'Organised' cycle racing on the roads ...

[majordad]

And going by the Tour de France senario, I bet half of them are on drugs as well. No wonder they wear yellow tops.

[Colonial]

Ok, so it's the corners and what not that they are interested in

Why not rent out a race circut?

I've come across this, and it is bloody dangerous. I don't see what the big issue is.

I'm not seeing anti-cycling. I'm seeing anti-organised bike race on a public road with little to no warning or safety procedures in place.

Basically it's double standards. You can't on the one hand say that you deserve the same level of respect as any other road user, and then go on to demand a seperate set of rules because you enjoy racing on a road.

[g_attrill]

You can't just hold a race, the events have to be sanctioned by the BCF, also I think the local police have a say too, ossibly the BCF give the police the final powers for some races. A few years ago I recall reading about a race in Hampshire - the police motorcyclists were getting annoyed with some of the cyclists crossing solid lines to move through the pack. They stopped the race twice and on the final time they said if it happened again the race would be cancelled.

[will_]

Diderot said:

... masses of precarious overtakes from frustrated bikers and drivers, a few (very) near cycle/biker/car interfaces, several near head-on collisions...

Edited by Diderot on Sunday 22 March 18:51

Are you blaming the cyclists for being dangerously overtaken by bad drivers?

[new in today]

I used to road race on pushbikes.

Even though the race is led by a car warning that a cycle race is approaching I still had motorists pull out accross in front of me in one case a Furniture van pulled out of a side street blocking the whole road and totally ruining a race I was leading .After 80 miles I had broken away with only a mile to go and a chasing pack on my tail.

So do I give a fig about motorists being occasionaly disrupted by a cycle race?

[Busa_Rush]

new in today said:

...in one case a Furniture van pulled out of a side street blocking the whole road and totally ruining a race I was leading .After 80 miles I had broken away with only a mile to go and a chasing pack on my tail.

Good, it's the public highway, there for anybody to use. If you want to race use a race track like the rest of us. There are some great race tracks in most parts of the country - I'm sure Motorsport Vision for example would be very pleased to talk to you.

Why is it cyclists have this superior attitude ? It ruins the roads for the rest of us cyclists . . .

[Diderot]

Parrot of Doom said:

Really, is repeating my words the best argument you can come up with? You seem completely unable to answer even the simplest question. Nothing you have described regarding the behaviour of these cyclists (I have little doubt your story is very heavily embellished) would surprise anyone if it were ascribed to your average motorist.

Is this ad hominem attrition loop the best you could come up with?

I have answered your question; that you cannot read it, comprehend it and effectively process simple information is really not my concern. You seem incapable of discerning the difference between cycling/driving and racing on a busy A road, which leads me to conclude that you are not the brightest parrot in the company.

[heebeegeetee]

Busa_Rush said:

Good, it's the public highway, there for anybody to use. If you want to race use a race track like the rest of us.

The rest of us don't use race tracks for motorsport, many are able to use the roads for their motorsport and we don't want more nimbys ruining it for us.

[Diderot]

heebeegeetee said:

Busa_Rush said:

Good, it's the public highway, there for anybody to use. If you want to race use a race track like the rest of us.

The rest of us don't use race tracks for motorsport, many are able to use the roads for their motorsport and we don't want more nimbys ruining it for us.

So you race on the road?

[KaraK]

I definately wouldnt want to see it banned - but I would love to see the organisation and safety aspects improved.

A stretch of the A6 near me is used for regular (once weekly) time trials) and while the majority of the "serious" competitors are very good at roadcraft and are very much aware of whats going on around them you always get a quarter or so of the field that are completely out of their depth and are all over the place (often as they are exhausted riding up hills and are struggling to control the bike) - and that's dangerous for ALL road users. Personally I would like to see a proper licensing structure put in place to ensure that people racing on the roads meet a certain minimum standard to do so safely, combined with marshalls to spot riders that are in trouble and help out the whole sport could carried out in a way that is much safer for all road users, cyclists and motorists alike.

[Muzzlehatch]

Crikey, a lot of bitterness on here.

R3v 1 said:

So why don't the bicycle people build a track for the purpose of racing bikes?

They do, they are called Velodromes.

chris.mapey said:

One thing - why aren't they held at motor racing circuits? If a veldrome is not big enough, then why not use Silverstone or similar? How about approaching any number of old airfields?

There are loads of races regularly at racetracks (and even the Top Gear track at Dunsfold). But racetracks are too flat to be properly challenging. You need long arduous climbs, which only the Nordschleife can provide, and bike races only happen there a few times a year.

Diderot said:

Far be it from to tell you that you are either functionally illiterate or you are wilfully misreading what was originally written.

Oops, hoisted by your own petard.

Cars racing on a public highway can have catastrophic consequences in the event of a collision. There is so much kinetic energy to dissipate that contact with an oncoming vehicle would almost certainly be fatal. Conversely, if a race bike crashes, a few people get grazed knees. There is no comparison.

Regarding inconvenience... yes, it can be a pain, but then you are at liberty to phone the council in advance of your journey to ask which roads will be used for organised events, so that you can plan an alternative route. Otherwise, just chill and let's all just allow one another a bit of give and take.

[FarleyRusk]

coupeboy said:

FarleyRusk said:

coupeboy said:

Symbolica said:

FarleyRusk said:

Once cyclists actually pay for the roads they use then they can start to act like they bloody own them! Until then, a bit of respect for the majority of other road users would be in order.

What about cyclists who also own cars?

VED does not pay for roads, it's based on Co2 emissions, it's a duty for polluting the air, cycles do not pollute the air.

So is the money collected under this pretence actually being spent on neutralising or fixing the alleged effects of environmental pollution then?

No, it goes into the Exchequer and is spent on whatever, it may be spent on roads and reducing carbon emmisions amongst other things. VED does reward people for driving cleaner cars, hence cars like the vw blue motion and prius etc, which in turn helps reduce air pollution.

CO2 is only a pollutant if you believe the MMGW fairy tale - which is another thread of course!

Money raised from motorists via VED and fuel duty is partially spent on roads via a complex central funding allocation system which indeed denies a direct link. Where the rest goes is anyone's guess.

[Scuffers]

Seems to be a lot of attitude here rather than actually discussing the issues.

for the record, I have no problem with people wanting to cycle round the countryside, same as others want to ride horses, walk, or (god forbid), drive a car.

My issue comes when one of said groups decides to take over the road to the detriment of others, for example, when 40+ cycle racers in a pack basically fill the whole road so that if you happen to be trying to walk down it, you either have to climb the verge/hedge, or be run over (and I am not exaggerating).

Basically, if they are out, you can't go for a walk, something that I consider part of living in the countryside.

now, this never happens for car traffic, cars one drive one at a time in a line, not 6-8 wide, so apart from the rare occasion that two meet coming in opposite directions, there is plenty of room for the car to pass the pedestrian.

Same goes for Horses, so long as they stick to the rules, they are also no a problem.

Now, there are plenty of people who cycle round here in much the same way people walk around, once again, no problem.

the problem is when organised races (or time trials? how can you tell the difference?) are conducted on the roads, this is just stupid and dangerous, country lanes are not designed for people to go racing on them, can't tell you how many times I have come round a blind corner to find a pack of cyclists basically filling the road coming towards me (usually making aggressive gestures that I should not be on the road).

Now, as far as I know, we have not had an accident yet, but IMHO it's just a matter of time before there is one, and let's face it, 2 tonnes of car vs. a pack of cyclists is not going to be pretty is it?

if people must race on the roads, then they should shut the road to other road users, that's just plain common sence, something this thread is sadly lacking.

[deckster]

Scuffers said:

Now, as far as I know, we have not had an accident yet, but IMHO it's just a matter of time before there is one, and let's face it, 2 tonnes of car vs. a pack of cyclists is not going to be pretty is it?

Well the fact that organised road racing has been going on for decades without any noticeable degree of carnage means that I would beg to differ here. I suspect the additional risk due to the presence of a cycle race is negligible.

Scuffers said:

if people must race on the roads, then they should shut the road to other road users, that's just plain common sence, something this thread is sadly lacking.

Well as we all know, sense (like good spelling ) is not terribly common. The basic premise of this thread is that road racing is a) dangerous - which it isn't, see above - and b) inconsiderate to other road users. Do you really think that shutting the road completely will be less of a nuisance?

Edited by deckster on Monday 23 March 09:17

[Muzzlehatch]

Scuffers said:

the problem is when organised races (or time trials? how can you tell the difference?)

Time Trials are one-by-one against the clock, setting off about a minute apart and usually on a dual carriageway. They are not allowed to huddle together (or "draft"). Races are where you will get groups of 40 or so riders racing to win over a set distance.

Scuffers said:

Basically, if they are out, you can't go for a walk, something that I consider part of living in the countryside.

I tend to walk on footpaths and bridleways. When walking on country lanes, I will expect to have to step up the verge occasionally. I have no problem with that, as a wide tractor or group of cyclists aren't able to do that.

I agree, any large group (whether racing or just on a group training ride) can be an inconvenience, and there are plonkers that will gesticulate unnecessarily. But that's the same for ramblers, riders, runners, etc.

Agreed, where possible the roads should be closed, but that's not always possible, so everyone needs simply to give each other more respect.

Edited by Muzzlehatch on Monday 23 March 09:17

[OJ]

Sorry, but I think a few of you may be yet to experience the back roads of East Surrey and West Sussex on a weekend.

The road in which I live is a narrow single carriageway that requires cars to slow significantly to pass eachother safely.

It is not uncommon to negotiate a blind corner on a saturday or sunday morning to be confronted by upwards of 30 cyclists, three abreast approaching at close to the 40mph speed limit.

They're all to close together to stop or react to traffic. A few weeks ago one of them in a pack of around 15 managed to fall off on some ice outside our house, and the result was nothing short of a battlefield triage.

Now they were all nice chaps, and I certainly wouldn't wish any harm on them, but an element of logic does need to be introduced as I don't much fancy being on the receiving end of a Daily Mail headline because I've rounded a right hand corner in my mother's Range Rover at 20mph and wiped out half a dozen cyclists who are travelling too fast and on the wrong side of the road

[Scuffers]

Muzzlehatch said:

Scuffers said:

the problem is when organised races (or time trials? how can you tell the difference?)

Time Trials are one-by-one against the clock, setting off about a minute apart and usually on a dual carriageway. They are not allowed to huddle together (or "draft"). Races are where you will get groups of 40 or so riders racing to win over a set distance.

So, we are talking racing then... that's settled that....

Muzzlehatch said:

Scuffers said:

Basically, if they are out, you can't go for a walk, something that I consider part of living in the countryside.

I tend to walk on footpaths and bridleways. When walking on country lanes, I will expect to have to step up the verge occasionally. I have no problem with that, as a wide tractor or group of cyclists aren't able to do that.

I agree, any large group (whether racing or just on a group training ride) can be an inconvenience, and there are plonkers that will gesticulate unnecessarily. But that's the same for ramblers, riders, runners, etc.

Agreed, where possible the roads should be closed, but that's not always possible, so everyone needs simply to give each other more respect.

Tractors/combines, etc do not charge down the roads at speed with no regard for others.

this is a relatively recent issue round here since the club only came into being in the last few years.

I suggest if you think it's OK to have packs of racers taking over country lanes, then we are clearly never going to agree on this one....

[Scuffers]

OJ said:

Sorry, but I think a few of you may be yet to experience the back roads of East Surrey and West Sussex on a weekend.

The road in which I live is a narrow single carriageway that requires cars to slow significantly to pass eachother safely.

It is not uncommon to negotiate a blind corner on a saturday or sunday morning to be confronted by upwards of 30 cyclists, three abreast approaching at close to the 40mph speed limit.

They're all to close together to stop or react to traffic. A few weeks ago one of them in a pack of around 15 managed to fall off on some ice outside our house, and the result was nothing short of a battlefield triage.

Now they were all nice chaps, and I certainly wouldn't wish any harm on them, but an element of logic does need to be introduced as I don't much fancy being on the receiving end of a Daily Mail headline because I've rounded a right hand corner in my mother's Range Rover at 20mph and wiped out half a dozen cyclists who are travelling too fast and on the wrong side of the road

well said, I can see the headline now, Gas guzzling 4x4 massacres green cyclists

[Muzzlehatch]

Scuffers said:

I suggest if you think it's OK to have packs of racers taking over country lanes, then we are clearly never going to agree on this one....

No, I agree with you (and OJ above) that a pack of bikes caning it down an unclosed country lane, taking up both sides of the road around blind bends, is utterly daft, and they deserve everything they get.

My responses were in relation to the OP's OP.

[OJ]

Scuffers said:

well said, I can see the headline now, Gas guzzling 4x4 massacres green cyclists

More likely '24 year old racing driver mows down cyclists in £75,000 Range Rover'