Race and horse transporters banned within M25

[carl_w]

ZZR said:

A vast area of countryside exists within the M25, take Epping Forest for example. a place where many horse enthusiasts and riding schools reside, do they now have to move because they can't/shouldn't be there in your opinion?

Which is interesting, because of course Epping Forest was there before the M25...

[skwdenyer]

MJK 24 said:

As promised, here are the prices I've been quoted.

Vehicle is a 1998 Renault Midliner 7.5 ton with 1,400,000kms showing.

To update to Euro 3 allowing use until 2012 - £3,000 for the kit plus fitting plus VAT.

To update to Euro 4 allowing use beyond 2012 - £4,100 for the kit plus fitting plus VAT.

Much as I disagree with the tactics being used, this does on the face of it look like an effective (if blunt) way of getting improved emissions standards in London. £3,000 to save (potentially up to) £120,000 of "charges" seems like a pretty good carrot - vs - stick equation.

Are there reductions in road fund licence available for HGVs compliant with enhanced emissions standards?

I also suspect that the £3000 investment will not depreciate all that much, which is good.

[MJK 24]

skwdenyer said:

MJK 24 said:

As promised, here are the prices I've been quoted.

Vehicle is a 1998 Renault Midliner 7.5 ton with 1,400,000kms showing.

To update to Euro 3 allowing use until 2012 - £3,000 for the kit plus fitting plus VAT.

To update to Euro 4 allowing use beyond 2012 - £4,100 for the kit plus fitting plus VAT.

Much as I disagree with the tactics being used, this does on the face of it look like an effective (if blunt) way of getting improved emissions standards in London. £3,000 to save (potentially up to) £120,000 of "charges" seems like a pretty good carrot - vs - stick equation.

Are there reductions in road fund licence available for HGVs compliant with enhanced emissions standards?

I also suspect that the £3000 investment will not depreciate all that much, which is good.

No - we're happy enough to cough up. Some weeks we'd be inside the M25 5 days - £1,000. It'll pay for itself in no time and I suspect it'll add near enough £3k onto its value and make it easier to sell.

[Parrot of Doom]

Can't you find a scrapper vehicle with an engine that meets the specs and do a transplant?

[normalbloke]

skwdenyer said:

Weltmeister said:

If you tax the vehicle as PLG then effectively it is now a private vehicle. Ensure you have "Not for hire or reward" on the doors. I have not read the legislation on LEZ but it will be written to encompass company owned/operated commercial vehicles that operate frequently within London/Greater London.

If the vehicle is re-classified as PLG then it is no longer a commercial vehicle

Allan

I'm unsure where you get your information, but I don't see this "exemption" listed on the TfL website. Otherwise, for instance, motor caravans would be exempted.

However, the exemptions listed are:

TfL said:

* Vehicles designed and built for mainly off-road use, but which may be used on the road for limited purposes. Such vehicles include agricultural and forestry tractors, mowing machines, agricultural & farm machinery and equipment, mobile cranes and road & building construction machinery;
* Historic vehicles (those constructed before 1 January 1973); and
* Military vehicles registered in Great Britain.

Given that, as far as I can tell, a well-maintained old truck should go on forever, I suspect simply buying a pre-73 truck could be quite a good bet. If the fuel economy isn't good enough for you, re-engine it with a more modern engine - there could be quite a lucrative business here for a short while :-)

To be honest, in general, I'm in favour of this move, as the particulate levels in London have been horrid for a very long time. What irks me, however, if the imposition of this by TfL without any obvious consultation or debtate. But, much as I dislike Ken, taking tough choices is one of the jobs of the politician in the wider interests of society; this seems to be just such a case.

Cool,so my Unimog is fine....lmao

[normalbloke]

Howitzer said:

Am I right in thinking that this will affect a privately owned Unimog which is classed as an agricultural vehicle?

Dave!

I just punched my VRN in and it's exempt.I have a privately owned 1980 U1000 AG, registered as an agricultural tractor.

Maybe we need to have a trundle in for a laugh,along with anything else likely to p*ss him off(military vehicles etc etc!)

[skwdenyer]

normalbloke said:

Howitzer said:

Am I right in thinking that this will affect a privately owned Unimog which is classed as an agricultural vehicle?

Dave!

I just punched my VRN in and it's exempt.I have a privately owned 1980 U1000 AG, registered as an agricultural tractor.

Maybe we need to have a trundle in for a laugh,along with anything else likely to p*ss him off(military vehicles etc etc!)

Isn't it the case that vehicles can only be registered as agricultural tractors and enjoy the attendant benefits if they are actually being used in agriculture? I thought (and I may well be wrong) that, if caught using for non-agricultural purposes, there was a hefty fine in store.

[stigmundfreud]

lambogenie said:

I recently was on a street that is a border for the CC. If you are driving on this street, you are not liable for the charge. If you turn off the street in the direction of central London, however, you go into the zone.
A side turning off this street was a cul-de-sac mews, no more than 100 metres long. The mews was on the central London side of the border so - you guessed it - there was a full set of these cameras to cover the 100 metres of the cul-de-sac. Pathetic.

I had a overnight stop-over in london recently and staid at the Ibis on Towerbridge road which is a border for the CC zone, i arrived at 1am and was directed to the carpark which was in an entrance off a side street behind the hotel. Next morning, i came out of the car park and turned right and went back on to Tower bridge road and out of London.

I got a fine through for not paying the congestion charge, something like 70 quid for a 5 metre stretch of road between the carpark exit and tower bridge road driving AWAY from the CC>

Needless to say i will never be staying at that hotel again.

The CC has had a huge impact which ken refuses to accept imho, it damages business because i simply won't go in to London any more and use shops and services outside the CC zone instead.

Edited by lambogenie on Saturday 3rd November 10:54

similar to me - entered CC on a Friday night at 6:57 or whatever, basically 3 minutes before the charging ends. I had never been in the CC before knew nothing about it. Woke up on the Saturday saw a poster so tried to pay. I couldnt, as I hadnt paid on the day I entered (3 minutes before the end of the charging time!!!) I had to pay the fine.

I seriously hope red ken comes to a very sticky end

[stigmundfreud]

arent Euro4 vehicles less efficient than 3?

[skwdenyer]

stigmundfreud said:

arent Euro4 vehicles less efficient than 3?

Sounds about right. Any petrol vehicle with a catalytic converter is already less efficient than a 1974 Honda Civic, so the continuation of such madness seems reasonable

[teamHOLDENracing]

skwdenyer said:

MJK 24 said:

As promised, here are the prices I've been quoted.

Vehicle is a 1998 Renault Midliner 7.5 ton with 1,400,000kms showing.

To update to Euro 3 allowing use until 2012 - £3,000 for the kit plus fitting plus VAT.

To update to Euro 4 allowing use beyond 2012 - £4,100 for the kit plus fitting plus VAT.

Much as I disagree with the tactics being used, this does on the face of it look like an effective (if blunt) way of getting improved emissions standards in London. £3,000 to save (potentially up to) £120,000 of "charges" seems like a pretty good carrot - vs - stick equation.

Are there reductions in road fund licence available for HGVs compliant with enhanced emissions standards?

I also suspect that the £3000 investment will not depreciate all that much, which is good.

I fail to see why air quality is more of an issue for someone living just inside Greater London (i.e. right at the fringes of the zone) than someone living just outside. Central London I can understand. If this was of real concern then MOT standards would be tightened across the board.

Given I will be (unlawfully in my view) banned from driving a legal, roadworthy and fully taxed vehicle inside the M25, can I have a refund on my road fund licence please?

[skwdenyer]

teamHOLDENracing said:

skwdenyer said:

MJK 24 said:

As promised, here are the prices I've been quoted.

Vehicle is a 1998 Renault Midliner 7.5 ton with 1,400,000kms showing.

To update to Euro 3 allowing use until 2012 - £3,000 for the kit plus fitting plus VAT.

To update to Euro 4 allowing use beyond 2012 - £4,100 for the kit plus fitting plus VAT.

Much as I disagree with the tactics being used, this does on the face of it look like an effective (if blunt) way of getting improved emissions standards in London. £3,000 to save (potentially up to) £120,000 of "charges" seems like a pretty good carrot - vs - stick equation.

Are there reductions in road fund licence available for HGVs compliant with enhanced emissions standards?

I also suspect that the £3000 investment will not depreciate all that much, which is good.

I fail to see why air quality is more of an issue for someone living just inside Greater London (i.e. right at the fringes of the zone) than someone living just outside. Central London I can understand. If this was of real concern then MOT standards would be tightened across the board.

Given I will be (unlawfully in my view) banned from driving a legal, roadworthy and fully taxed vehicle inside the M25, can I have a refund on my road fund licence please?

You're no more "banned" than you are by the CC already. I like the idea of a test case based on not being able to afford to pay the CC or somesuch, but I doubt it would fly.

As to air quality and location, ultimately all boundaries are a bit arbitrary. This is where the line has been drawn; it had to go somewhere.

[teamHOLDENracing]

I disagree, because the congestion charge does not single out a particular type of vehicle. In addition, a £200 a day charge is effectively a ban. £200 is not a charge, it is a punitive penalty

I still don't see how targetting a specific type of vehicle, which is perfectly roadworthy and meets all MOT requirements, can be legal. Which piece of legislation gives Ken the right to have different MOT requirements than the rest of the country - because effectively that is what we have

[Towie]

Sadly this sort of thing in not uncommon. IIRC you have tp reach certain emission standards before you can take a truck into switzerland, and you certainly need to be at least Euro3(I think) before using Mont Blanc tunnel (Not a bad think in my opinion).

[Hooli]

teamHOLDENracing said:

I disagree, because the congestion charge does not single out a particular type of vehicle. In addition, a £200 a day charge is effectively a ban. £200 is not a charge, it is a punitive penalty

I still don't see how targetting a specific type of vehicle, which is perfectly roadworthy and meets all MOT requirements, can be legal. Which piece of legislation gives Ken the right to have different MOT requirements than the rest of the country - because effectively that is what we have

sounds totally out of order to me as well, how dare they ban you from the road when your in a legal vehicle.
£200 pound a day off everyone affected, should be able to get a contract on red ken for that AND have a lot of change for a party.

[Towie]

teamHOLDENracing said:

I still don't see how targetting a specific type of vehicle, which is perfectly roadworthy and meets all MOT requirements, can be legal.

Happens to us all the time. There are only certain routes we can use within London at night and weekends.

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

Yes that was me bitching on LBC last night about this.