RE: 50 limits by the back door: PH Blog
Discussion
I still think many folk may be misunderstanding the point of these smart motorways. As far as I know, and I may be wrong, the variable limits are to ease congestion or prevent it from happening, not to make your journey home tortuously slow. It's all very well saying the traffic is light, but maybe it's light precisely because of the current speed limit in force?
I'm not trying to assert any facts, just saying it as I see it. I don't pretend to know much about traffic management, but I suspect neither do most commentators. I hate crawling along at 50mph too, but I'd rather that than be stationary for minutes at a time...if in fact that is the alternative.
But remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you
I'm not trying to assert any facts, just saying it as I see it. I don't pretend to know much about traffic management, but I suspect neither do most commentators. I hate crawling along at 50mph too, but I'd rather that than be stationary for minutes at a time...if in fact that is the alternative.
But remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you
MartyG1987 said:
I use the M62 most Friday last afternoons and they switch on the 60mph from Bradford to at least Leeds at about midday. It does seem a bit silly, traffic levels tend to vary but it does flow reasonably well.
My method of coping is just to set my cruise control to 2mph below the limit and accept that I can do feck all about it...
You are extremely lucky if it is as high as 60 mph.My method of coping is just to set my cruise control to 2mph below the limit and accept that I can do feck all about it...
I went through a period of hitting the m1/m62 junction at about 8.30pm. 95% of the times I was driving through there with about 3 other cars on 4 lanes of motorway, no queues on the slip roads, no signs of any issues at all and a bloody 40mph limit.
It annoys me how it sometimes seems like its the time of day rather than how busy it actually is. "Oh it's 8am we need to put a 40mph limit on now lads, who cares if the road is near empty for a change" (probably because everyone thinks there is no point in going the slightly longer way to work via a motorway to do the same speed as the short way)
Kenny Powers said:
I still think many folk may be misunderstanding the point of these smart motorways. As far as I know, and I may be wrong, the variable limits are to ease congestion or prevent it from happening, not to make your journey home tortuously slow. It's all very well saying the traffic is light, but maybe it's light precisely because of the current speed limit in force?
I guess you don't do much motorway driving do you? I'll speak out in favour - if only for the M5/M6 bit in Brum, before the managed mway there, that J 11/10/9/8 used to be shocking, pretty much any time of the day or night. You'd Even get Police doing rolling staggered drives to free up some space, that seemed mostly to be created by peope insisting on driving at 70 mph, right up to when it was stationary, then you'd sit in a tailback for several weeks.
I can remember leaving home to go to Manchester about 5AM and seeing the entire southbound M6 at the m5 split and up, gridlocked. At 5AM
OK, so now the traffic is only rolling at 30/40/50, but youre moving and making far better progress than doing 70 mph for a few minutes, then just grinding to a halt.
So in this case the motorway IS proving smarter than the drivers, because it's forcing a (lower) speed but it's constant rather than pulse, stop, pulse stop, which is how it was when all us (me included) driving Gods had it before.
I can't speak for other M ways as I only travel those infrequently.
I can remember leaving home to go to Manchester about 5AM and seeing the entire southbound M6 at the m5 split and up, gridlocked. At 5AM
OK, so now the traffic is only rolling at 30/40/50, but youre moving and making far better progress than doing 70 mph for a few minutes, then just grinding to a halt.
So in this case the motorway IS proving smarter than the drivers, because it's forcing a (lower) speed but it's constant rather than pulse, stop, pulse stop, which is how it was when all us (me included) driving Gods had it before.
I can't speak for other M ways as I only travel those infrequently.
techguyone said:
I'll speak out in favour - if only for the M5/M6 bit in Brum, before the managed mway there, that J 11/10/9/8 used to be shocking, pretty much any time of the day or night. You'd Even get Police doing rolling staggered drives to free up some space, that seemed mostly to be created by peope insisting on driving at 70 mph, right up to when it was stationary, then you'd sit in a tailback for several weeks.
