempting to become "one of these YouTube lot" (although with a bit of a different aim), here are a couple of thoughts from someone of the "younger generation" (20s).
1. You're right, modern cars have become fast to the point where they are unexciting at LEGAL speeds. It's difficult to find a car that can be genuinely enjoyed at NSL on a lot of roads. Much of this is going to be the fact that huge amounts of attention is paid to NVH now.
2. Speed is very easy now, this links in with the above. But things like DCT gearboxes etc.. have meant that there's very little effort required for immense speed. You mention the 355. That you need to get over 5,000rpm to get moving and then you've got that delightful manual (if you're lucky). But you can still enjoy a few gears without doing licence losing speeds. And the noise, who cars about the speed then?
3. FINANCE. Seriously. Finance. Every single car is sold on finance now. I've bought all my cars cash and getting a price out of a dealer can be a right chore! No-one wants to talk in straight numbers. Yeah, I know that's where the market is and where the money is made, but without these crazy finance deals you'd find that there would be a lot less 21 year olds with Lamborghinis out there.
4. Things like Pistonheads have made finding these cars that much easier - there's meets and events, etc... personally I think it's great. I've missed the days of being able to do 130mph all the way from London to Scotch corner and not even worry, so I'm just going to enjoy the amazing stuff we have here. And as for the ridiculous content online, we don't need to watch it.
Oh, and that video from Knightsbridge, I used to drive through there on a weekly basis for about four years. Never once saw anything that bad. London is a very special case in nearly every way. Try starting a thread on how ludicrous it is trying to find a nice 3-bed house for less than half a million quid, you'll get a very different opinion depending on where the poster is!
1. You're right, modern cars have become fast to the point where they are unexciting at LEGAL speeds. It's difficult to find a car that can be genuinely enjoyed at NSL on a lot of roads. Much of this is going to be the fact that huge amounts of attention is paid to NVH now.
2. Speed is very easy now, this links in with the above. But things like DCT gearboxes etc.. have meant that there's very little effort required for immense speed. You mention the 355. That you need to get over 5,000rpm to get moving and then you've got that delightful manual (if you're lucky). But you can still enjoy a few gears without doing licence losing speeds. And the noise, who cars about the speed then?
3. FINANCE. Seriously. Finance. Every single car is sold on finance now. I've bought all my cars cash and getting a price out of a dealer can be a right chore! No-one wants to talk in straight numbers. Yeah, I know that's where the market is and where the money is made, but without these crazy finance deals you'd find that there would be a lot less 21 year olds with Lamborghinis out there.
4. Things like Pistonheads have made finding these cars that much easier - there's meets and events, etc... personally I think it's great. I've missed the days of being able to do 130mph all the way from London to Scotch corner and not even worry, so I'm just going to enjoy the amazing stuff we have here. And as for the ridiculous content online, we don't need to watch it.
Oh, and that video from Knightsbridge, I used to drive through there on a weekly basis for about four years. Never once saw anything that bad. London is a very special case in nearly every way. Try starting a thread on how ludicrous it is trying to find a nice 3-bed house for less than half a million quid, you'll get a very different opinion depending on where the poster is!
t just sitting in one, let alone owning one.Not that I'm fortunate enough to have owned one, nor look set to be in the future. But I would say yes!
In my childhood years supercars were draw dropping, rarely seen and the complete dream for me to aspire to. Could be the increase in social media that's made these cars more openly visible to everyone I suppose. Supercar culture to me in the 90's and early 00's was the business tycoon in the posh end of town sticking 1000's of miles on it and driving it for the purpose of being an absolute car nut. These days supercar culture is importing your vehicle via wagon to London and driving up to young kids and revving the nuts off your £6,000 exhaust system. I would dare to say that if you asked half, if not more of the supercar owners in this age how their vehicle actually works, or how to change the brake pads they would have to use the phone a friend life-line, scratching their noggin in the process.
I live up north, in the last 6 months alone I have seen well over 50 supercars in person, majority Lamborghinis and McLarens, go back 10 years in the same city and I wouldn't of seen 1 in the same time frame.
