Autocar: Tesla Model S vs Aston Martin Rapide S

[DonkeyApple]

Devil2575 said:

Troubleatmill said:

The biggest problem is..


The UK is running at over 95% capacity of the electric power grid.

Successive governments are not investing heavily enough in generating more capacity.
The generating companies are holding fire until it is clear what the UK policy is.

In 2017, it is estimated that we will be at 100% of capacity.

So... how viable is the electric car, when we will be scrabbling to charge our smartphones.


Fully agree that Tesla is impressive. UK energy investment - not so much.

Is it? Even if it is this will obviously refer to peak demand, which is probabaly likely to be highest at the end of a major football game when everyone sticks the kettle on, not when people are charging their cars.

Given that most people will charge their electric cars overnight when demand is low is this really going to be an issue?

I suspect not.

No mention of it being an issue here

http://www.nationalgrid.com/NR/rdonlyres/45D855F7-...

And smart meters will punish the spike users to encourage them to use gas or to desist.

More homes will fit redundancy measures some of which will involve overnight storage etc.

So, the National Grid argument is pointless.

Range will not be an issue for anyone other than the thick who buy a car that doesn't fit their needs. So the range arguement is pointless.

Battery issues? Well, Li mostly comes from tinpot countries of Argentina and Chile. China and Japan have already secured long term rights and neither of these countries are going to screw with China. Plus, as more and more battery packs are made so the cost of recycling them to extract the Li falls closer inline to the primary extraction cost. But, if Li extraction becomes and issue then it will be done for free by an army of Chinamen shipped in to get the job done, just as they harvest resources in Africa. So, batteries are not an issue.

EV's are pig ugly. Not any more.

EV movement has been hijacked by the dangerous extremists. 2013 really has been the year that these nutters have been marginalised from this market and resorted to having to crawl in the dirt to save badgers as their new cause.

So, ultimately, the only current and relevent issue with EVs is that they cost too much. Well, that is hardly an issue as the reality is that we can clearly see an EV is cheaper to build than a ICE car as it has fewer working parts, so this is a function of volumes. Well, what we do know is that as volumes increase then prices are going to fall. As they have been doing for the last few years. Accelerated by increased competition.

So, the one core problem that we face in 2013 is one that is clearly going away and will be fully resolved almost certainly within 5 years.

[98elise]

kambites said:

The Vambo said:

More importantly, that would be 30m huge battery packs, most of which, will be connect to the grid for 90% of the time and will be able to supply as well as draw from the grid.

I don't think I can see that happening in domestic installations - it'd just be too expensive to install synchronised inverters into so many houses. I suppose it might be possible in bit car-parks, etc.

It will be a part of the home charging stations, and they don't cost that much. They are used in PV installations so already well established.

Vehicle batteries as electrical storage is a great way to smooth peak loads. Its especial great with nuclear power, which is no good for sudden changes.

[McWigglebum4th]

kambites said:

Max_Torque said:

I think you need to be a bit careful about the cost comparisons on a purely "fuel" basis, because so much of the price of road fuels in the UK is tax! Although it costs you say £65 to fill up your car with petrol, the fuel actually only costs something less than half of that. As such, comparing the price of non road use electricity is really a bit of a false picture. Yes, in the short term it will be cheaper, but at some point either the electricity used for road transport will attract the tax, or conventional fuels will loose there tax in favour of direct road charging etc!

Can you really see the government dropping road fuel duty if they start to introduce wide-spread road charging? My money is on petrol duty staying roughly as it is (around 50% of the street price) and road charging being introduced as well to cover the short-fall in revenue from falling fuel sales.

You're funny

You think they will reduce petrol taxes



Not a chance

As kambites sayes they will keep petrol taxes at fking stupid with road pricing on top

[bertie]

I appreciate I'm late to this one, but having driven a Model S, it is hugely impressive.

When they go on sale in the UK, with zero Benefit in Kind, you'd need a very odd set of circumstances to buy an S class / A8 / 7 series IMHO

[adamfawsitt]

+1

bertie said:

I appreciate I'm late to this one, but having driven a Model S, it is hugely impressive.

When they go on sale in the UK, with zero Benefit in Kind, you'd need a very odd set of circumstances to buy an S class / A8 / 7 series IMHO

[98elise]

adamfawsitt said:

+1

bertie said:

I appreciate I'm late to this one, but having driven a Model S, it is hugely impressive.

When they go on sale in the UK, with zero Benefit in Kind, you'd need a very odd set of circumstances to buy an S class / A8 / 7 series IMHO

In addition the total cost of ownership should be low. I doubt a Model S will depreciate much, and that might translate into relatively cheap lease deals.

[kambites]

98elise said:

It will be a part of the home charging stations, and they don't cost that much. They are used in PV installations so already well established.

Indeed and I think they are a significant proportion of the installation cost. The last thing electric cars need is to be made even more expensive to buy. There would certainly need to be some sort of financial incentive for allowing your battery to be used to buffer the grid.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 3rd November 10:20