Winter Tyres

[tenohfive]

Wills2 said:

Different tyres the sottozeros are the high performance winter tyres like pilot alpins, neither of which are in that test.

Ah, cool. Had a brief worry about buying the wrong tyres.

I've got the Sottozero 3's and they've been great so far on my 530d. They were replacing borderline summer Conti's so a like for like comparison is impossible. In 7 plus degrees they handle nicely. When provoked they do show that they aren't a premium summer tyre - but in a month of driving on them that's happened twice, and with no real drama either time. So for normal, sensible driving I'm perfectly confident driving on them in warmer temps. That being said it does feel strange when the grip starts to improve with a drop in temperature. In 4 degrees and under they feel very planted and really come into their own.

I'm not expecting great things from the snow gods this year but I'm curious about snow performance. This may be an impossible question but would anyone hazard how the Sottozero 3's on a RWD estate would handle compared to Vector 4Seasons on a FWD saloon?

[Gandahar]

It's looking colder next week but still dry.

[Liquid Tuna]

Fox- said:

HustleRussell said:

The Avons were 20th though?

Not exactly a great showing for a tyre that seems to be the current PH Hero tyre though is it

Yes I'm surprised at 20th. I've used this tyre on three different cars now (2 AWD and 1 FWD) including last years snow and I thought they were awesome. Not as good as the Falkens on black ice I thought (although still around a billion times better than summers) but other than that they were great.

[FurtiveFreddy]

HustleRussell said:

The Avons were 20th though?

Not on the 2013 braking test.
40th out of 50. Is this correct?

Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Monday 2nd December 20:05

[page3]

8 deg C earlier today (warmest it's been for ages). I'm trundling down the third lane of the motorway doing around 75 leptons. A car joins the motorway and without indicating pulls sharply across all three lanes straight in-front of me, where he proceedes to slam on his brakes. Having barged into my breaking distance gap, I slam on my brakes, the car's dashboard lights up like a christmas tree and I slow to around 30 leptons (his speed) without drama. Conclusion: decent winter tyres (in this case Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme) work REALLY WELL, even above 7 degrees. Oh, and there are some real nutters about.

I might add, said driver then proceeded to trundle along in lane 3, at 30 leptons without budging. I overtake on the inside, and so does everyone else. Weird!

[Wills2]

tenohfive said:

Ah, cool. Had a brief worry about buying the wrong tyres.

That being said it does feel strange when the grip starts to improve with a drop in temperature. In 4 degrees and under they feel very planted and really come into their own.

Yes it is strange still haven't got used to it after 3 years of using winters, ah good it's 2c time to get my foot down!

[SkepticSteve]

Liquid Tuna said:

Fox- said:

HustleRussell said:

The Avons were 20th though?

Not exactly a great showing for a tyre that seems to be the current PH Hero tyre though is it

Yes I'm surprised at 20th. I've used this tyre on three different cars now (2 AWD and 1 FWD) including last years snow and I thought they were awesome. Not as good as the Falkens on black ice I thought (although still around a billion times better than summers) but other than that they were great.

I wouldn't worry about a GERMAN web site dissing a BRITISH made tyre and NOT letting it be tested in the snow test where it would be very very good.
Advertising Revenue to think about!

When I get the chance I am going to do an 80km Emergency Stop on a wet road and measure the stopping distance, I'll report back.

This guy has tested the Avon Ice T ST for us, and on my Boxster last winter I can confirm the same!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmr4ZduCGNw

[tenohfive]

SkepticSteve said:

When I get the chance I am going to do an 80km Emergency Stop on a wet road and measure the stopping distance, I'll report back.

Unless you're driving their test car - or are planning on repeating it with a series of other winter tyres at the same time - then you're just going to end up with a meaningless number. If you're happy with the performance you get from the Avon's though then that's good enough I would have thought.

[Fox-]

page3 said:

8 deg C earlier today (warmest it's been for ages). I'm trundling down the third lane of the motorway doing around 75 leptons. A car joins the motorway and without indicating pulls sharply across all three lanes straight in-front of me, where he proceedes to slam on his brakes. Having barged into my breaking distance gap, I slam on my brakes, the car's dashboard lights up like a christmas tree and I slow to around 30 leptons (his speed) without drama. Conclusion: decent winter tyres (in this case Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme) work REALLY WELL

So is the implication here supposed to be that you'd have crashed on summer tyres or something?

[Paul_M3]

Fox- said:

page3 said:

8 deg C earlier today (warmest it's been for ages). I'm trundling down the third lane of the motorway doing around 75 leptons. A car joins the motorway and without indicating pulls sharply across all three lanes straight in-front of me, where he proceedes to slam on his brakes. Having barged into my breaking distance gap, I slam on my brakes, the car's dashboard lights up like a christmas tree and I slow to around 30 leptons (his speed) without drama. Conclusion: decent winter tyres (in this case Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme) work REALLY WELL

So is the implication here supposed to be that you'd have crashed on summer tyres or something?