If I had the money, I would be a supercar owner for sure, several In fact, but I sure as hell would not frequent London with it.
In my childhood years supercars were draw dropping, rarely seen and the complete dream for me to aspire to. Could be the increase in social media that's made these cars more openly visible to everyone I suppose. Supercar culture to me in the 90's and early 00's was the business tycoon in the posh end of town sticking 1000's of miles on it and driving it for the purpose of being an absolute car nut. These days supercar culture is importing your vehicle via wagon to London and driving up to young kids and revving the nuts off your £6,000 exhaust system. I would dare to say that if you asked half, if not more of the supercar owners in this age how their vehicle actually works, or how to change the brake pads they would have to use the phone a friend life-line, scratching their noggin in the process.
I live up north, in the last 6 months alone I have seen well over 50 supercars in person, majority Lamborghinis and McLarens, go back 10 years in the same city and I wouldn't of seen 1 in the same time frame.
If I had the money, I would be a supercar owner for sure, several In fact, but I sure as hell would not frequent London with it.
I've never owned or driven a "supercar". A small, small engined petrol car can be great fun.. without the attention / cost / scraping speed bumps that often go with having a higher performance car. Yesterday I was following a Nissan Micra along a twisty NSL country road near home - it was making great progress and the owner evidently enjoying his drive.
An MX-5 - any of the MK1 -> current is very tempting.
An MX-5 - any of the MK1 -> current is very tempting.
Agree entirely.
At school i used to think a yellow lambo was great. Now, id genuinely rather be in a blue 5 series than a new yellow lambo. Far too ott.
Plus, in the north, you tend to see a rented supercar being revved and the owner has some cheap knock off gucci shoes etc.
Theres something far more satisfying about a new 7 series and just going about your business.
At school i used to think a yellow lambo was great. Now, id genuinely rather be in a blue 5 series than a new yellow lambo. Far too ott.
Plus, in the north, you tend to see a rented supercar being revved and the owner has some cheap knock off gucci shoes etc.
Theres something far more satisfying about a new 7 series and just going about your business.
Murcielago_Boy, Bloody good original post. I think you have summed up the entire scene. Even if I had the means I wouldn't buy a single new supercar now. Classics, or borderline classics, are the way forward. Also there are some amazing project cars, conversions, plus one off customs out there. So many truly cool vehicles to be had, which have nothing to do with looking like a city boy, footballer, WAG, or sad Instagram tool. It simply takes a little imagination.
ORD said:
130mph on an NSL road before it becomes an interesting drive? You could not make up some of the turd people come out with on here.
The OP is of course 100% right.
It depends on the car and the road. My CLS would induce sleep at higher speeds than that. The OP is of course 100% right.
I honestly now firmly believe that low weight, low COG, lower power cars are really the holy grail. Never has the time been more right for cars of this nature. I've owned all sorts and these sort of cars are the only thing I'll be driving from now on.
k-ink said:
It depends on the car and the road. My CLS would induce sleep at higher speeds than that.
I honestly now firmly believe that low weight, low COG, lower power cars are really the holy grail. Never has the time been more right for cars of this nature. I've owned all sorts and these sort of cars are the only thing I'll be driving from now on.
Agree mostly. My frustration with really low powered caterhams or mx5's is the ability to overtake quickly I honestly now firmly believe that low weight, low COG, lower power cars are really the holy grail. Never has the time been more right for cars of this nature. I've owned all sorts and these sort of cars are the only thing I'll be driving from now on.
johnwilliams77 said:
Agree mostly. My frustration with really low powered caterhams or mx5's is the ability to overtake quickly
180-200bhp in a lightweight is probably a real sweet spot. More than enough to have a play with revving the engine out properly, and going up through the gears to make progress. Yet not daft enough to land you in serious trouble. Working the car is a lot of fun. Also in the right sort of car it can be fun just cruising along. Drop the top, enjoy the steering, carving through corners with finesse instead of battering through them. I've had loads of fun just bumbling along in my mk1 MX5 recently. I will be getting it tuned up by Scuzzle Motorsport. However I will likely spend more money on NA tuning to a *sensible* level, rather than getting loads more power with forced induction for the same outlay. I don't want to end up with a car which required daft speeds to get the most out of it. I want to love every second of driving it at all speeds - low and higher.
k-ink said:
180-200bhp in a lightweight is probably a real sweet spot. More than enough to have a play with revving the engine out properly, and going up through the gears to make progress. Yet not daft enough to land you in serious trouble. Working the car is a lot of fun.
