RE: TDI the new PPI
Discussion
What am I to be compensated for ???????
Did I purchase the product based on the EU NOx test - NO
Did anyone else in the UK - Doubt it
Is the car more polluting for me or my Children - No
Will I loose resale value - Doubt it
Does the Fix make my car better - No - Worse
Did VAG lie to me or miss sell the car - No -
Are the quoted figures true - Yes - these are EU test figures. that were tested and published by the regulator.
Should we believe EU figures will be a true representation of product and its performance - No!!!
Yes what they did was wrong but this is a separate issue for the US and EU regulators. Not me or you!!
stinkspanner said:
My wife has an Audi that is affected by this, as was her previous car. I shall be encouraging her to join the class action, not because I particularly care about the emmisions, sticking it to VAG (fnarr fnarr), depreciation or hurt feelings. No, we have nursery fees to pay which are blooming expensive and this could go towards that should it be succesful
99.99999% of claimants will have the same kind of money grabbing intentions. It's f
k all to do with their conscience, if they were so concerned about the environment they wouldn't own a car to start with.
Mr2Mike said:
stinkspanner said:
My wife has an Audi that is affected by this, as was her previous car. I shall be encouraging her to join the class action, not because I particularly care about the emmisions, sticking it to VAG (fnarr fnarr), depreciation or hurt feelings. No, we have nursery fees to pay which are blooming expensive and this could go towards that should it be succesful
99.99999% of claimants will have the same kind of money grabbing intentions. It's fk all to do with their conscience, if they were so concerned about the environment they wouldn't own a car to start with.Their intentions were to maximise profit, appease the shareholders. In this instance they did so fraudulently.
And somehow you think the claimants are to be criticised?
Jonnny said:
So if VAG Group go bankrupt, is that one up for the people? And hundreds of thousands out of jobs..
Where do you draw the line though?The responsibility to the employees lies with VW, not with the people who are affected by their wrong doing.
You could make the same comment about any company that do bad things?
What if a chemical company is negligent/lies and does something that kills people, would it be ok for them to be put out of business or should we think about the employees?
Devil2575 said:
Jonnny said:
So if VAG Group go bankrupt, is that one up for the people? And hundreds of thousands out of jobs..
Where do you draw the line though?The responsibility to the employees lies with VW, not with the people who are affected by their wrong doing.
You could make the same comment about any company that do bad things?
What if a chemical company is negligent/lies and does something that kills people, would it be ok for them to be put out of business or should we think about the employees?
daveco said:
Mr2Mike said:
stinkspanner said:
My wife has an Audi that is affected by this, as was her previous car. I shall be encouraging her to join the class action, not because I particularly care about the emmisions, sticking it to VAG (fnarr fnarr), depreciation or hurt feelings. No, we have nursery fees to pay which are blooming expensive and this could go towards that should it be succesful
99.99999% of claimants will have the same kind of money grabbing intentions. It's fk all to do with their conscience, if they were so concerned about the environment they wouldn't own a car to start with.Their intentions were to maximise profit, appease the shareholders. In this instance they did so fraudulently.
And somehow you think the claimants are to be criticised?
Do the 'affected' cars function as normal? Yes
Do the 'affected' cars harm people in any way? No
What's the compensation for? A white lie? Please. What a bunch of first world "boo hoo, a big corporation lied to me" wimps.
This isn't faulty DBW pedals putting people through shop windows, or banks bankrupting people through malpractice.
What this is is America being a bunch of whiney b1tches about it, nothing more.
I'm struggling to see how all this has actually affected it's "victims". What are people trying to claim back for? I'd say a large proportion of consumers genuinely have't got a clue. But as soon as a potential payout becomes apparent, if you just so happened to have a diesel car that is viable for "compensation" and fits the criteria, then it's just pound-signs in their eyes and ka-ching noises in their ears.
Comparing this to what banks did with PPI seems very silly to me. Without a doubt, what VW did was cheat the system. But, as far as i can see, they didn't really cheat their customers. I'm not condoning their actions either but i'm just trying to be realistic. Getting hard proof that you have suffered a significant financial loss with any example of this would prove difficult i imagine.
Good luck to everyone, but i wouldn't expect much. I can see alot of environmentalists coming out of the wood-work all of a sudden though. I'm not sure you'd have a case there anyway with the demise of diesel being pushed by the Government in the not-too-distant future.
Comparing this to what banks did with PPI seems very silly to me. Without a doubt, what VW did was cheat the system. But, as far as i can see, they didn't really cheat their customers. I'm not condoning their actions either but i'm just trying to be realistic. Getting hard proof that you have suffered a significant financial loss with any example of this would prove difficult i imagine.
Good luck to everyone, but i wouldn't expect much. I can see alot of environmentalists coming out of the wood-work all of a sudden though. I'm not sure you'd have a case there anyway with the demise of diesel being pushed by the Government in the not-too-distant future.
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Do the 'affected' cars harm people in any way? No
Arguably yes - the EU set a target for NOx emissions, and VAG (plus other mfrs?) cheated their achievement of this target.So all those diesels out there in the real-world are kicking out more crap than they should be. And the young, the old and asthmatics ARE probably suffering as a result of it. Maybe not in immediately obvious or dramatic ways, but it's still harm...and it's cumulative.
It's the (almost-) tail end of the journey that started with the elimination of coal fires and the smog that blighted London and other big cities...
The one thing that everybody seems to be ignoring...
Are VW engineers uniquely incompetent and disingenuous?
Somehow, I doubt it. If they were, then all it would have taken was a single whistle-blower.
My gutfeel is that the US issues came about largely because VAG were one of the very few manufacturers to even attempt to sell diesels over there. Their emissions standards are VERY different to ours, for diesels, much stiffer.
Euro emission "defeat devices" are a different kettle of fish entirely.
Are VW engineers uniquely incompetent and disingenuous?
Somehow, I doubt it. If they were, then all it would have taken was a single whistle-blower.
My gutfeel is that the US issues came about largely because VAG were one of the very few manufacturers to even attempt to sell diesels over there. Their emissions standards are VERY different to ours, for diesels, much stiffer.
Euro emission "defeat devices" are a different kettle of fish entirely.
stinkspanner said:
My wife has an Audi that is affected by this, as was her previous car. I shall be encouraging her to join the class action, not because I particularly care about the emmisions, sticking it to VAG (fnarr fnarr), depreciation or hurt feelings. No, we have nursery fees to pay which are blooming expensive and this could go towards that should it be succesful
Bet you're the whiplashy sort as well.SuperchargedVR6 said:
daveco said:
Mr2Mike said:
stinkspanner said:
My wife has an Audi that is affected by this, as was her previous car. I shall be encouraging her to join the class action, not because I particularly care about the emmisions, sticking it to VAG (fnarr fnarr), depreciation or hurt feelings. No, we have nursery fees to pay which are blooming expensive and this could go towards that should it be succesful
99.99999% of claimants will have the same kind of money grabbing intentions. It's fk all to do with their conscience, if they were so concerned about the environment they wouldn't own a car to start with.Their intentions were to maximise profit, appease the shareholders. In this instance they did so fraudulently.
And somehow you think the claimants are to be criticised?
Do the 'affected' cars function as normal? Yes
Do the 'affected' cars harm people in any way? No
What's the compensation for? A white lie? Please. What a bunch of first world "boo hoo, a big corporation lied to me" wimps.
This isn't faulty DBW pedals putting people through shop windows, or banks bankrupting people through malpractice.
What this is is America being a bunch of whiney b1tches about it, nothing more.
Customers have every right to demand compensation. Their cars are likely worth considerably less because of all this.
Big GT said:
What am I to be compensated for ???????
Did I purchase the product based on the EU NOx test - NO
Did anyone else in the UK - Doubt it
Is the car more polluting for me or my Children - No
Will I loose resale value - Doubt it
Does the Fix make my car better - No - Worse
Did VAG lie to me or miss sell the car - No -
Are the quoted figures true - Yes - these are EU test figures. that were tested and published by the regulator.
Should we believe EU figures will be a true representation of product and its performance - No!!!
Yes what they did was wrong but this is a separate issue for the US and EU regulators. Not me or you!!
So, hypothetically, your 2013 Golf GTD is recalled, and comes out of the dealership slower and with a dip in MPG. You wouldn't want to be compensated for that?Did I purchase the product based on the EU NOx test - NO
Did anyone else in the UK - Doubt it
Is the car more polluting for me or my Children - No
Will I loose resale value - Doubt it
Does the Fix make my car better - No - Worse
Did VAG lie to me or miss sell the car - No -
Are the quoted figures true - Yes - these are EU test figures. that were tested and published by the regulator.
Should we believe EU figures will be a true representation of product and its performance - No!!!
Yes what they did was wrong but this is a separate issue for the US and EU regulators. Not me or you!!
Cotic said:
So, hypothetically, your 2013 Golf GTD is recalled, and comes out of the dealership slower and with a dip in MPG. You wouldn't want to be compensated for that?
This software rewrite doesn't necessarily affect performance though. We thought the Polo was slower when we got it back, but after the service it was fine. One ought to think in more general terms about pollution, if it is that which concerns you.
Alas that my youngest child attends a school which is too far away for her to walk (3miles).
This compels me to drive her there.
In those 3 miles, my (diesel, BTW) vehicle does not reach operating temperature at any point in the journey to or from School.
I doubt that it meets any of the NoX targets, stays in it's CO2 VED band or gets anywhere close to the manufacturer's urban mpg claims during that time.
This is surely true of nearly all vehicles under such conditions.
Whom should I be suing?
And will I get enough to buy a Tesla?
Alas that my youngest child attends a school which is too far away for her to walk (3miles).
This compels me to drive her there.
In those 3 miles, my (diesel, BTW) vehicle does not reach operating temperature at any point in the journey to or from School.
I doubt that it meets any of the NoX targets, stays in it's CO2 VED band or gets anywhere close to the manufacturer's urban mpg claims during that time.
This is surely true of nearly all vehicles under such conditions.
Whom should I be suing?
And will I get enough to buy a Tesla?
Tankrizzo said:
stinkspanner said:
My wife has an Audi that is affected by this, as was her previous car. I shall be encouraging her to join the class action, not because I particularly care about the emmisions, sticking it to VAG (fnarr fnarr), depreciation or hurt feelings. No, we have nursery fees to pay which are blooming expensive and this could go towards that should it be succesful
Bet you're the whiplashy sort as well.
havoc said:
Yourself, for being silly enough to buy a diesel for short urban journeys.
That is a good point though. How many people are out there that have a diesel but don't really need one? Despite what the Government pushed the public to buy, VW's response to many of these people trying to claim could be that they shouldn't have a diesel in the first place and would be far more suited to a petrol motor.
culpz said:
havoc said:
Yourself, for being silly enough to buy a diesel for short urban journeys.
That is a good point though. How many people are out there that have a diesel but don't really need one? Despite what the Government pushed the public to buy, VW's response to many of these people trying to claim could be that they shouldn't have a diesel in the first place and would be far more suited to a petrol motor.
culpz said:
Despite what the Government pushed the public to buy, VW's response to many of these people trying to claim could be that they shouldn't have a diesel in the first place and would be far more suited to a petrol motor.
Then those people could say they were mis-sold the car. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff