Discussion
I looked at both these cars before buying a CTR. I went with the CTR for a number of reasons.
1. There's no way I'd want to have a crash in a Clio, let alone one that has been lightened.
2. I have experience of Renault electrics. Nuff said.
3. CTR depreciates less.
4. CTR has the overall edge (came higher up in best handling car test in Top Gear - Tiff reckoned it was the best all-round hot hatch)
Having said all that, I expect the Clio is more fun to drive. If the Civic is about precision and outright grip, the Clio is about hanging the arse out and being a hooligan.
Given the same choice again today, I'd still take the CTR.
1. There's no way I'd want to have a crash in a Clio, let alone one that has been lightened.
2. I have experience of Renault electrics. Nuff said.
3. CTR depreciates less.
4. CTR has the overall edge (came higher up in best handling car test in Top Gear - Tiff reckoned it was the best all-round hot hatch)
Having said all that, I expect the Clio is more fun to drive. If the Civic is about precision and outright grip, the Clio is about hanging the arse out and being a hooligan.
Given the same choice again today, I'd still take the CTR.
Clio 172 CUP beats CTR over 1/4 mile and that is FACT, i have seen it happen several times on the strip. CTR is overpriced and overhyped and looks like a door wedge + 172 cup can be had brand new for 10k 
although customer service and mechanics are almost certainly better on the honda but you aint gonna have as much fun in a CTR as you ewould in a CUP
although customer service and mechanics are almost certainly better on the honda but you aint gonna have as much fun in a CTR as you ewould in a CUP
I tried both and ended up buying a Cup... Wish I hadn't.
Certainly the Cup is better fun to drive but the build quality is truly shocking. Bits fell off it and there was a perminant suspension crash that Renault tried to fix, they said it was a known fault but had no solution!!!! When the steering started to make all kind of noises, the exhaust started to vibrate at all revs over 2000 and the windscreen seal came off I gave up and flogged it. Also I reckon it was painted with poster paint, looked fantastic when I picked it up but it really did chip nicely, especially round the rear wheel arches...
I miss it when I see one but would never ever go to Renault again!!!
Certainly the Cup is better fun to drive but the build quality is truly shocking. Bits fell off it and there was a perminant suspension crash that Renault tried to fix, they said it was a known fault but had no solution!!!! When the steering started to make all kind of noises, the exhaust started to vibrate at all revs over 2000 and the windscreen seal came off I gave up and flogged it. Also I reckon it was painted with poster paint, looked fantastic when I picked it up but it really did chip nicely, especially round the rear wheel arches...
I miss it when I see one but would never ever go to Renault again!!!
Hardcore2000 said:
Clio 172 CUP beats CTR over 1/4 mile and that is FACT
Probably, but so would any other pie-tray with a 2 litre engine. I bet both would get smoked by a £1000 Maestro turbo or a Focus RS which in it's first year and 10,000 miles probably cost £1000 in depreciation.
Hardcore2000 said:
CTR is overpriced
Check the residuals after 12 months, 24 months and 36 months. There is no comparison. My CTR has cost me £1500 in depreciation in a year and 20,000 miles (okay, I bought it behind book). I'd struggle to trade a similarly aged 172 Cup in for a Twix.
Hardcore2000 said:
and overhyped
Not according to just about every motoring magazine. It's cheap and fast. It really depends on what you want to do. If you want to be a hooligan then get a Cup, no doubt it's a more fun car to drive. If you want precision and on-track performance get the CTR. If you want to puch the boat out then the Focus RS is the one to have. I couldn't get an RS when I got the CTR (none about) else I would have because they have held their money even better and are another step ahead of the CTR.
Hardcore2000 said:
and looks like a door wedge
Agreed, it's a funny looking bugger.
Hardcore2000 said:
172 cup can be had brand new for 10k
But it's worth 10p 15 minutes later
Hardcore2000 said:
although customer service and mechanics are almost certainly better on the honda but you aint gonna have as much fun in a CTR as you ewould in a CUP
Agreed. I took the CTR for many reasons. It just makes a better all-round car. Only loses out of the fun factor when you want to hurl it about. The CTR drives will have a face of concentration and wry smiles when they nail apexes in perfect four wheel drifts, the Cup driver will have a massive grin as he goes smoking broadside round the hairpins cocked up on 3 wheels. Either is great, just different.
