RE: No-ssan GT-R
Discussion
Trommel said:
A Skyline is Nissan's equivalent of a Vauxhall Omega. The only "legendary" one was the GT-R.
I'm sure Nissan have their reasons (particularly for the Japanese-market speed limiter and so on).
Don't be silly, they also made stuff like the GT-T (2500cc turbo 280 bhp RWD coupe) not exactly an Omega. The GT-R was just the top of the range of sporting saloons and coupes.I'm sure Nissan have their reasons (particularly for the Japanese-market speed limiter and so on).
Fiddlemesticks said:
Surely if you buy an imported GT-R you dont have a warranty, so have one imported, change the ECU with a Mines one and using the 15k saving to pay for any repairs.
simple.
Where's this £15k come from? The guy in the other article (first GTR in country or something) paid out just over £50k to import and the UK spec starts at around £56k?simple.
The warranty is 3 years, so would you run a car like this with £2k a year as a backup?
EDLT said:
The 112mph speed limiter was to keep the japanese government happy, I assumed its so you can speed enough to be fined. Although I'm not sure why they limit bikes to 186mph...
They don;t limit bikes to 186mph in Japan, all the Japanese 1000cc bike are illegal in Japan anyway, the 186mph limit was a gentleman's agreement in Euro to pre-empt the EU doing it for them.neon_fox said:
Don't forget BMW voiding people's warranty on the E36 M3 and CSL if they went on track (problems with engines, diffs and CSL wheels as I remember), together with Porsche's famous Ceramic brake disc warranty aversion on the GT3 ('been on track sir? ECU says you've done more than 100mph? No warranty for you I'm afraid...')
The CSL has never been subject to such warrenty restrictions, many dealers will fit AP brakes for you and are fully aware of the usage the cars get, certainly no issue with the CSl wheels either - pehaps you are thinking of Audi RS4 wheels?There was an issue with BMW refusing Steve Carter's claim on a normal M3 but that descision was reversed and BMW made a statement that track use was fine.
As for Porsche saying no warrenty for you if you've been over 100mph? I assume you just made that up? The only think to my knowledge they are interested in is rev range 2 activity (ie over revving).
m12_nathan said:
As for Porsche saying no warrenty for you if you've been over 100mph? I assume you just made that up? The only think to my knowledge they are interested in is rev range 2 activity (ie over revving).
I do love this site sometimes.
Porsche have NEVER voided a warranty on the basis of VMAX logged in the ECU. I know, because my Carrera has done 165mph in Germany, and then had a warranty claim honoured afterwards.
They have declined warrantiy claims on rev range 2 logs on the ECU (i.e engine has been over revved) for example by changing from fifth to second by accident.
What IS true, if that this sort of spy in the car technology is going to become much more prevalent. Aston Martin DB9s have a balck box recorder in them, so that when you crash, the cops and your insurers can see what you were doing prior to the accident.
The GTR looks like quite a car. But if big borther is watching whenever you use it, I personally don't want one. I am not a number, I am a free man.
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Saturday 9th February 18:23
Vesuvius 996 said:
What IS true, if that this sort of spy in the car technology is going to become much more prevalent. Aston Martin DB9s have a balck box recorder in them, so that when you crash, the cops and your insurers can see what you were doing prior to the accident.
As does just about *every* modern car on the road with ABS. ABS behavior, road speed and other parameters are all available for the previous ~30 secondsmugwump said:
Vesuvius 996 said:
What IS true, if that this sort of spy in the car technology is going to become much more prevalent. Aston Martin DB9s have a balck box recorder in them, so that when you crash, the cops and your insurers can see what you were doing prior to the accident.
As does just about *every* modern car on the road with ABS. ABS behavior, road speed and other parameters are all available for the previous ~30 secondsHowever a car with inbuilt GPS that logs your position wherever you go, not just the last 30 seconds (so it can tell if you're at an 'approved' track location or not)... you have to be
ing joking.I'd on principle reject any car that did this 'on my behalf' regardless... but if the GPS location history is recorded (don't know this, it will depend on the ECU software, but it will be possible if it's being used to check 'track' location for the speed limiter) then it will be available to any servicing agent. Any lawyers here (Soovy, though it isn't your field is it?) may be interested in whether this breaks the UK data protection act?
Not an expert on data protection but unless buying a GT-R involves signing a contract to say that your location will be tracked at all times and given to Nissan servicing agents and their representatives, and potential partners who may have advertising offers of interest to you given your location, etc. (absolutely bound to happen) - is this sort of thing actually legal here in the UK? Every country has different data protection rules (the GT-R tracks your location - that's personal data that IIRC the mobile phone companies (who also can do the same thing with cell tower triangulation) have strict limits on what they can do with it) and I'm not enough of a lawyer to know what the rules are here.
