videos of m3 getting "owned" by 335d

[RobCrezz]

300bhp/ton said:

RobCrezz said:

pbirkett said:

RobM77 said:

RobCrezz said:

RobM77 said:

RobCrezz said:

350GT said:

Yes, but the M3 isn't.

Exactly. Is harder to get a good launch in a manual car, although that doesnt mean you cant get a good launch.

It's also harder to launch a petrol car than a diesel, because in a petrol car you rely on some wheelspin or clutch slip to deliver power to the road at peak torque (3k+). A diesel has peak torque much lower, so is not only easier, but the consequences of messing up the start and bogging down are less cause you're straight onto peak torque rather than waiting to hit it.

Exactly!

And to prove the point, if you watch the videos the main reason the 335d wins each time is that it gets a perfect start every time, whereas the other drivers fluff it. The 335d just seems easier to launch (see my post above for the reasons).

Obviously never tried to launch a Fabia vRS then. Anything but easy to get a good getaway without furious wheelspin. Most diesels are rubbish off the line. The main reason the 335d wont be is the HUGE amount of grip and RWD.

In fairness, noone cares about a fabia vRS or launching it

I bet the vrs could be launched well, it would just take some very good clutch control to keep the torque coming and stop the wheel spin, but the clutch wouldnt last long. But when I mean launch well, I mean for a 130bhp hatch.

But in the real world doesn't this mean that the 335d (mapped) is truly quicker than an E46 M3?

As in ou can be very quick most of the time without the need to stage, prep, think about it and then either bog, wheel spin too much or melt the clutch.

It's the same with VTEC and turbo petrol AWD cars, sure they are quick when you get it right, but even being given time to stage and prepare for a launch many people fluff up more than they get right.

Where as auto n/a or supercharged V8's and turbo diesels get a good launch most of the time.

Very possibly.

In the real world, unless you are giving the e46 a good thrashing, then you will be in the powerband of the 335d more of the time. Doesnt make it better or faster though

[RobM77]

10 Pence Short said:

300bhp/ton said:

However, again doesn't this reinforce that how easy a cars it to drive/launch/shift has a huge bearing in the real world on what makes a fast car?

What is this 'real world' you keep going on about?

I live in a world where some people prefer one thing, and others prefer another. Neither are wrong and both, I assume, live in the 'real world'.

I assumed what 300 meant by that was that the "real world" was all about accelerating from rolling starts (i.e. out of corners), and drag racing was hugely determined by standing starts, which very few people actually ever do.

[6655321]

300bhp/ton said:

Good point, I didn't think of it like that.

However, again doesn't this reinforce that how easy a cars it to drive/launch/shift has a huge bearing in the real world on what makes a fast car?
I don't think so. How often do you do a full bifta wheel-spinning start in this 'real world'?

I've not driven an e46 M3 do I don't know. But if it takes a lot of skill and effort to get it to perform at say even 80% of its ability, where another car (say 335d) is perhaps very easy to attain 90% of its ability and be the quicker when driven to these levels?
You can get to 90% of the [b]engine[/i] capability I'm sure, but along a certain stretch of road, the only 'real world' difference is suspension setup, etc, if you know what I mean?

Hope this makes sense.

As I'm not dissing the M3 at all, its a fab car, but so is the 335d, even more so when in reality it more of a competitor to a 330i or 335i yet somehow manages to offer M3 rivalling performance.

I think the 335d is a cool car, regardless of the PH nonsense. However, i think the M3 will always be a better setup car over the two. The same driver in both will always be quicker in the M3.

[300bhp/ton]

10 Pence Short said:

300bhp/ton said:

However, again doesn't this reinforce that how easy a cars it to drive/launch/shift has a huge bearing in the real world on what makes a fast car?

What is this 'real world' you keep going on about?

I live in a world where some people prefer one thing, and others prefer another. Neither are wrong and both, I assume, live in the 'real world'.

Didn't say anything about preferences in any shape or form.

By real world I mean the public roads, driving to the shops, to a friends house, commuting to work and home, going on holiday, going for a drive on a Sunday afternoon, road trips, etc, etc.

As in not on a race track (as most people I know don't own one).

So most impromptu races take the form of accelerating away from a round-about, pulling out at junctions, traffic lights, slip roads, dual carriage way blasts, by-passes and B roads.

