RE: Ford Focus RS vs. Honda Civic Type R
Discussion
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I had a test drive in an XKR and the salesman switched on the sport mode and whatever suspension mode that's a bit stiffer and told me to give it beans. It was a straight road however, but a bit wet and some traffic about so there wasn't really scope to really try it. rb5er said:
Steven, please do me a favour when you next get a drive in it but obviously be careful.
No traffic (errr private road or track
), TC off, slightly damp, cold tyres and give it a little fling out of a wide junction only at low speed and let everyone know what happens.
Would be much appreciated if you would have a little test as I could be waiting 3 months or 10 months, who knows.
Please be careful as you might not expect what happens.
You can do that in any 4wd car. I remember doing it in a Mazda 6MPS and those only have 256bhp. Spectacular snatch oversteer as soon as the fronts detected slip and the haled engaged! No traffic (errr private road or track
), TC off, slightly damp, cold tyres and give it a little fling out of a wide junction only at low speed and let everyone know what happens.Would be much appreciated if you would have a little test as I could be waiting 3 months or 10 months, who knows.
Please be careful as you might not expect what happens.
rb5er said:
Steven, please do me a favour and get the focus sideways out of a junction.
Sure thing. It was always on the agenda anyway, I just happened to be presented with mega hot sunny day on a bank holiday Monday when I drove it. Thanks for all the attempts to not encourage me to hurt myself. I'm relatively capable behind the wheel. Others may disagree ;-).
Out of interest, what "mode" was it in? Standard, sport, track or drift? I appreciate you are asking for TC off.
RW
Ali_T said:
You can do that in any 4wd car. I remember doing it in a Mazda 6MPS and those only have 256bhp. Spectacular snatch oversteer as soon as the fronts detected slip and the haled engaged!
No you can't. I have 2 awd cars (1 haldex & 1 fulltime) both with similar power to weight ratios to this and neither of them ever behave like that. It was more like a friends e46 m3 in how the back came round.If I remember correctly the mazda6 mps was quite rear biassed compared to many awd systems.
Well this was a lot closer! Lucky that FRS has launch control & awd!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKCZPDHeBcs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKCZPDHeBcs
As a future focus RS owner, I'm getting more than a little hacked off at all the videos from a dig. Yes, yes, I know a Focus RS will demolish any FWD car out the hole, I don't need to see a million videos showing the same thing....let's see some 30-100mph+ runs where we can actual gauge rolling performance (also, where possible manual vs manual).
FWIW, in my view the Cupra, Type-R, Golf R, S3 and FRS are all much about the same performance wise. The AMG45 and RS3 are the category above and (I hope) a fully warrantied Mountune FRS will move into AMG45/RS3 teritory. Regards the Cupra, don't be sucked in by the 280 or 290 badge, these have had Golf R power (itself usually 310bhp) since day 1.
FWIW, in my view the Cupra, Type-R, Golf R, S3 and FRS are all much about the same performance wise. The AMG45 and RS3 are the category above and (I hope) a fully warrantied Mountune FRS will move into AMG45/RS3 teritory. Regards the Cupra, don't be sucked in by the 280 or 290 badge, these have had Golf R power (itself usually 310bhp) since day 1.
Splats said:
As a future focus RS owner, I'm getting more than a little hacked off at all the videos from a dig. Yes, yes, I know a Focus RS will demolish any FWD car out the hole, I don't need to see a million videos showing the same thing....let's see some 30-100mph+ runs where we can actual gauge rolling performance (also, where possible manual vs manual).
Apologies, I don't control what videos are posted unfortunately.AMGJocky said:
Well this was a lot closer! Lucky that FRS has launch control & awd!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKCZPDHeBcs
Oh yes, a good getaway. Lucky the Seat has dsg too or it would have been an even bigger margin.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKCZPDHeBcs
Splats said:
As a future focus RS owner, I'm getting more than a little hacked off at all the videos from a dig. Yes, yes, I know a Focus RS will demolish any FWD car out the hole, I don't need to see a million videos showing the same thing....let's see some 30-100mph+ runs where we can actual gauge rolling performance (also, where possible manual vs manual).
