Discussion
Patrick Bateman said:
JagXJR said:
Fully agree, last year my Legacy saloon got up some hills that I thought would be impossible, helped no doubt that the tyres had plenty of tread on. I'm talking proper hill not slopes. Only got stuck once, on a hill with a 90 degree bend on it near the bottom so no run up possible 
How many people are running summers on 3 or 4mm of tread in Winter and wonder why they struggle?
Of course Winters being purpose made for the job are going to be better, but if you can't get people to use tyres with plenty of tread on then how are you going to get them to invest in Winters?
End of the day, 4WD is better than 2WD for traction, Winters are better than Summers in the snow. Thus 2WD with decent Winters is better than 4WD with Summers, how much better is the question.
Would anyone try the Paris-Dakar Rally with road tryes on? I think not
Traction aside, massively.How many people are running summers on 3 or 4mm of tread in Winter and wonder why they struggle?
Of course Winters being purpose made for the job are going to be better, but if you can't get people to use tyres with plenty of tread on then how are you going to get them to invest in Winters?
End of the day, 4WD is better than 2WD for traction, Winters are better than Summers in the snow. Thus 2WD with decent Winters is better than 4WD with Summers, how much better is the question.
Would anyone try the Paris-Dakar Rally with road tryes on? I think not
FiF said:
The total focus on traction and emphasis on not getting stuck in that earlier post, with the exclusion of all the other issues under discussion, rather makes the point about general public's limited view on 4wd.
That's the bit that gets me as well with the AWD obsession in the UK. Not getting going is generally going to be no more than an inconvenience for me; not stopping or steering in the direction I want is likely to have more serious consequences.In a recent Evo test, the Conti Sport Contact had MUCH better braking distance in the wet than all the Winter tyres they tested. And from my limited experience of Winters and massive experience of Contis, they were right.
While I'm sure they are far superior in snow and ice, we get very little here and my experience of Winter tyres (good ones) has been pretty bad and was an expensive mistake. If I'd known how useless they were in warmer conditions, I wouldn't have bothered as I have access to a Defender if it gets really bad.
While I'm sure they are far superior in snow and ice, we get very little here and my experience of Winter tyres (good ones) has been pretty bad and was an expensive mistake. If I'd known how useless they were in warmer conditions, I wouldn't have bothered as I have access to a Defender if it gets really bad.
Zigster said:
FiF said:
The total focus on traction and emphasis on not getting stuck in that earlier post, with the exclusion of all the other issues under discussion, rather makes the point about general public's limited view on 4wd.
That's the bit that gets me as well with the AWD obsession in the UK. Not getting going is generally going to be no more than an inconvenience for me; not stopping or steering in the direction I want is likely to have more serious consequences.Vladimir said:
....I wouldn't have bothered as I have access to a Defender if it gets really bad.
Is that wintertyrewang?Vladimir said:
In a recent Evo test, the Conti Sport Contact had MUCH better braking distance in the wet than all the Winter tyres they tested. And from my limited experience of Winters and massive experience of Contis, they were right.
Which test was this?Evo 2011 Winter Tyre Test-
Wet Tests (sub 7deg C)
Top five:
1. Pirelli Sottozero W240 Serie 2 (96.9%)
2. Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 P (96.6%)
3. Michelin Alpin A4 (95.6%)
4. Hankook Optimo 4S (94.5%)
5. Goodyear UltraGrip Performance 2 (94.3%)
The compound and tread design of winter and all-season tyres is claimed to give them significant advantages over summer tyres on cold, wet asphalt. On a wet handling circuit a few degree off zero, we saw mixed results. The top five tyres, including the Hankook all-season, showed superior pace to the summer tyre but the summer was eighth fastest, out-performing the Nankang (winter) and Kumho (all-season). Braking from 50mph on wet, cold asphalt the summer tyre is dead last and 7m behind the best, but in the straight and curved aquaplane tests the wide-grooved summer tyre tops the tables.