As in more often than not just planting it while already moving. Sometimes planting it off the line. And pretty much never cornering at the very edges of the cars performance envelope.

Anyone can push the loud pedal to the floor, and its safe enough and legal enough to do if only for a matter of 5-10 seconds worth or "racing".

On the flip side, not many people can really get a car to corner like the Stig and don't even attempt to try it on public roads.

Are you telling me you've never gone across a round-about and then planted it as you pull onto a bit of dual carriage way? And just maybe done it to beat or stay ahead of that car behind you or in the next lane?

[bales]

10 Pence Short said:

300bhp/ton said:

However, again doesn't this reinforce that how easy a cars it to drive/launch/shift has a huge bearing in the real world on what makes a fast car?

What is this 'real world' you keep going on about?

I live in a world where some people prefer one thing, and others prefer another. Neither are wrong and both, I assume, live in the 'real world'.

Beacause in the real world you aren't always in the right gear or at the revs to take advantage of a high revving n/a engine.

As an onwer of a EP3 CTR and my previous car being a remapped 1.8T Golf with approx 240lbft of torque it makes a significant difference in everyday driving and overtaking....

Both of my cars were pretty much identical in an absolute drag race but unless you are sat at 6.5k in the Civic when an overtaking opportunity arises then by the time you've dropped about 3 gears then I would get left by the Golf.

Its not hard to understand how cars with lots of torque are easier to drive fast, yes I could be just as quick if I was always driving round with silly revs on but that just isn't practical.

[300bhp/ton]

RobCrezz said:

300bhp/ton said:

RobCrezz said:

pbirkett said:

RobM77 said:

RobCrezz said:

RobM77 said:

RobCrezz said:

350GT said:

Yes, but the M3 isn't.

Exactly. Is harder to get a good launch in a manual car, although that doesnt mean you cant get a good launch.

It's also harder to launch a petrol car than a diesel, because in a petrol car you rely on some wheelspin or clutch slip to deliver power to the road at peak torque (3k+). A diesel has peak torque much lower, so is not only easier, but the consequences of messing up the start and bogging down are less cause you're straight onto peak torque rather than waiting to hit it.

Exactly!

And to prove the point, if you watch the videos the main reason the 335d wins each time is that it gets a perfect start every time, whereas the other drivers fluff it. The 335d just seems easier to launch (see my post above for the reasons).

Obviously never tried to launch a Fabia vRS then. Anything but easy to get a good getaway without furious wheelspin. Most diesels are rubbish off the line. The main reason the 335d wont be is the HUGE amount of grip and RWD.

In fairness, noone cares about a fabia vRS or launching it

I bet the vrs could be launched well, it would just take some very good clutch control to keep the torque coming and stop the wheel spin, but the clutch wouldnt last long. But when I mean launch well, I mean for a 130bhp hatch.

But in the real world doesn't this mean that the 335d (mapped) is truly quicker than an E46 M3?

As in ou can be very quick most of the time without the need to stage, prep, think about it and then either bog, wheel spin too much or melt the clutch.

It's the same with VTEC and turbo petrol AWD cars, sure they are quick when you get it right, but even being given time to stage and prepare for a launch many people fluff up more than they get right.

Where as auto n/a or supercharged V8's and turbo diesels get a good launch most of the time.

Very possibly.

In the real world, unless you are giving the e46 a good thrashing, then you will be in the powerband of the 335d more of the time. Doesnt make it better or faster though

Not better, no

But faster, well I think for more of the time yes it probably would.

[monthefish]

350GT said:

Hollywood Wheels said:

thinfourth2 said:

Anyone who measures the worth or enjoyment a car with a stopwatch has no idea why cars are fun.

And can people please stop using the term "owned", it's VERY fking annoying.

Yeah.. Everyone knows it's 'pwned"!

....and if they could also stop using 'stock' as well please. We're in the UK - the term is 'standard'.

[300bhp/ton]

6655321 said:

I don't think so. How often do you do a full bifta wheel-spinning start in this 'real world'?

You can get to 90% of the [b]engine[/i] capability I'm sure, but along a certain stretch of road, the only 'real world' difference is suspension setup, etc, if you know what I mean?



I think the 335d is a cool car, regardless of the PH nonsense. However, i think the M3 will always be a better setup car over the two. The same driver in both will always be quicker in the M3.

Actually I find I do such starts quite often, but usually for fun and when there aren't other people about.