Also in the right sort of car it can be fun just cruising along. Drop the top, enjoy the steering, carving through corners with finesse instead of battering through them. I've had loads of fun just bumbling along in my mk1 MX5 recently. I will be getting it tuned up by Scuzzle Motorsport. However I will likely spend more money on NA tuning to a *sensible* level, rather than getting loads more power with forced induction for the same outlay. I don't want to end up with a car which required daft speeds to get the most out of it. I want to love every second of driving it at all speeds - low and higher.
Agree on both accountsAlso in the right sort of car it can be fun just cruising along. Drop the top, enjoy the steering, carving through corners with finesse instead of battering through them. I've had loads of fun just bumbling along in my mk1 MX5 recently. I will be getting it tuned up by Scuzzle Motorsport. However I will likely spend more money on NA tuning to a *sensible* level, rather than getting loads more power with forced induction for the same outlay. I don't want to end up with a car which required daft speeds to get the most out of it. I want to love every second of driving it at all speeds - low and higher.
I also have a mk1 mx5. It is a lot easier to run and accept when you have something else a bit quicker. For me, mx5 is just simple roof off motoring and wouldn't want to go that far again in it
Just watching commando on film 4 now, with the spiv driving his yellow 930 carrera. Also a touch of nostalgia, remembering the excitement at seeing such a car on tv in the 80's, (assuming I had been allowed to stay up that late). Back then there were no entry level models to dilute the brand, and an almost complete lack of such vehicles on the road, outside London you basically never saw them. A boring segment by William Woolard & co on the old top gear was about it.
A refreshing thread, debated well.
It's a recurring theme of mine (and plenty of the chaps in the barge threads) and I've been banging the drum for a while.
Let's consider the facts.
Whatever you drive, you get used to the power and speed, whatever it is. The initial wow-isn't-this-fabulously-fast thing wears off. Familiarity breeds contempt.
Real-world driving in the UK can't be about outright speed. Even in the sparse beauty of the North Yorkshire Moors, the abundance of Safety Camera vans, dawdling tourists, peletons of cyclists and the relentless stigmatising of motoring have conspired to prick the consciences of all but the most thoughtless drivers and slow us down.
The image of the Supercar today has changed too. The picture below illustrates, for me at least, the epitome of the suave Supercar driver of the 70's which was the golden era for these machines.
These days, they attract negative stereotypes with good reason. Whether imported and driven with impunity around the capital, or blasted around the mill towns along the M62 by half wits, the style, glamour and sense of purpose has gone.
Sadly, my 12 year old car-mad son doesn't hanker after one; he'd like something he describes as "cooler" - more sophisticated , possibly something older.
Anyway, a recent discussion involving a road test on PH I contributed to some years ago highlighted the supreme ability of the then-new A45 AMG. I thought it sad that there was just no real world fun.
Each to there own of course, but don't forget to have fun...
It's a recurring theme of mine (and plenty of the chaps in the barge threads) and I've been banging the drum for a while.
Let's consider the facts.
Whatever you drive, you get used to the power and speed, whatever it is. The initial wow-isn't-this-fabulously-fast thing wears off. Familiarity breeds contempt.
Real-world driving in the UK can't be about outright speed. Even in the sparse beauty of the North Yorkshire Moors, the abundance of Safety Camera vans, dawdling tourists, peletons of cyclists and the relentless stigmatising of motoring have conspired to prick the consciences of all but the most thoughtless drivers and slow us down.
The image of the Supercar today has changed too. The picture below illustrates, for me at least, the epitome of the suave Supercar driver of the 70's which was the golden era for these machines.