Dry Tests
Top five:
1. Continental ContiSportContact 3 (98.1%)
2. Vredestein Quatrac 3 (94.3%)
3. Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 P (94.1%)
4. Hankook Optimo 4S (93.2%)
5. *Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D Succ (93.0%)
As expected, the Continental summer tyre is fastest on the dry handling circuit and in dry braking. The margins, however, are not as big as you might expect - about 3 per cent over the next fastest on the circuit and about 10 per cent braking from 50mph. Next best In both cases was the all-season Vredestein, though the winter Continental wasn't far behind. However, the feel of the winter and all-season tyres was noticeably inferior to the summer tyre.
Patrick Bateman said:
Which test was this?
Evo 2011 Winter Tyre Test-
Wet Tests (sub 7deg C)
Top five:
1. Pirelli Sottozero W240 Serie 2 (96.9%)
2. Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 P (96.6%)
3. Michelin Alpin A4 (95.6%)
4. Hankook Optimo 4S (94.5%)
5. Goodyear UltraGrip Performance 2 (94.3%)
The compound and tread design of winter and all-season tyres is claimed to give them significant advantages over summer tyres on cold, wet asphalt. On a wet handling circuit a few degree off zero, we saw mixed results. The top five tyres, including the Hankook all-season, showed superior pace to the summer tyre but the summer was eighth fastest, out-performing the Nankang (winter) and Kumho (all-season). Braking from 50mph on wet, cold asphalt the summer tyre is dead last and 7m behind the best, but in the straight and curved aquaplane tests the wide-grooved summer tyre tops the tables.
Dry Tests
Top five:
1. Continental ContiSportContact 3 (98.1%)
2. Vredestein Quatrac 3 (94.3%)
3. Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 P (94.1%)
4. Hankook Optimo 4S (93.2%)
5. *Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D Succ (93.0%)
As expected, the Continental summer tyre is fastest on the dry handling circuit and in dry braking. The margins, however, are not as big as you might expect - about 3 per cent over the next fastest on the circuit and about 10 per cent braking from 50mph. Next best In both cases was the all-season Vredestein, though the winter Continental wasn't far behind. However, the feel of the winter and all-season tyres was noticeably inferior to the summer tyre.
They didn't test the contisport contact in the wet! Evo 2011 Winter Tyre Test-
Wet Tests (sub 7deg C)
Top five:
1. Pirelli Sottozero W240 Serie 2 (96.9%)
2. Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 P (96.6%)
3. Michelin Alpin A4 (95.6%)
4. Hankook Optimo 4S (94.5%)
5. Goodyear UltraGrip Performance 2 (94.3%)
The compound and tread design of winter and all-season tyres is claimed to give them significant advantages over summer tyres on cold, wet asphalt. On a wet handling circuit a few degree off zero, we saw mixed results. The top five tyres, including the Hankook all-season, showed superior pace to the summer tyre but the summer was eighth fastest, out-performing the Nankang (winter) and Kumho (all-season). Braking from 50mph on wet, cold asphalt the summer tyre is dead last and 7m behind the best, but in the straight and curved aquaplane tests the wide-grooved summer tyre tops the tables.
Dry Tests
Top five:
1. Continental ContiSportContact 3 (98.1%)
2. Vredestein Quatrac 3 (94.3%)
3. Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 P (94.1%)
4. Hankook Optimo 4S (93.2%)
5. *Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D Succ (93.0%)
As expected, the Continental summer tyre is fastest on the dry handling circuit and in dry braking. The margins, however, are not as big as you might expect - about 3 per cent over the next fastest on the circuit and about 10 per cent braking from 50mph. Next best In both cases was the all-season Vredestein, though the winter Continental wasn't far behind. However, the feel of the winter and all-season tyres was noticeably inferior to the summer tyre.
Patrick Bateman said:
They did. They've only posted the top 5.
There's the ContiWinter contact but not the sport in the wetThey tested the ContiSport contact in the dry
ETA infact..."Braking from 50mph on wet, cold asphalt the summer tyre is dead last and 7m behind the best"
Edited by PoleDriver on Monday 9th December 14:39
Patrick Bateman said:
PoleDriver said:
There's the ContiWinter contact but not the sport in the wet
They tested the ContiSport contact in the dry
Again, they've posted the top 5 only.They tested the ContiSport contact in the dry
The Contisport contact is there in the dry because it's in the top 5, it isn't in the top 5 in the wet tests though.
I think you're confusing me with Vlad.
Maybe I should have just posted this- http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/274177/evo_2011_...
Maybe I should have just posted this- http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/274177/evo_2011_...
Patrick Bateman said:
I think you're confusing me with Vlad.
Maybe I should have just posted this- http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/274177/evo_2011_...
OOpppsMaybe I should have just posted this- http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/274177/evo_2011_...
Sorry!
Winter tyres don't give up just cause of the temperature. I went out yesterday with a few friends who used summer tyres and I had no trouble keeping up. Around 12c all afternoon, lots of puddles to splash about in. In fact a few of them mentioned wheel spin coming out of some of the hairpins but I had no such issues.
The other thing I would mention is that at the moment, especially if the surface is very slightly damp, some, but not all, roads are unbelievably greasy.
Obviously it depends upon the circumstances but, based on recent journeys, for first time users to write off the winter tyre concept as a mistake could be premature.
Obviously it depends upon the circumstances but, based on recent journeys, for first time users to write off the winter tyre concept as a mistake could be premature.
Patrick Bateman said:
Which test was this?
Evo 2011 Winter Tyre Test-
Wet Tests (sub 7deg C)
Top five:
1. Pirelli Sottozero W240 Serie 2 (96.9%)
2. Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 P (96.6%)
3. Michelin Alpin A4 (95.6%)
4. Hankook Optimo 4S (94.5%)
5. Goodyear UltraGrip Performance 2 (94.3%)
The compound and tread design of winter and all-season tyres is claimed to give them significant advantages over summer tyres on cold, wet asphalt. On a wet handling circuit a few degree off zero, we saw mixed results. The top five tyres, including the Hankook all-season, showed superior pace to the summer tyre but the summer was eighth fastest, out-performing the Nankang (winter) and Kumho (all-season). Braking from 50mph on wet, cold asphalt the summer tyre is dead last and 7m behind the best, but in the straight and curved aquaplane tests the wide-grooved summer tyre tops the tables.
7m stopping distance difference between the best winter tyre and the summer tyre. Thats a far smaller margin than the difference in UHP tests between a top UHP tyre, like that Conti, and something like a Kumho yet you get burnt at the stake for suggesting Kumho's are crap and told the differences are slight in some threads on here..Evo 2011 Winter Tyre Test-
Wet Tests (sub 7deg C)
Top five:
1. Pirelli Sottozero W240 Serie 2 (96.9%)
2. Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830 P (96.6%)
3. Michelin Alpin A4 (95.6%)
4. Hankook Optimo 4S (94.5%)
5. Goodyear UltraGrip Performance 2 (94.3%)
The compound and tread design of winter and all-season tyres is claimed to give them significant advantages over summer tyres on cold, wet asphalt. On a wet handling circuit a few degree off zero, we saw mixed results. The top five tyres, including the Hankook all-season, showed superior pace to the summer tyre but the summer was eighth fastest, out-performing the Nankang (winter) and Kumho (all-season). Braking from 50mph on wet, cold asphalt the summer tyre is dead last and 7m behind the best, but in the straight and curved aquaplane tests the wide-grooved summer tyre tops the tables.
Vladimir said:
my experience of Winter tyres (good ones) has been pretty bad and was an expensive mistake. If I'd known how useless they were in warmer conditions, I wouldn't have bothered as I have access to a Defender if it gets really bad.
The Yokohama tyres are mid range winters - the Conti TS850 or TS830P would have been a fairer comparison if you ordinarily run Continental summer tyres.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff