Mk1 Focus RS vs EP3

[Martin_Hx]

Made this decision myself 5 years ago, went for the civic which I still have. The Ford will cost more to run but has the rarity and resale value, plus it still looks great today.

I just hated the interior ! Which ever you go for im sure you will have a great drivers car

[danneth]

I had a ep3 CTR for a couple of years and a few mates had the FRS, both good cars but very different.

I'm now in a 3 MPS, if you like the looks you really should consider one, specs wise and performance and value for money alot better than either of the options you are looking at.

[LuS1fer]

currybum said:

I think the comment was taken too literally.

The point was that dependent on where you use the car there may not be many places where you can actually feel the benefits of having the 200ps available on the civic, as you have to be at high revs to access it. You will be getting about 100ps at 5,000rpm in the civic whereas with the turbo charged Mk1 Focus you get that at ~1600rpm.

In terms of day to day drivability, low down torque is generally better than high revving power delivery. If you are using it for track days or drive mostly on open roads then high revving NA engine may be a better fit. If you never get above 5000rpm the turbo option may be better.

It comes down to personal preference....but 200ps in a NA engine is a very different driving experience than 200ps in a TC engine.

You're just as likely to be off boost in a turbocharged car. It's why I despise turbodiesels and will always take the linear delivery of a n/a. That's why they have gearboxes and the Honda has a switchblade-fast 'box. I was always taught to be in the right gear at the right time based on the conditions. Are today's drivers really so lazy?

I have a Fiesta ST with a "paltry" 150hp and have never come across a situation where even 4th gear wasn't good enough to make sufficient progress and I enjoy shifting gear. No wonder they're inflicting automatic gearboxes on us.

[Mastodon2]

Sir_Dave said:

As the only option in the OP's original post is the FRS, i would go for that. Havent driven one, but the CTR is pap imho. How can you lean on a car when you have no idea which way the front wheels are facing?

I suppose remembering which way you turned the steering wheel and which way the car is actually turning aren't enough of a clue then?

[Daston]

Have you tried Sky insurance they specialise in Jap cars.

I had my first Mk4 supra when I was 19 and they insured me with out any problems, can't imagine a DC5 being more of a risk.

[GreatGranny]

wackojacko said:

Blimey no one slating him for his age, insurance etc.....is PH Ok ?

My issue would be spunking £10k on a car plus £2k a year on insurance when he's at Uni! That pays for a lot of alchohol, food, accommodation etc...
Why? When I was a student I was always either too drunk or too busy with "studies" to have much time to actually drive. I got a Mini in my final year and it stood still for weeks at a time. Only came in use going home in the holidays.

[Mastodon2]

currybum said:

In terms of day to day drivability, low down torque is generally better than high revving power delivery.

Is it though? I don't have any problem with the "drivability" of my Type R and I've had turbo cars with much more power and torque previously. If you are worried that you can't hit the VTEC around town then I think you need to assess your driving - most turbocharged cars I've driven don't tend to really get shifting until they are above 40mph and beyond the boost threshold anyway, and 40mph is when VTEC engages in second gear in the Civic. I don't know where you do your "around town" driving but most of the towns and cities I drive in have 20, 30 and 40mph limits and enough traffic to make getting your foot down pointless. You don't need to be going that fast in town, unless you really love racing from traffic light to traffic light in the city centre.

As for feeling daft revving the nuts off a Type R in town (if you really must) I wouldn't worry, as they are so quiet as standard I doubt anyone would notice anyway, the actual speed of your vehicle as your bolt off down the road on the VTEC would be quite obvious though, particularly to any police or CCTV operators who might be watching.

[s m]

SuperchargedVR6 said:

s m said:

Baryonyx said:

(and rumours abound that some of the front LSD's were set up incorrectly on some of the cars leaving the factory)

That was something Neil Briggs alluded to although he didn't say whether it was a different oil spec or washers etc..

I asked Max Torque about it but don't think he said much about it although he did mention tyre issues etc which was interesting

Isn't it just a Quaife ATB? There is nothing to 'set up' in those that I can see. It's all done by gears. Plated diffs I can see needing set up, but you'd be bonkers to use one in a FWD road car imo. I fitted a Quaife to my Corrado VR6 Turbo and it then exhibited exactly the same kind of lane swapping torque steer antics as the Focus.

It is a Quaife, yes, but like many of these torque apportioning diffs, the characteristics can be varied by the gear angle or even the transmission oil spec. I was just interested to hear what the RS Focus development engineers did, if anything, in the way of tailoring it to the car ( seeing as they mentioned it on a number of occasions ) Interestingly, one of those engineers went on to work with the Ariel Atom and a tailored diff was developed for that car although an off-the-shelf one could have been used.

The torque apportioning diff in a Rover Tomcat Turbo will behave differently to the one in an Integra DC2, although both are there with the intention of improving traction

Incidentally, Vauxhall do use plate-type diffs in front wheel drive road cars

[irocfan]

Mr2Mike said:

Nick_Johnson said:

Marry all of the above with the fact that a decent low milage Type-R Premier will cost you on avarage £3,000 less than a equivalent MK1 Focus RS must mean that the Honda has this in the bag? Right!

Errm No! For all of its flaws the RS is a much better handling car thanks to its propper Hydraulic Power Steering which inspires so much convenience and provides an unrivalled amount of feel through the steering wheel, something of which Honda can only dream of. Then there is the torque baising differential which helps tuck the nose of the RS into every corner, once it has done this it then allows the driver to exploit all available power much earlier with out spinning it all away which is what happens in the EP3.

For way under 3k you could fit the hydraulic DC5 rack (coupled with an electric PAS pump) and fit an ATB diff to the Civic to fix these two issues (which do spoil an otherwise great car).

all great fun modding cars.... however inscos tend to think a little differently. I rather suspect as soon as the OP mentions the 'M' word his premiums will go stratospheric