I'm struggling to see who the main market for these cars is. The 'street racer' crew or even enthusiastic road drivers won't want the GPS 'Big Brother' crap. The average Rice Modder enthusiasts won't be interested in a car that is almost impossible to tune at reasonable prices. The track-slag types are going to have a problem with any car that doesn't give them the ability to change tyre, wheel and brake spec according to their preferred tracks and driving style. That leaves the very top-end Jap tuners (Top Secret, Mines, etc.) who can replace the entire electronics - and then there's an expensive car with no Nissan backup, and probably price competitive with the Porker anyway.
Given that there are a lot of petrolheads who have become rather on the defensive regarding UK government policy (which is universally 'enthusiast drivers are evil and to be repressed') - how many Porsche enthusiasts are going to be tempted out of their 911 turbos into a Nissan that only goes fast when the computers let you... and when you take it for service it tells the dealer exactly where you've been??? Even if you don't break speed limits on the road - if a member of the public complains about a dangerous driver (in another GT-R) but the police pick your numberplate by accident... can they then request from Nissan your complete history of location?
This is a paranoid worst-case scenario - but the mere fact that Nissan state they use a GPS unit to allow the car to go fast only at certain locations means that the car is tracking your location and matching it against a database. Nissan may claim that the lookup is instantaneous and no location history is stored - but without the ECU source code in front of me, I simply won't believe those sorts of statements. Memory is cheap and it'd cost Nissan £5 to add a flash chip to their ECU to record gigabytes of location information (that's a lot.... i.e. wherever you've ever driven the car).
I can see why Nissan have *had* to say this stuff to appease the Japanese government re: the 'gentleman's agreement' - and given the way Japanese society works, it's not unexpected. But whilst the Japanese may not object strongly to the means to the end (due to the fundamental difference in culture)... I'm finding it hard to see how the UK market will accept the 'Big Brother' aura that surrounds the whole car.
The only people I can see buying them here now are the ultra-rice enthusiasts with mega money who will use the car as a base for a serious weapon - replacement ECUs, massive modifications, the whole works. And given the huge changes involved, surely they'll just import a basic Jap model and SVA it with a load of modifications (since it'll be running new ECU, different brakes, wheels, tyres, turbos, maybe even different engine internals)...?????
Am I way off mark here? Nissan have produced what looks like a 997 turbo beater but given it a 'Big Brother' image that completely hands the 'enthusiast road driver' freedom to Porsche. Now the Big Brother stuff may be wrong (and the GPS location may not be recorded, and all sorts of other stuff may not be as insidious as implied) - but if that's the case, then it's either utterly abysmal PR by Nissan, or appalling journalism by not only PH but also the car magazines that have reported on the new GT-R (they have all confirmed the GPS location tracking, for a start). If the journalism is bad, then Nissan GB should be on the media offensive to prevent inaccurate statements....
So who here would buy one, as an enthusiast road driver, if your GPS location was tracked and stored and available to Nissan and all its representatives (and presumably the police if asked). And, even though it is illegal, every so often you have to make an emergency overtake to get away from a dangerous situation that breaks the speed limit.... would you be happy with a car that may cut power mid-overtake due to a software bug? Software has bugs. Even money-no-object mission-critical software has bugs. NASA and the ESA have lost entire missions due to software bugs, and their development budgets are much larger than Nissan's. I analyse and specify software for the financial industry for a living - the more features and requirements you add, the more bugs you get. Bug-free code is pie-in-the-sky, even with shit-hot developers and shit-hot testers. If my car cuts speed based off a radio signal (and we all know GPS is both dependent on number of visible satellites and the current state of USA military nervousness... if the USA get scared then they downgrade the GPS accuracy) then I'm nervous. Half way round an 'approved' track, if the USA flick the 'downgrade accuracy' switch due to some classified intel, and the GT-R GPS decides I'm now not on that track any more... there could be a big accident. Especially if I'm 180+ at the time and the computer decides that I need to be below 112. There are so many failure modes that would be dangerous with this technology, that it'd be safer to simply not allow the 'unrestricted' mode to engage. Limit the cars to 112 everywhere.
Peculiar. I've never owned or, regrettably, driven a full-on Skyline, and I'd love to. But the new model's PR seems to clearly state that the car's development is putting the government before the driver. And given many enthusiast drivers feel persecuted by the government, this isn't exactly the best way to market a car to them.
Seems a bit weird to me, however amazing the car may be when off the leash.
If there are any worried 911 turbo track enthusiasts out there, you need not fear the GT-R... just install a radio transmitter that transmits noise on the GPS frequencies in your car. Any GT-R coming up behind you will slow down to 112 mph. Job done 
hello all first time doing this!!!!!
following a recent trip to japan i can comfirm a few recent developments on the r35 gtr
1. the euc can be replaced by a stand alone unit this is offerd by mines,yellow hat, and soon by top secret
2. the wheels can be changed have seen it with my own eyes the fault warnings are over rided by new e-prom software
3.hks have a turbo kit in development and will be ready for the d1 season
4.if i remember correctly a rwd d1 spec car for this years championship was on show at the t.a.s show co-developed with dunlop?
5.as stated befor nissan will offer a uprated gt-r by 2009 lighter and more focused
6.finaly and here is the best bit over 20 modified gt-r's were on show at the japan auto salon many of witch are profiled in various uk tunning mag's this month
nissan are just useing the media to scare the public into accepting whats offerd rather than letting the car speak for it's self.
having seen the beast i can only say this....it will be the bench mark apon all other new performance cars this year are compared by and nissan should just shut up and let the car do all the talking.........
following a recent trip to japan i can comfirm a few recent developments on the r35 gtr
1. the euc can be replaced by a stand alone unit this is offerd by mines,yellow hat, and soon by top secret
2. the wheels can be changed have seen it with my own eyes the fault warnings are over rided by new e-prom software
3.hks have a turbo kit in development and will be ready for the d1 season
4.if i remember correctly a rwd d1 spec car for this years championship was on show at the t.a.s show co-developed with dunlop?
5.as stated befor nissan will offer a uprated gt-r by 2009 lighter and more focused
6.finaly and here is the best bit over 20 modified gt-r's were on show at the japan auto salon many of witch are profiled in various uk tunning mag's this month
nissan are just useing the media to scare the public into accepting whats offerd rather than letting the car speak for it's self.
having seen the beast i can only say this....it will be the bench mark apon all other new performance cars this year are compared by and nissan should just shut up and let the car do all the talking.........
Talksteer said:
EDLT said:
The 112mph speed limiter was to keep the japanese government happy, I assumed its so you can speed enough to be fined. Although I'm not sure why they limit bikes to 186mph...
They don;t limit bikes to 186mph in Japan, all the Japanese 1000cc bike are illegal in Japan anyway, the 186mph limit was a gentleman's agreement in Euro to pre-empt the EU doing it for them.By the time all the gizmos reach production, someone will have already reverse engineered them. All the chips and component info wil be readily available.
I only wonder why they bothered thats all, maybe they did it for a bet???
"Lets see if we can make the most complicated sports car ever, as it won't be special in any other way........." marketing departments youve got to love em.
I only wonder why they bothered thats all, maybe they did it for a bet???
"Lets see if we can make the most complicated sports car ever, as it won't be special in any other way........." marketing departments youve got to love em.
i agree i think that it wont take long too sort something out as harsh as it is to do that to customers, there will be something along soon. well look at the MINES company they have already done it and TopSecret are well under way for there version of what they call a perfect car. so i think they made a big mistake with doing all this becuase they are just gonna lose alot of customers in the long run.
Gps tracking of the car can be very easily stopped. No antenna no gps signal. Install mines ecu(which compared to some ecu's is not that expensive) which will get rid of 112mph limit and will let the car function normally without gps working.
I agree nissan should never of done this gps tracking on the car but it can be got round easily. Japanese goverment would never let nissan build this car if it did not have all these gizmos to stop the car going fast.
You have to remember even the police cars in Japan are restricted to 112mph, so they dont want other cars going faster.
I am seriously thinking of getting one. Will definatley replace ecu which will void warrenty but i am happy with that.
If i am going to spend 60,000 on a car i want it to be able to reach its full potential.
I agree nissan should never of done this gps tracking on the car but it can be got round easily. Japanese goverment would never let nissan build this car if it did not have all these gizmos to stop the car going fast.
You have to remember even the police cars in Japan are restricted to 112mph, so they dont want other cars going faster.
I am seriously thinking of getting one. Will definatley replace ecu which will void warrenty but i am happy with that.
If i am going to spend 60,000 on a car i want it to be able to reach its full potential.
Spiritual_Beggar said:
image wont be a problem when everyone realises that this GTR wipes the pants off a porsche 911 around a track!! just look at the official nurburgring lap times and see the company this car is keeping.
pay £60k and get a car thats keeping track with carrera gt's
ive got one on order, but if these rumours are true, Nissan can shove the car back up their arseholes.pay £60k and get a car thats keeping track with carrera gt's
Ive done hundreds of track days in 911s, never had to spend much on anything other than tyres and pads...£500 per track day tells me that Nissan have no confidence in the reliability of this car....
so I am having second thoughts now.
Just to add, the GTR wasnt a replacement for the GT3...it was a replacement for my daily driver..Its not that special, but it would have been nice to have done the odd track day in it too.
Edited by peterpeter on Sunday 10th February 19:12
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