I can remember leaving home to go to Manchester about 5AM and seeing the entire southbound M6 at the m5 split and up, gridlocked. At 5AM
OK, so now the traffic is only rolling at 30/40/50, but youre moving and making far better progress than doing 70 mph for a few minutes, then just grinding to a halt.
So in this case the motorway IS proving smarter than the drivers, because it's forcing a (lower) speed but it's constant rather than pulse, stop, pulse stop, which is how it was when all us (me included) driving Gods had it before.
I can't speak for other M ways as I only travel those infrequently.
I don't think the point a lot of people are making is that they are stupid and shouldn't exist, so I can't see why your comments would be out of turn. I think it's more that it seems they are too eager to lower the limit where not required or not monitor the situation closely enough to see when it has alleviated. Which in turn lowers people's faith in the system Although I am not familiar with where you are talking about, I do think they have their places and it sounds like one of them.I can remember leaving home to go to Manchester about 5AM and seeing the entire southbound M6 at the m5 split and up, gridlocked. At 5AM
OK, so now the traffic is only rolling at 30/40/50, but youre moving and making far better progress than doing 70 mph for a few minutes, then just grinding to a halt.
So in this case the motorway IS proving smarter than the drivers, because it's forcing a (lower) speed but it's constant rather than pulse, stop, pulse stop, which is how it was when all us (me included) driving Gods had it before.
I can't speak for other M ways as I only travel those infrequently.
Kenny Powers said:
I still think many folk may be misunderstanding the point of these smart motorways. As far as I know, and I may be wrong, the variable limits are to ease congestion or prevent it from happening, not to make your journey home tortuously slow. It's all very well saying the traffic is light, but maybe it's light precisely because of the current speed limit in force?
I'm not trying to assert any facts, just saying it as I see it. I don't pretend to know much about traffic management, but I suspect neither do most commentators. I hate crawling along at 50mph too, but I'd rather that than be stationary for minutes at a time...if in fact that is the alternative.
But remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you
There are two aspects, the one you mention and the manual override available for emergencies or other hazards. It's the latter that are being abused.I'm not trying to assert any facts, just saying it as I see it. I don't pretend to know much about traffic management, but I suspect neither do most commentators. I hate crawling along at 50mph too, but I'd rather that than be stationary for minutes at a time...if in fact that is the alternative.
But remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you
And whoever decided the approaching-temporary-roadworks-everybody-in-lane-3-at-40mph distance of huge proportions really needs a red hot poker up his arrus.
Despite all the hubub regarding this section of the M1, the truth is that this very technique has been used on the M42/M6 around Birmingham to effectively reduce the motorway speed limit to just 60mph for the last 3 years at least. There is no part of daylight hours where the lower limit is not in force.
IF and only if this camera enforced future has benefits to traffic flow then still; why do they need to be switched on 24/7? And we ought to be allowed higher limits when congestion is absent. Why do we have amongst the lowest speed limits in the EU with the most cameras - do we really need that?
Make things reasonable again: We can choose to use the road capacity at different times of day and NOT have to grind along at mind numbingly low speeds (yes even 70mph is FAR too slow for most people - 85 is more like it). Now we are looking at a future of ever increasing enforcement of ever lower limits (everywhere - not just the motorways) all the time. There has to be an economic impact...
Remember that an 80mph limit was indeed seriously considered not that long ago. Some people said that would mean more enforcement so leave it alone. They said (and it was true) that while 70mph is indeed far too slow for modern equipment in light traffic / good conditions the quid pro quo was you could kinda make progress when the traffic allowed as our police force allowed large amounts of discretion. Those days are over. Its 24/7 scammer enforcement now on empty or busy roads. Really do we HAVE to put up with this? We need something back from this s
t storm. As I recall the 80mph thing was shelved for some bizarre combination of a crash on a Derbyshire A road near the home of the neck-end transport minister and a sop to female voters (of whom a majority - although less than for males - still supported the 80mph proposals)!!!? - Go figure!
As a 30k miles PA driver I feel distinctly got at and totally ignored. These limits that are so much more enforced now than ever before, were 'made up' years ago. How can people be criminalised based on a whim? The whole balance of this is wrecked. I'm totally pissed off with it tbh.
And I still do occasionally enjoy a drive (parts of Scotland / North Yorks / Wales and obviously in other less Orwellian nations. Strangely enough, the money making potential (SAC grazing zones) of lots of great B roads is so low it's probably easier to make progress there now than it ever was. Not much use for actually going anywhere tho!
Make things reasonable again: We can choose to use the road capacity at different times of day and NOT have to grind along at mind numbingly low speeds (yes even 70mph is FAR too slow for most people - 85 is more like it). Now we are looking at a future of ever increasing enforcement of ever lower limits (everywhere - not just the motorways) all the time. There has to be an economic impact...
Remember that an 80mph limit was indeed seriously considered not that long ago. Some people said that would mean more enforcement so leave it alone. They said (and it was true) that while 70mph is indeed far too slow for modern equipment in light traffic / good conditions the quid pro quo was you could kinda make progress when the traffic allowed as our police force allowed large amounts of discretion. Those days are over. Its 24/7 scammer enforcement now on empty or busy roads. Really do we HAVE to put up with this? We need something back from this s
t storm. As I recall the 80mph thing was shelved for some bizarre combination of a crash on a Derbyshire A road near the home of the neck-end transport minister and a sop to female voters (of whom a majority - although less than for males - still supported the 80mph proposals)!!!? - Go figure!As a 30k miles PA driver I feel distinctly got at and totally ignored. These limits that are so much more enforced now than ever before, were 'made up' years ago. How can people be criminalised based on a whim? The whole balance of this is wrecked. I'm totally pissed off with it tbh.
And I still do occasionally enjoy a drive (parts of Scotland / North Yorks / Wales and obviously in other less Orwellian nations. Strangely enough, the money making potential (SAC grazing zones) of lots of great B roads is so low it's probably easier to make progress there now than it ever was. Not much use for actually going anywhere tho!
techguyone said:
I'll speak out in favour - if only for the M5/M6 bit in Brum, before the managed mway there, that J 11/10/9/8 used to be shocking, pretty much any time of the day or night. You'd Even get Police doing rolling staggered drives to free up some space, that seemed mostly to be created by peope insisting on driving at 70 mph, right up to when it was stationary, then you'd sit in a tailback for several weeks.
I can remember leaving home to go to Manchester about 5AM and seeing the entire southbound M6 at the m5 split and up, gridlocked. At 5AM
OK, so now the traffic is only rolling at 30/40/50, but youre moving and making far better progress than doing 70 mph for a few minutes, then just grinding to a halt.
So in this case the motorway IS proving smarter than the drivers, because it's forcing a (lower) speed but it's constant rather than pulse, stop, pulse stop, which is how it was when all us (me included) driving Gods had it before.
I can't speak for other M ways as I only travel those infrequently.
This has far more to do with people finally starting to use the M6 Toll than the Smart motorway!I can remember leaving home to go to Manchester about 5AM and seeing the entire southbound M6 at the m5 split and up, gridlocked. At 5AM
OK, so now the traffic is only rolling at 30/40/50, but youre moving and making far better progress than doing 70 mph for a few minutes, then just grinding to a halt.
So in this case the motorway IS proving smarter than the drivers, because it's forcing a (lower) speed but it's constant rather than pulse, stop, pulse stop, which is how it was when all us (me included) driving Gods had it before.
I can't speak for other M ways as I only travel those infrequently.
I regularly use the local M42 / M6 (non) smart motorways, they are a real pain to drive on, you do spend too much time looking at the speed signs and your speedo and other drivers reactions than driving smoothly according to the traffic and road conditions. I feel more stressed driving on these sections than the lower M42 and M40 which are (currently) free. I agree the system could work if it were properly managed, but it definitely isn't, the speeds are inconsistantly controlled so the traffic doesn't flow well at all. I think many accidents occur due to drivers frustration, poor concentration and focus on the system signs rather than the road and traffic around them! There's little or no advance warning as you approach slip roads on, often they show 40, 50, 60 so you think motorway is moving, then get onto a gridlocked motorway at near standstill with the signs above still showing 40, 50 or 60! The sign operators must be ignoring their screens to leave them onlike that....
I heard from a traffic police officer parked up at a Tescos near M42 that each set of gantry cameras allow just 15 seconds following a change to the speed signs.
I heard from a traffic police officer parked up at a Tescos near M42 that each set of gantry cameras allow just 15 seconds following a change to the speed signs.
It is happening everywhere, not just on the M1.
For the last 3 years or so the M3 has had a 50 average limit for over 15 miles while they turn it into a "Smart" (my ass) motorway! Well, on the few occasions it is actually open!
Can't help thinking that when it is actually finished 50 will be the highest limit ever posted - assuming I live long enough to see it finished!
When I get to J2 on the M3 and leave to join the M25 I can't remember seeing a limit higher than 50 posted on that until I am past Chertsey at J11 - or until J10.
But then at J10 I join the A3(M) Eastbound, and of course there is the 50 limit a bit before the Ace of Spades Underpass complete with camera - but worse than that there are now average cameras up to (and maybe beyond) Tolworth (hope they weren't there last Sunday)!
But why is it a 50 limit anyway - it never was when I had my old Cortina, Fiats, etc. and they coped with 70 so I am sure modern cars would manage!
And the M3 is a total nightmare just now. I use the J2 to J4 section a couple of times a week and on weekdays it always seems to be closed around 20.00. Tonight was a classic example - on the A3 at Cobham the gantry told me there was no HGV parking at Fleet Services, so I got on the M25 heading for the M3. Signs between J11 and J12 on the M25 told me I would get to the M3 at J12 in 3 minutes, but AFTER J12 the gantry said the M3 was closed from J2 to J4 - well thanks for that, brain-dead incompetents! I would have left at J12 and used back roads if I had known in time but ended up stuck on the hopeless A30. (Just hope those in charge aren't allowed to breed)! Or I could have just stayed on the A3 until the A31 then the A331, if only the signs on the A3 had told me the M3 was f shut! 
And it seems the M4 is about to get subjected to the same misery! (Thankfully I don't use it much now) but I can't see that going any better than the M3!
For the last 3 years or so the M3 has had a 50 average limit for over 15 miles while they turn it into a "Smart" (my ass) motorway! Well, on the few occasions it is actually open!
Can't help thinking that when it is actually finished 50 will be the highest limit ever posted - assuming I live long enough to see it finished!
When I get to J2 on the M3 and leave to join the M25 I can't remember seeing a limit higher than 50 posted on that until I am past Chertsey at J11 - or until J10.
But then at J10 I join the A3(M) Eastbound, and of course there is the 50 limit a bit before the Ace of Spades Underpass complete with camera - but worse than that there are now average cameras up to (and maybe beyond) Tolworth (hope they weren't there last Sunday)!
But why is it a 50 limit anyway - it never was when I had my old Cortina, Fiats, etc. and they coped with 70 so I am sure modern cars would manage!And the M3 is a total nightmare just now. I use the J2 to J4 section a couple of times a week and on weekdays it always seems to be closed around 20.00. Tonight was a classic example - on the A3 at Cobham the gantry told me there was no HGV parking at Fleet Services, so I got on the M25 heading for the M3. Signs between J11 and J12 on the M25 told me I would get to the M3 at J12 in 3 minutes, but AFTER J12 the gantry said the M3 was closed from J2 to J4 - well thanks for that, brain-dead incompetents! I would have left at J12 and used back roads if I had known in time but ended up stuck on the hopeless A30. (Just hope those in charge aren't allowed to breed)! Or I could have just stayed on the A3 until the A31 then the A331, if only the signs on the A3 had told me the M3 was f
shut! And it seems the M4 is about to get subjected to the same misery! (Thankfully I don't use it much now) but I can't see that going any better than the M3!
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