I took it that the implication was winter tyres still work perfectly well at temperatures of around 8 degrees. (As some people have implied they don't)

[anonymous-user]

SkepticSteve said:

I wouldn't worry about a GERMAN web site dissing a BRITISH made tyre and NOT letting it be tested in the snow test where it would be very very good.
Advertising Revenue to think about!

When I get the chance I am going to do an 80km Emergency Stop on a wet road and measure the stopping distance, I'll report back.

This guy has tested the Avon Ice T ST for us, and on my Boxster last winter I can confirm the same!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmr4ZduCGNw

But that test is on snow and not a wet braking test. I hardly think a publication would lie. I considered Avon Ice Tourings but quite a few of the reviews put it lower down, because as an all rounder it doesn't seem to be as good as other tyres.

[Parabola]

I'm getting my 1991 MK2 Golf out of it's garage for the winter. (My MGB has no heater, so I won't be using that much for a while)

Tyre size is 155 80 13. I was going to stick some mid range tyres on, about £45 a corner (Fitted), but it seems budget winter tyres wouldn't be much more.
I guess this makes sense? Would be handy to have a car thats properly ready for any snow we have.

My only worry is that budget winter tyres might not be great in the rain?
The car is only a 1272cc Ryder edition though, so pretty gentle driving all round!

The car will have limited use round Manchester, and the odd weekend run down to the Midlands.

I know I could use some Google Fu, but I'd really appreciate your opinions.

[carl_w]

FurtiveFreddy said:

HustleRussell said:

The Avons were 20th though?

Not on the 2013 braking test.
40th out of 50. Is this correct?

Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Monday 2nd December 20:05

Seems a bit odd though -- even if they haven't changed the compound or construction of the tyres, how can they be safe enough to test in 2012 but not safe enough in 2013? Is 2013's snow different from 2012's?

[jagnet]

Parabola said:

I know I could use some Google Fu, but I'd really appreciate your opinions.

In that size even the Conti TS780 is only £45 from Pneus, then allow ~£10 per tyre for fitting - cheap price for wet weather happiness

Alternatively the Uniroyal AllSeasonExpert is £38 - seems to be an almost-winter tyre all season with typical Uniroyal emphasis on wet rather than dry weather performance.

I'd certainly be inclined towards fitting winter or all seasons given that you have the MGB for summer use.

[HustleRussell]

carl_w said:

eems a bit odd though -- even if they haven't changed the compound or construction of the tyres, how can they be safe enough to test in 2012 but not safe enough in 2013? Is 2013's snow different from 2012's?

It looks to me as though they've decided the tyre was 'too dangerous' in wet conditions and therefore haven't tested it in the snow. Seems flawed to me as the snow may be where that particular tyre excels so the results aren't representative.

[jagnet]

HustleRussell said:

Seems flawed to me as the snow may be where that particular tyre excels so the results aren't representative.

It still took nearly 9 metres longer to stop than the winning Conti in the 2012 test in the snow - 31m v 39.7m from 50kph is quite a margin.

[HustleRussell]

I agree, I'm not saying that it's a great tyre, I'm just saying that 40th place in that particular test might not be representative.

[jagnet]

It could simply be that the 195/65/15 for the 2013 test doesn't work as well relative to other brands as the 205/55/16 used in the 2012 test. Or the weather was a little warmer/colder, or there was more or less water depth between the two years. Or there could have been changes to the construction of the tyre.

It's a shame - I'd really like to see Avon doing well.

[With these feet]

tenohfive said:

SkepticSteve said:

When I get the chance I am going to do an 80km Emergency Stop on a wet road and measure the stopping distance, I'll report back.

Unless you're driving their test car - or are planning on repeating it with a series of other winter tyres at the same time - then you're just going to end up with a meaningless number. If you're happy with the performance you get from the Avon's though then that's good enough I would have thought.

The tests are an indication of what the tyres worked like on the test vehicle, different weight, brake bias, weight distribution, weight transfer.
One of the things we get race drivers to do is find their level of grip - find an empty part of the circuit and stamp hard till the abs cuts in. Keep doing it until you get a feel for it. Then, if at some time you need to use the full amount of stopping force, you have something of an idea of what to expect.

Just because it worked well on a FWD car on German snow doesnt mean its how it might behave on a RWD car on UK slush.

Besides, if you need to brake really hard on snow its probably going to be the know-it-all-drivig-god on summers that hits you from behind!

"Of course I couldnt stop - youve got winter tyres on"

[JagXJR]

Ran the car with budget Winters on the front for a month, now fitted budget Winter rears to match. In all that time no fuss or drama except once coming round a corner with negative camber onto a straight and gave it full beans, could feel a bit of a squirm but traction control light absent. Is 4WD though so would not expect any wheel spin TBH.


Actually think it has more grip than the partly knackered (fully in the front's case) budget summers that came with the car.

Am running it on same (32) psi recommended for the Summers, not sure whether to put a bit more in or not?