Discussion
I've just been out for a drive (the roof was down of course 
) and it's 9 degrees C. No drama or wheels spinning on a set of Nokian WRD3s at full throttle in VTEC. Just a caveat to the stories of using them in temperatures like these. They also only had 20 miles on them before that drive.
I await the no torque responses.
Photos of my home refurbished 16" wheels on the car.
The condition I bought them in...
) and it's 9 degrees C. No drama or wheels spinning on a set of Nokian WRD3s at full throttle in VTEC. Just a caveat to the stories of using them in temperatures like these. They also only had 20 miles on them before that drive.I await the no torque responses.
Photos of my home refurbished 16" wheels on the car.
The condition I bought them in...
Have we seen this yet?
Fwd winter tyres V 4wd summer tyres on snow....
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66692/winter...
Fwd winter tyres V 4wd summer tyres on snow....
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66692/winter...
4lf4-155 said:
Have we seen this yet?
Fwd winter tyres V 4wd summer tyres on snow....
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66692/winter...
I think by now even the tribes in the Amazon rainforest get the idea that winter tyres work on snow.Fwd winter tyres V 4wd summer tyres on snow....
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/66692/winter...
I've spent two of the last three weekends in France/Belgium/Holland.
One thing I've noticed that at motorway speeds on the smooth (ie smoother texture then I've seen in the UK) surfaces you get over there that the tyre noise is very much higher, to the point that its intrusive. At first I thought I had a mechanical problem, but it changes with surface.
One thing I've noticed that at motorway speeds on the smooth (ie smoother texture then I've seen in the UK) surfaces you get over there that the tyre noise is very much higher, to the point that its intrusive. At first I thought I had a mechanical problem, but it changes with surface.
4lf4-155 said:
I was surprised how much better they were than a 4wd system, all be it a rudimentary one.
Were you really? It was always obvious how much better they would be. All a 4x4 system does is let you sit there spinning all 4 wheels instead of just 2. If you have the wrong tyres on its just going to go round and round 
Point is we know that but the great unwashed don't. Every winter there had been some decent snow therewere always requests that 4wd vehicles be added to the company car list.
Every time it was pointed out the truth of if you have zero traction from two wheel drive then twice zero is still zero. Plus if zero traction then zero braking possible and probably on a heavier vehicle.
If it was a genuine business issue for people they got winter tyres but availability / permission was like getting the jewels out of the Tower of London.
Every time it was pointed out the truth of if you have zero traction from two wheel drive then twice zero is still zero. Plus if zero traction then zero braking possible and probably on a heavier vehicle.
If it was a genuine business issue for people they got winter tyres but availability / permission was like getting the jewels out of the Tower of London.
Well I spoke to Yokohama and they are going to take the tyres back and inspect them. I don't think there's actually anything wrong with them (apart from them being s
t) so I'm sure I will still have the hassle of Ebaying them but at least it eliminates any doubt.
If they could do a partial refund I'd be happy - I cannot be ar5ed to try ad sell them on!
t) so I'm sure I will still have the hassle of Ebaying them but at least it eliminates any doubt.If they could do a partial refund I'd be happy - I cannot be ar5ed to try ad sell them on!
FiF said:
Point is we know that but the great unwashed don't. Every winter there had been some decent snow therewere always requests that 4wd vehicles be added to the company car list.
Every time it was pointed out the truth of if you have zero traction from two wheel drive then twice zero is still zero. Plus if zero traction then zero braking possible and probably on a heavier vehicle.
If it was a genuine business issue for people they got winter tyres but availability / permission was like getting the jewels out of the Tower of London.
When we had the difficult snow fall a few years ago I had an impreza with t1rs on it. It was brilliant in the snow, far better than any 2wd car I've had. Granted braking was the same (although engine braked descents on hills was more controlled) but I don't agree with the idea that a 4wd car can't help.Every time it was pointed out the truth of if you have zero traction from two wheel drive then twice zero is still zero. Plus if zero traction then zero braking possible and probably on a heavier vehicle.
If it was a genuine business issue for people they got winter tyres but availability / permission was like getting the jewels out of the Tower of London.
dern said:
FiF said:
Point is we know that but the great unwashed don't. Every winter there had been some decent snow therewere always requests that 4wd vehicles be added to the company car list.
Every time it was pointed out the truth of if you have zero traction from two wheel drive then twice zero is still zero. Plus if zero traction then zero braking possible and probably on a heavier vehicle.
If it was a genuine business issue for people they got winter tyres but availability / permission was like getting the jewels out of the Tower of London.
When we had the difficult snow fall a few years ago I had an impreza with t1rs on it. It was brilliant in the snow, far better than any 2wd car I've had. Granted braking was the same (although engine braked descents on hills was more controlled) but I don't agree with the idea that a 4wd car can't help.Every time it was pointed out the truth of if you have zero traction from two wheel drive then twice zero is still zero. Plus if zero traction then zero braking possible and probably on a heavier vehicle.
If it was a genuine business issue for people they got winter tyres but availability / permission was like getting the jewels out of the Tower of London.
However all wheel drive isn't a cure all, which was the point, some (too many) people think it is.
In some circumstances it could make things worse, downhill, sheet ice, heavier vehicle. I've had that situation on top spec winters and it still needed every bit of driving experience and knowledge of where best to find grip to keep out of trouble. One of the most slippery occasions I've encountered the biggest threat being from other vehicles, not me losing it. to be fair.
Likewise winters aren't a cure all. It all depends, back round to devil in the detail argument. Sorry.
Just had a nice "warm weather report" written of the new Dunnlop Winter Response 2s for me you lot might enjoy:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Long-Term-Run...
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Long-Term-Run...
FiF said:
Obviously, as always, the devil is in the detail. It can help, a bit, or a lot, it all depends on the exact problem that has to be overcome, circles round to the devil in the detail issue.
However all wheel drive isn't a cure all, which was the point, some (too many) people think it is.
In some circumstances it could make things worse, downhill, sheet ice, heavier vehicle. I've had that situation on top spec winters and it still needed every bit of driving experience and knowledge of where best to find grip to keep out of trouble. One of the most slippery occasions I've encountered the biggest threat being from other vehicles, not me losing it. to be fair.
Likewise winters aren't a cure all. It all depends, back round to devil in the detail argument. Sorry.
Uh-huh. Based on actual experience I'll still take one.However all wheel drive isn't a cure all, which was the point, some (too many) people think it is.
In some circumstances it could make things worse, downhill, sheet ice, heavier vehicle. I've had that situation on top spec winters and it still needed every bit of driving experience and knowledge of where best to find grip to keep out of trouble. One of the most slippery occasions I've encountered the biggest threat being from other vehicles, not me losing it. to be fair.
Likewise winters aren't a cure all. It all depends, back round to devil in the detail argument. Sorry.
dern said:
When we had the difficult snow fall a few years ago I had an impreza with t1rs on it. It was brilliant in the snow, far better than any 2wd car I've had. Granted braking was the same (although engine braked descents on hills was more controlled) but I don't agree with the idea that a 4wd car can't help.
Fully agree, last year my Legacy saloon got up some hills that I thought would be impossible, helped no doubt that the tyres had plenty of tread on. I'm talking proper hill not slopes. Only got stuck once, on a hill with a 90 degree bend on it near the bottom so no run up possible 
How many people are running summers on 3 or 4mm of tread in Winter and wonder why they struggle?
Of course Winters being purpose made for the job are going to be better, but if you can't get people to use tyres with plenty of tread on then how are you going to get them to invest in Winters?
End of the day, 4WD is better than 2WD for traction, Winters are better than Summers in the snow. Thus 2WD with decent Winters is better than 4WD with Summers, how much better is the question.
Would anyone try the Paris-Dakar Rally with road tryes on? I think not
JagXJR said:
Fully agree, last year my Legacy saloon got up some hills that I thought would be impossible, helped no doubt that the tyres had plenty of tread on. I'm talking proper hill not slopes. Only got stuck once, on a hill with a 90 degree bend on it near the bottom so no run up possible
How many people are running summers on 3 or 4mm of tread in Winter and wonder why they struggle?
Of course Winters being purpose made for the job are going to be better, but if you can't get people to use tyres with plenty of tread on then how are you going to get them to invest in Winters?
End of the day, 4WD is better than 2WD for traction, Winters are better than Summers in the snow. Thus 2WD with decent Winters is better than 4WD with Summers, how much better is the question.
Would anyone try the Paris-Dakar Rally with road tryes on? I think not
Traction aside, massively.How many people are running summers on 3 or 4mm of tread in Winter and wonder why they struggle?
Of course Winters being purpose made for the job are going to be better, but if you can't get people to use tyres with plenty of tread on then how are you going to get them to invest in Winters?
End of the day, 4WD is better than 2WD for traction, Winters are better than Summers in the snow. Thus 2WD with decent Winters is better than 4WD with Summers, how much better is the question.
Would anyone try the Paris-Dakar Rally with road tryes on? I think not
Due to a combination of circumstance (my summers are well worn, I want some decent sports orientated tyres for next year and I have a spare set of alloys), I’ve ended up with some “all season” Vredestein Quatrac 3s on the Panda 100HP. I made a straight swap from Vredestein Sportrac 3s and using an almost identical size (195/50/15s). Easy to make a comparison.
I swapped the wheels over straight after an afternoon at Goodwood, so was expecting the worse as I drove away from the circuit. However, after a couple of hundred miles in damp / slippery / fairly mild conditions I’m not at all disappointed. The sidewalls are certainly softer (so much less precise) and the parking distance is definitely longer, but they are predictable, no worse than your average summer tyre and don’t ruin the driving experience. At the moment it seems they could be the perfect compromise tyre for our winters, and will be interesting when the temperatures drop further. I wouldn’t use them in the summer months, but can understand why some people would.
BUT, would I want to be on anything more winter orientated? I’m certainly not convinced at the moment. I definitely wouldn’t want to give anything else away in terms of driving experience and braking. This would be magnified in anything with more power and if downsizing the tyre size. The weather “down south” doesn’t justify it for me, especially when I don’t have to travel if the weather turns extreme.
I swapped the wheels over straight after an afternoon at Goodwood, so was expecting the worse as I drove away from the circuit. However, after a couple of hundred miles in damp / slippery / fairly mild conditions I’m not at all disappointed. The sidewalls are certainly softer (so much less precise) and the parking distance is definitely longer, but they are predictable, no worse than your average summer tyre and don’t ruin the driving experience. At the moment it seems they could be the perfect compromise tyre for our winters, and will be interesting when the temperatures drop further. I wouldn’t use them in the summer months, but can understand why some people would.
BUT, would I want to be on anything more winter orientated? I’m certainly not convinced at the moment. I definitely wouldn’t want to give anything else away in terms of driving experience and braking. This would be magnified in anything with more power and if downsizing the tyre size. The weather “down south” doesn’t justify it for me, especially when I don’t have to travel if the weather turns extreme.
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