RE: Lotus Evora
Discussion
Really hope it's successful, and that they've got on top of the build quality this time. But I think it's looks are going to be its Achilles heel in terms of sales imho.
It's an awkward looking car with strange proportions from a lot of angles, especially front on and front 3/4.
It's not that it's unattractive as such, and I actually quite like its quirkiness, but for the masses who want a durable everyday sports car/GT such as the Cayman (which Lotus has made it plain they're gunning for) It might be a step too far, compared to the more conventional looking established Cayman option (who's styling does absolutely nothing for me btw)
It's an awkward looking car with strange proportions from a lot of angles, especially front on and front 3/4.
It's not that it's unattractive as such, and I actually quite like its quirkiness, but for the masses who want a durable everyday sports car/GT such as the Cayman (which Lotus has made it plain they're gunning for) It might be a step too far, compared to the more conventional looking established Cayman option (who's styling does absolutely nothing for me btw)
evo4a said:
Driller said:
Would you come around a corner, see this car parked up and stop dead in your tracks, uttering "wow" under your breath before slowly walking up for a closer look, having forgotten everything else around you?
Maybe I'm just not in the target market for this car, maybe I miss my Griffith too much.
Did that really used to happen every time you saw a Griffith, surely you could see a few of the people doing wMaybe I'm just not in the target market for this car, maybe I miss my Griffith too much.
ker signs.Are you saying I'm a w
ker because I drove a TVR or because I said I didn't like a particular car? 
Miguel said:
I just read this, but I'd guess the article's been edited. The Lotus Excel, which replaced both the (70's) Elite and Eclat, was Lotus powered. It did not have a Toyota engine, but the non-turbo 2.2L Lotus engine previously used in the earlier models, which had started out as a 2.0L. I believe it was based on a Vauxhall block.
Miguel
Not that old chestnut again - the Lotus 900 series engine was not based on a Vauxhall block! Development of the cylinder head was carried out on Vauxhall blocks because of their similarity to the block that Lotus were developing, and this sped up the process. That's all.Miguel
BTW, the Evora looks great, especially in that dark red.
Driller said:
evo4a said:
Driller said:
Would you come around a corner, see this car parked up and stop dead in your tracks, uttering "wow" under your breath before slowly walking up for a closer look, having forgotten everything else around you?
Maybe I'm just not in the target market for this car, maybe I miss my Griffith too much.
Did that really used to happen every time you saw a Griffith, surely you could see a few of the people doing wMaybe I'm just not in the target market for this car, maybe I miss my Griffith too much.
ker signs.Are you saying I'm a w
ker because I drove a TVR or because I said I didn't like a particular car? Can I recommend a visit to Drivers Republic where they have 20 minutes of interviews documenting design, build and handling. http://www.drivers-republic.com/dr_tv/index.cfm?vi...
So far the more I learn about this car the more impressed I am with it. Still the proof is in the pudding when I can buy/test drive one three years old...
So far the more I learn about this car the more impressed I am with it. Still the proof is in the pudding when I can buy/test drive one three years old...
Kam,
"I think the point was that the Evora's figure doesn't include the rigidity added by the roof. If that's right, I suppose it would be fairer to compare the Evora chassis to the Boxster rather than the Cayman and assume that the Evora and Cayman both gain similar strength from the roof."
Thats my point Lotus specialty is designing chassis, and they can't even match a steel Porsche in either strength/bending or visibility. They have clearly made a compromised design. And I do not believe they needed to. Somehow I also get in the impression that its high speed ability will also not be near Porsche products.
"I think the point was that the Evora's figure doesn't include the rigidity added by the roof. If that's right, I suppose it would be fairer to compare the Evora chassis to the Boxster rather than the Cayman and assume that the Evora and Cayman both gain similar strength from the roof."
Thats my point Lotus specialty is designing chassis, and they can't even match a steel Porsche in either strength/bending or visibility. They have clearly made a compromised design. And I do not believe they needed to. Somehow I also get in the impression that its high speed ability will also not be near Porsche products.
j123 said:
Kam,
"I think the point was that the Evora's figure doesn't include the rigidity added by the roof. If that's right, I suppose it would be fairer to compare the Evora chassis to the Boxster rather than the Cayman and assume that the Evora and Cayman both gain similar strength from the roof."
Thats my point Lotus specialty is designing chassis, and they can't even match a steel Porsche in either strength/bending or visibility. They have clearly made a compromised design. And I do not believe they needed to. Somehow I also get in the impression that its high speed ability will also not be near Porsche products.
Sorry, I guess I didn't explain myself very well. Porsche don't have to rely on body panels to aid chassis stiffness in the Cayman, because the body is the chassis (steel monocoque). The Cayman isn't going to be any stiffer than the figure you quoted because there's nothing more to contribute to stiffness. When Porsche cannot rely on the complete body to provide stiffness, (for example the Boxter which is the only one I can find figures for), they end up with slightly worse figures than the Elise."I think the point was that the Evora's figure doesn't include the rigidity added by the roof. If that's right, I suppose it would be fairer to compare the Evora chassis to the Boxster rather than the Cayman and assume that the Evora and Cayman both gain similar strength from the roof."
Thats my point Lotus specialty is designing chassis, and they can't even match a steel Porsche in either strength/bending or visibility. They have clearly made a compromised design. And I do not believe they needed to. Somehow I also get in the impression that its high speed ability will also not be near Porsche products.
The Evora on the other hand, apparently gets the figures you've been reading from the chassis alone - so a convertible could be over two and a half times stiffer than the Boxter. In practice, the central tub contributes to overall stiffness which probably accounts for the glowing reports of ride and handling.
As it is, comparing figures like these mean absolutely nothing to me. I'm not a racing driver, and I don't swap cars often enough to make accurate comparisons even if I could detect what a 20% difference in torsional rigidity meant. So the important thing to me is reading the reviews and taking a test drive rather than playing top trumps. They all say the handling is stunning, and rear visibility doesn't seem to be quite the deal breaker you make it out to be.
But let's be honest, most car purchasing decisions are made with the heart, then we desperately reach round for logical reasons and firgures to back them up.
Edited by Tuna on Sunday 10th May 22:05
Looks: great
Handling: sure it will be great too
Weight: 1350Kg? Sorry, that's not a Lotus, more like a Lotarse.
Let's put that in perspective shall we? That's the weight of a new BMW 5-door 120d, and that's built using a bonded aluminium chassis and a fibreglass body. Come on Lotus! What were you thinking?
What we *need* are sub 1000kg cars that can exploit the virtuous circle of performance through Chapman's "for speed just add lightness", that are simultaneously fast, nimble, cost-conscious and environmentally friendly. The original Elise weighed 725Kg - I can scarcely believe that the Evora weighs TWICE this amount!
Despite the fact that I am a previous Elise owner (have a young child now) I will not be buying an Evora. It's not light enough for me to consider it a Lotus, I'd rather buy an Elite or Eclat that can actually seat 4 ADULTS and still weighs 925kg. Yes, before anyone says "oh, that was before crash regulations blah blah" I'll just say "that was 35 years ago - I'm sure with the talent that Lotus has and the engineering progress over the past 4 DECADES that Lotus can design an efficient light-weight way of meeting regulations, a methodology which it can then sell to other manufacturers, instead of producing something that weighs as much as a larger, STEEL-bodied car".
Handling: sure it will be great too
Weight: 1350Kg? Sorry, that's not a Lotus, more like a Lotarse.
Let's put that in perspective shall we? That's the weight of a new BMW 5-door 120d, and that's built using a bonded aluminium chassis and a fibreglass body. Come on Lotus! What were you thinking?
What we *need* are sub 1000kg cars that can exploit the virtuous circle of performance through Chapman's "for speed just add lightness", that are simultaneously fast, nimble, cost-conscious and environmentally friendly. The original Elise weighed 725Kg - I can scarcely believe that the Evora weighs TWICE this amount!
Despite the fact that I am a previous Elise owner (have a young child now) I will not be buying an Evora. It's not light enough for me to consider it a Lotus, I'd rather buy an Elite or Eclat that can actually seat 4 ADULTS and still weighs 925kg. Yes, before anyone says "oh, that was before crash regulations blah blah" I'll just say "that was 35 years ago - I'm sure with the talent that Lotus has and the engineering progress over the past 4 DECADES that Lotus can design an efficient light-weight way of meeting regulations, a methodology which it can then sell to other manufacturers, instead of producing something that weighs as much as a larger, STEEL-bodied car".
I very much doubt that a 1-series is larger than the Evora. I would have thought that the Evora was substantially bigger.
I do agree that the weight is slightly disappointing though. I don't think 1000kg was achievable, but 1100-1200kg should have been, surely?
I do agree that the weight is slightly disappointing though. I don't think 1000kg was achievable, but 1100-1200kg should have been, surely?
Edited by kambites on Monday 11th May 09:34
neon_fox said:
Looks: great
Handling: sure it will be great too
Weight: 1350Kg? Sorry, that's not a Lotus, more like a Lotarse.
Let's put that in perspective shall we? That's the weight of a new BMW 5-door 120d, and that's built using a bonded aluminium chassis and a fibreglass body. Come on Lotus! What were you thinking?
What we *need* are sub 1000kg cars that can exploit the virtuous circle of performance through Chapman's "for speed just add lightness", that are simultaneously fast, nimble, cost-conscious and environmentally friendly. The original Elise weighed 725Kg - I can scarcely believe that the Evora weighs TWICE this amount!
Despite the fact that I am a previous Elise owner (have a young child now) I will not be buying an Evora. It's not light enough for me to consider it a Lotus, I'd rather buy an Elite or Eclat that can actually seat 4 ADULTS and still weighs 925kg. Yes, before anyone says "oh, that was before crash regulations blah blah" I'll just say "that was 35 years ago - I'm sure with the talent that Lotus has and the engineering progress over the past 4 DECADES that Lotus can design an efficient light-weight way of meeting regulations, a methodology which it can then sell to other manufacturers, instead of producing something that weighs as much as a larger, STEEL-bodied car".
You're not going to buy a car because on paper its too heavy??? Handling: sure it will be great too
Weight: 1350Kg? Sorry, that's not a Lotus, more like a Lotarse.
Let's put that in perspective shall we? That's the weight of a new BMW 5-door 120d, and that's built using a bonded aluminium chassis and a fibreglass body. Come on Lotus! What were you thinking?
What we *need* are sub 1000kg cars that can exploit the virtuous circle of performance through Chapman's "for speed just add lightness", that are simultaneously fast, nimble, cost-conscious and environmentally friendly. The original Elise weighed 725Kg - I can scarcely believe that the Evora weighs TWICE this amount!
Despite the fact that I am a previous Elise owner (have a young child now) I will not be buying an Evora. It's not light enough for me to consider it a Lotus, I'd rather buy an Elite or Eclat that can actually seat 4 ADULTS and still weighs 925kg. Yes, before anyone says "oh, that was before crash regulations blah blah" I'll just say "that was 35 years ago - I'm sure with the talent that Lotus has and the engineering progress over the past 4 DECADES that Lotus can design an efficient light-weight way of meeting regulations, a methodology which it can then sell to other manufacturers, instead of producing something that weighs as much as a larger, STEEL-bodied car".
How about driving it first and seeing?
As for blaming Lotus for not being able to figure out how to build the car the same but weigh less than 1000kg is pretty frigging stupid.
How many other car makers achieve this today??
And I suspect than this heavy weight Evora will grip better and change direction better than any 35 year old Lotus weighing just under sub 1000kg.
BTW - are you sure all these weights are comparable?? Are the real? Are the dry or wet weighs?
neon_fox said:
Looks: great
Handling: sure it will be great too
Weight: 1350Kg? Sorry, that's not a Lotus, more like a Lotarse.
Let's put that in perspective shall we? That's the weight of a new BMW 5-door 120d, and that's built using a bonded aluminium chassis and a fibreglass body. Come on Lotus! What were you thinking?
What we *need* are sub 1000kg cars that can exploit the virtuous circle of performance through Chapman's "for speed just add lightness", that are simultaneously fast, nimble, cost-conscious and environmentally friendly. The original Elise weighed 725Kg - I can scarcely believe that the Evora weighs TWICE this amount!
Despite the fact that I am a previous Elise owner (have a young child now) I will not be buying an Evora. It's not light enough for me to consider it a Lotus, I'd rather buy an Elite or Eclat that can actually seat 4 ADULTS and still weighs 925kg. Yes, before anyone says "oh, that was before crash regulations blah blah" I'll just say "that was 35 years ago - I'm sure with the talent that Lotus has and the engineering progress over the past 4 DECADES that Lotus can design an efficient light-weight way of meeting regulations, a methodology which it can then sell to other manufacturers, instead of producing something that weighs as much as a larger, STEEL-bodied car".