These days, they attract negative stereotypes with good reason. Whether imported and driven with impunity around the capital, or blasted around the mill towns along the M62 by half wits, the style, glamour and sense of purpose has gone.
Sadly, my 12 year old car-mad son doesn't hanker after one; he'd like something he describes as "cooler" - more sophisticated , possibly something older.
Anyway, a recent discussion involving a road test on PH I contributed to some years ago highlighted the supreme ability of the then-new A45 AMG. I thought it sad that there was just no real world fun.
Each to there own of course, but don't forget to have fun...
996TT02 said:
Fresh Prince said:
TREMAiNE said:
I agree completely.
I drive a Boxster S and sometimes I even think that has too much power to have fun on the road (having loved my MK1 MX5 which you could safely and legally push)... I can't begin to imagine what a Supercar would be like on the streets.
I save most of my 'spirited driving' for the track where I can just have fun.
This is why I've kept my mk1 MX-5 whilst a Boxster S passes through the household. During the first year, I thought that the MX-5 was hands-down more "fun". Then I realised that the Boxster is also "fun", but the limits are so much higher so it takes much more to reveal the fun side. The mind boggles at what supercars today must be like on today's roads. Won't stop me getting one if I am lucky enough to do so one day.I drive a Boxster S and sometimes I even think that has too much power to have fun on the road (having loved my MK1 MX5 which you could safely and legally push)... I can't begin to imagine what a Supercar would be like on the streets.
I save most of my 'spirited driving' for the track where I can just have fun.
Got my eye on a new daily though, an S-Line A6 2.8 V6 for shed money!
I'll agree with you but I'd like to also say that it's not the fault of the cars, per se, but the culture of the cars and what appears to surround them these days. In your OP you mentioned the 488 a couple of times and in and of itself there's nothing wrong with the car; it's a deeply impressive thing. Unfortunately, it's only a deeply impressive thing when it's in the right setting and there just aren't many of those right settings these days. Sadly there appears to be an ever-growing, perhaps misguided belief that the right setting is in the middle of a heavily congested city.
Of course, all of this may just be my skewed perception of it but it just doesn't seem like people buy these cars for what they are but more for what they can attract, which seems to be hordes of 17-year old boys with cameras.
I'm fortunate enough to know a couple of genuine enthusiasts who have done well enough in life to be able to splurge on their automotive fantasies. I don't think either of them have a car in their collection made after 2007, with the majority being pre-2000. When they talk about their cars there's genuine excitement about what they are, their history, how they're built and all the really anal detail that's interesting to car nerds.
It just seems like the true enthusiast is a bit of a dying breed.
Of course, all of this may just be my skewed perception of it but it just doesn't seem like people buy these cars for what they are but more for what they can attract, which seems to be hordes of 17-year old boys with cameras.
I'm fortunate enough to know a couple of genuine enthusiasts who have done well enough in life to be able to splurge on their automotive fantasies. I don't think either of them have a car in their collection made after 2007, with the majority being pre-2000. When they talk about their cars there's genuine excitement about what they are, their history, how they're built and all the really anal detail that's interesting to car nerds.
It just seems like the true enthusiast is a bit of a dying breed.
Classic or lightweight + helicopter + something for getting about in locally. Race car/s or track car if one is into track driving.
Job done.
This is the problem really for me with the supercar in the modern world, it just doesn't really fit in anywhere for any logical need. Its not just London pretty much every major urban area in our country is drowning under the weight of traffic + crap infrastructure that hasn't even tried to keep up over the past 30 years. Even the nice country roads I have where I live are jammed full of traffic at commuter times, mid day you might get lucky or stuck behind tractors and OAPs.
Job done.
This is the problem really for me with the supercar in the modern world, it just doesn't really fit in anywhere for any logical need. Its not just London pretty much every major urban area in our country is drowning under the weight of traffic + crap infrastructure that hasn't even tried to keep up over the past 30 years. Even the nice country roads I have where I live are jammed full of traffic at commuter times, mid day you might get lucky or stuck behind tractors and OAPs.
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