Lexus £81,000!!!
Discussion
75_Steve said:
JD Power is all about expectations - for a Mercedes to beat the Lexus, it would have to be faster than a Ferrari, handle like a Porsche, look like a Lamborghini, be more reliable than a passenger airliner and the dealers would have to offer complimentary blow jobs from nubile porn stars when you took it in for a service.
Completely depends on how you look at it.People DO expect Lexus to be high quality and reliable, unknown 10 years ago sure but not now. They ARE high quality and reliable hence the good reviews of people that own them.
Mercedes have, up until the 90s, built quality reliable cars and met the owners expectations. They simply don't anymore. All they need to do it build them as they did and make them reliable and they'll do well. Lexus can do this, Mercedes can't.
Actually, it's worse now as people KNOW Mercs aren't what they used to be (deservedly too) and thus don't have as high expectations anymore. Understandably the less badge orientated buyers are buying Lexus. Lexus weren't around 15/20 years ago so all their buyers have come from somewhere, my bet is many/most of them are ex-merc owners.
Simply, Merc (and to an extent BMW and Audi) don't deserve their high expectations, they need to re-earn it. In terms of quality and ownership experience, Lexus are showing them the way and they need to catch up, esp as people realise that the interiors and driving of the Lexus is right up there and more than reliably wafting.
Edited by Dracoro on Monday 8th October 21:15
Dracoro - I see what you're saying, however.... the example which proves the whole JD Power thing is all about expectations is the Skoda Superb vs Passat B5.5
Essentially, they're the same car - only the Skoda has a few inches more wheelbase and a different grille.
However, the mechanical bits, interior, etc, etc are all absolutely identical.
Only the Skoda gets much higher ratings, including those for the suspension and handling.
People expect the Skoda to be crap, so when it's as good as a Passat, they think it's the best car ever.....
Same-ish applies to the Octavia vs Golf (although this is a bit different 'cos the Octavia is a very different car, despite sharing the same oily bits).
Essentially, they're the same car - only the Skoda has a few inches more wheelbase and a different grille.
However, the mechanical bits, interior, etc, etc are all absolutely identical.
Only the Skoda gets much higher ratings, including those for the suspension and handling.
People expect the Skoda to be crap, so when it's as good as a Passat, they think it's the best car ever.....
Same-ish applies to the Octavia vs Golf (although this is a bit different 'cos the Octavia is a very different car, despite sharing the same oily bits).
What Lexus really need to properly break in to this market is a big arse diesel.
The new 7 and S class are now a lot more common in diesel than petrol from what I can see. The hybrid Lexus is all well and good in the city when hybrid systems are ok, but for stomping the autobahns and motorways, it needs a big diesel like the 730d and S320CDi have.
The new 7 and S class are now a lot more common in diesel than petrol from what I can see. The hybrid Lexus is all well and good in the city when hybrid systems are ok, but for stomping the autobahns and motorways, it needs a big diesel like the 730d and S320CDi have.
emicen said:
What Lexus really need to properly break in to this market is a big arse diesel.
The new 7 and S class are now a lot more common in diesel than petrol from what I can see. The hybrid Lexus is all well and good in the city when hybrid systems are ok, but for stomping the autobahns and motorways, it needs a big diesel like the 730d and S320CDi have.
Are diesels popular in Japan and the US, the key markets for Lexus?The new 7 and S class are now a lot more common in diesel than petrol from what I can see. The hybrid Lexus is all well and good in the city when hybrid systems are ok, but for stomping the autobahns and motorways, it needs a big diesel like the 730d and S320CDi have.
Interesting reading this thread, very divided opinions.
My thoughts... No, the Lexus is not the kind of car to make you wake up early, and want to go hit the redline a few times down your favourite B-road.
It does though, in my eyes, have a certain 'PH' type of appeal to a driver. In that you might wake up early and decide to drive to Switzerland for the weekend. As its about as stressful and difficult as making a coffee and reading the paper.
I love cars like this. There huge, and comfy, and full of technology, and make you feel invincible. its a very different type of driving pleasure, sure, but I do think they have some "PH respect".
And that new one looks brilliant.
snotrag said:
Interesting reading this thread, very divided opinions.
My thoughts... No, the Lexus is not the kind of car to make you wake up early, and want to go hit the redline a few times down your favourite B-road.
It does though, in my eyes, have a certain 'PH' type of appeal to a driver. In that you might wake up early and decide to drive to Switzerland for the weekend. As its about as stressful and difficult as making a coffee and reading the paper.
I love cars like this. There huge, and comfy, and full of technology, and make you feel invincible. its a very different type of driving pleasure, sure, but I do think they have some "PH respect".
And that new one looks brilliant.
The biggest threads I recall on PH:My thoughts... No, the Lexus is not the kind of car to make you wake up early, and want to go hit the redline a few times down your favourite B-road.
It does though, in my eyes, have a certain 'PH' type of appeal to a driver. In that you might wake up early and decide to drive to Switzerland for the weekend. As its about as stressful and difficult as making a coffee and reading the paper.
I love cars like this. There huge, and comfy, and full of technology, and make you feel invincible. its a very different type of driving pleasure, sure, but I do think they have some "PH respect".
And that new one looks brilliant.
"Flemke is this your McLaren" and "Best Barge Bargains". The latter featuring hundred of Lexii LS' and Merc CLs and S' and BMW 7s. The luxurious continent hopping barge is quintisentially PH.
snotrag said:
In that you might wake up early and decide to drive to Switzerland for the weekend. As its about as stressful and difficult as making a coffee and reading the paper.
Perhaps I'm getting older but this does appeal. Maybe I would visit my Dad in Europe more often with a chariot like this.
derestrictor said:
biglepton said:
I ran a company LS400 for most of 1998 and couldn't get rid of it fast enough. It's the perfect car for people who know nothing about cars - reliable, quiet, brisk and plenty of toys. It lacks everything and anything PH. No soul, no character, mediocre handling and zero fun. No one on earth would get up at 4am for a blast in an LS400.
Well that's very strange but then you're talking about the original.*
Yup, I had one of the early 430s whilst simultaneously enjoying the multiplicity of talents served up by metal from Crewe, Hethel, Mizushima and Zuffenhausen.
I'm not sure whether it was the indicated blasts home at well in excess of serious jail time per hour at silly o'clock in the AM, marvelling at the astounding rock poise of the car, something reflected in an equally solid bass line c/o Roger Glover during a Deepest Purple patch which used to haemorrhage up the driver's seat via the Levinson sub thereunder mounted, the best sat nav to date that guided me, or the perfection of the gently swaying air vents which tempered the fevered brow but something, something was nibbling my earlobe to persuade me that this, yes 'slab sided facsimile of an S class' car had a certain je ne sais quoi.
If you think 'fun' the exclusive preserve of skeletal punks in nomex then you misconstrue everything and comprehend nothing that may, just may define the true measure of fully formed PHism.
'Worth' £80k? No more than that Bentley was 'worth' twice that and can now be had for a third of it.
For God's sake, get a bastard grip.
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