Twice the power, twice the number of seats, twice the boot space and less than twice the weight of the original Elise. Doesn't seem quite as bad when put like that.Handling: sure it will be great too
Weight: 1350Kg? Sorry, that's not a Lotus, more like a Lotarse.
Let's put that in perspective shall we? That's the weight of a new BMW 5-door 120d, and that's built using a bonded aluminium chassis and a fibreglass body. Come on Lotus! What were you thinking?
What we *need* are sub 1000kg cars that can exploit the virtuous circle of performance through Chapman's "for speed just add lightness", that are simultaneously fast, nimble, cost-conscious and environmentally friendly. The original Elise weighed 725Kg - I can scarcely believe that the Evora weighs TWICE this amount!
Despite the fact that I am a previous Elise owner (have a young child now) I will not be buying an Evora. It's not light enough for me to consider it a Lotus, I'd rather buy an Elite or Eclat that can actually seat 4 ADULTS and still weighs 925kg. Yes, before anyone says "oh, that was before crash regulations blah blah" I'll just say "that was 35 years ago - I'm sure with the talent that Lotus has and the engineering progress over the past 4 DECADES that Lotus can design an efficient light-weight way of meeting regulations, a methodology which it can then sell to other manufacturers, instead of producing something that weighs as much as a larger, STEEL-bodied car".
it looks great and as a long disappointed lotus fan i really hope it's successful...
but "276bhp 3.5-litre V6 is donated from Toyota" is the most soul destroying line i've ever read... jesus, whats it out of? a $24k camry? fvcking misery. 78bhp/l. of course a lotus engine is out of the question but that's probably a $3000 lump for gods sake. surely a screaming vtec or even subaru boxer would have infinitely more appeal? or even the same engine but re badged as a mclaren/cosworth/lotus. maybe i'm wrong and the camry v6 can be freed up with an ecu change but i really think its going to struggle in that price range with that engine. i don't think the target buyer is going to want to be asked about the engine out of a $24k shopping trolley by his mates at the golf club.
but "276bhp 3.5-litre V6 is donated from Toyota" is the most soul destroying line i've ever read... jesus, whats it out of? a $24k camry? fvcking misery. 78bhp/l. of course a lotus engine is out of the question but that's probably a $3000 lump for gods sake. surely a screaming vtec or even subaru boxer would have infinitely more appeal? or even the same engine but re badged as a mclaren/cosworth/lotus. maybe i'm wrong and the camry v6 can be freed up with an ecu change but i really think its going to struggle in that price range with that engine. i don't think the target buyer is going to want to be asked about the engine out of a $24k shopping trolley by his mates at the golf club.
Edited by fbrs on Monday 11th May 16:17
fbrs said:
i don't think the target buyer is going to want to be asked about the engine out of a $24k shopping trolley by his mates at the golf club.
The 'target buyer':a) doesn't play golf
b) doesn't give a flying f*** what people think about the engine
My Elise has a Rover K-series in it and no-one's ever asked about it because ITS A LOTUS. The Toyota engined Elises are brilliant, more noise and a screaming engine that revs to 8.5k
Price is certainly an issue - its a 55k car once you've got a couple of options on it.
I'm passing on the Evora (for a 9110 but there's always a chance when I get a test drive I might change my mind again...
fbrs said:
"276bhp 3.5-litre V6 is donated from Toyota" is the most soul destroying line i've ever read...
You're forgetting about the upsides to having this engine. It's been through Toyota's testing regime so should be relatively reliable, can you guarantee that with that the Cayman's engine? I know people like us aren't supposed to be bothered by economy but it does 32 MPG combined and can do 0-60 MPH in less than 5 seconds, that to me sounds like having your cake and eating it.
I agree that the engine will lack some character when compared to the Cayman but I'm sure Larini and such like will bring out an exhaust that will make the engine sound as it should.
kryten said:
fbrs said:
i don't think the target buyer is going to want to be asked about the engine out of a $24k shopping trolley by his mates at the golf club.
The 'target buyer':a) doesn't play golf
b) doesn't give a flying f*** what people think about the engine
I wish them well but to be brutally honest, I wouldn't even swop you for my current E46 cab. Airy, quick, 4 good seats and a decent boot. Yes it's a compromise but I also have a Caterham.
This looks like an expensive but actually quite poor compromise and will be astonsihed if it holds up against a 911. 1350kg isn't a lightweight.
This looks like an expensive but actually quite poor compromise and will be astonsihed if it holds up against a 911. 1350kg isn't a lightweight.
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