FWIW, in my view the Cupra, Type-R, Golf R, S3 and FRS are all much about the same performance wise. The AMG45 and RS3 are the category above and (I hope) a fully warrantied Mountune FRS will move into AMG45/RS3 teritory. Regards the Cupra, don't be sucked in by the 280 or 290 badge, these have had Golf R power (itself usually 310bhp) since day 1.
The man speaks sense! it has no place in this thread... FWIW, in my view the Cupra, Type-R, Golf R, S3 and FRS are all much about the same performance wise. The AMG45 and RS3 are the category above and (I hope) a fully warrantied Mountune FRS will move into AMG45/RS3 teritory. Regards the Cupra, don't be sucked in by the 280 or 290 badge, these have had Golf R power (itself usually 310bhp) since day 1.
Some interesting quotes from Evo on the Civic R:
"It’s when the unexpected happens that the Type R undermines your confidence. A sudden bump mid-corner when pushing on can upset the rear axle: it never leads to anything dramatic, and there’s the ESP watching over you in any case, but it’s enough to grab your attention. The same goes for the steering assistance, which occasionally feels false over a sudden crest or slick surface."
I think the Evo folks are a more through in their analysis of the handling of these type cars, they- mostly- always have been. j
"It’s when the unexpected happens that the Type R undermines your confidence. A sudden bump mid-corner when pushing on can upset the rear axle: it never leads to anything dramatic, and there’s the ESP watching over you in any case, but it’s enough to grab your attention. The same goes for the steering assistance, which occasionally feels false over a sudden crest or slick surface."
I think the Evo folks are a more through in their analysis of the handling of these type cars, they- mostly- always have been. j
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Actually what Evo are saying is simply that the confidence in the car is not quite up to what it should be. Most don't care too much about this aspect of handling as it usually doesn't matter that much, but sometimes i'd say it does. I think what their pointing to is not just the cart rear suspension- yes like a Megane, but that the civic is too tightly sprung and that the Civic has steering that doesn't allow you to know enough when the going gets tough. Most auto publications never discuss any of these nuances and mostly stick to basic handling and the overall feeling of the drive. Thats a shame.
Edited by jl4069 on Friday 17th June 01:27
So it looks as though the one thing the focus will be used for its not actually that great at!
https://youtu.be/vlwDvXLNZc8
https://youtu.be/vlwDvXLNZc8
JoeMarano said:
So it looks as though the one thing the focus will be used for its not actually that great at!
https://youtu.be/vlwDvXLNZc8
a) It's used 99.99999% of the time as a road car, not a drag carhttps://youtu.be/vlwDvXLNZc8
b) 99.99% of owners will never take it to the strip (or the track for that matter)
c) It's not designed to be a drag car, it would have DCT for a start if Ford were chasing acceleration figures
d) In line with the above, it would also have shorter ratios
e) Why go to the expense of fitting a torque vectoring 4WD system if all you wanted was 4WD traction for getting off the line
f) Look at the wide variation in times, the driver [because it's manual] is a key component in getting good times
Regards that last point, this is not an issue with AWD DCT cars where the driver pins the throttle and steers straight.
What the car was designed for and is widely regarded as great at is being involving and fun to drive. If that's what you are after, brilliant. If you want to go fast in a straight line get a Golf R DSG and Stage 2 it. Better yet, take your £30-odd grand and Buy this. Trust me, you'll demolish pretty much anything in a straight-line (except maybe stock AMG 45s).
Edited by Splats on Friday 17th June 11:08
JoeMarano said:
So it looks as though the one thing the focus will be used for its not actually that great at!
https://youtu.be/vlwDvXLNZc8
Is this a joke post? Surely not serious? It's not a drag car, its certainly is a fun car though.https://youtu.be/vlwDvXLNZc8
Well it's been a recurring theme in this thread that the focus is AWD so should have better traction yet it looks like even though it has more power than a Golf R it's not quite as good at the whole drag racing/traffic light GP as has been claimed.
Either way I thought it was an interesting video...
Either way I thought it was an interesting video...
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