FYI, the CTR was consistently over a second faster round Rockingham than the Cup. This was verified by a second driver. One was Tiff, the other was a BTCC driver, can't remember who.
roop said:The CTR and the Clio both have an encap rating of four stars.
1. There's no way I'd want to have a crash in a Clio, let alone one that has been lightened.
BTW I test drove both and a similarly specced up CTR was about 5 grand more expensive (£17,500 inc air cond).
I did like the CTR and had they been more similarly priced I would have gone for it but it is not better by £5500. And that pays for a fair bit of depreciation.
The Clio seems much torquier than the CTR at normal road-type revs (ie when you can't be arsed to change down). It will stick with most things. It gives 30-35mpg, I can get tyres for £56 each and in two and a half years it has cost me feck-all.
CTRs seem to be everywhere now and it is only recently that I have seen much in the way of Clio Sports around my area.
The build quality of the Renault is perfectly adequate, although not in the same league as the CTR.
To the original poster, why not get a 2001- Integra Type R? Marginally more powerful and much more exclusive. I fancy one of those myself.
roop said:
Check the residuals after 12 months, 24 months and 36 months. There is no comparison. My CTR has cost me £1500 in depreciation in a year and 20,000 miles (okay, I bought it behind book). I'd struggle to trade a similarly aged 172 Cup in for a Twix.
dont agree at all mate, i had a 02 CTR from new, the book may say that youve got yourself a blinding investment but try selling one AND speak to people whove tried selling them, if they got the book they were very very lucky in my opinion. Proliferation of the CTR and the new model havent helped but there is no way on earth that a CTR depreciates 1500 in a year... like i say try selling it i ended up "having" to take 1500 less than book and that was a struggle. i got an endless number of time wasters calling wanting to p/x a Golf GTi or a EG Civic with "250 BHP". it was tedious, i also read a similar tale in one of the secod hand mags a couple of months back. fact is the civic is common a lot of the trade mags say you should be able to get "at least" air con thrown in on a new one. The Cup on the other hand seems to be holding quite well given its asking price. at the end of the day though if you love cars why on earth does depreciation come into it unless its a compromise.
If you want to see what i mean head over to the mini2 forums, the only argument that seems to hold up when they debate their beloved MCS is that it holds its value... i dont remember rushing to look up the 3 yr depreciation figures of my favourite cars when i was a 16 yr old with my latest copy of autocar...
Hardcore2000 said:
I have checked the prices i suggest you do the same again. I have not seen one for less than 8400 on autotrader in the last month and those at that price have over 30k on clock usually. I will get a bare min of 9700 with 5k on clock
to be fair mate, it doesnt tell you what the cars actually sell for on the trader, you really think youll get the asking price? check the prices of second hand CTR's on the trader, from my own experience some people are asking way, way too much. i know 3 other people who sold CTR's in the last 6 months and none of them (including mine) went for anywhere near "book". check the owners forums aswell, youll see threads with hundreds of views and prices dropped substantially over a relatively short period of time. Just because its a cup doesnt mean the same wont apply.
From another forum posted here for good measure:
Good thread - and still quite polite which is nice to see.
Some good stuff coming out.
I have been in a CTR that crashed and I can not imagine how a Clio could have come out of the same accident in a much worse shape TBH. We clipped a handful of wooden fence posts and skimmed across a verge and the car was deemed a write off, though I guess it could be argued that as the occupants were largely uninjured the car did it's job.
The build quality gap between the two is perhaps not as large as some would have you believe. True the oily bits are bullet proof in the CTR but the rest f the car is assembled in Swindon as I understand it and my mate had more than his share of *ahem* niggles.
The residuals point is quite interesting too as my mate lost a chunk of cash on his after only a year - I seem to recall around £3500 or so - hardly what you'd call easy on the pocket.
Good thread - and still quite polite which is nice to see.
Some good stuff coming out.
I have been in a CTR that crashed and I can not imagine how a Clio could have come out of the same accident in a much worse shape TBH. We clipped a handful of wooden fence posts and skimmed across a verge and the car was deemed a write off, though I guess it could be argued that as the occupants were largely uninjured the car did it's job.
The build quality gap between the two is perhaps not as large as some would have you believe. True the oily bits are bullet proof in the CTR but the rest f the car is assembled in Swindon as I understand it and my mate had more than his share of *ahem* niggles.
The residuals point is quite interesting too as my mate lost a chunk of cash on his after only a year - I seem to recall around £3500 or so - hardly what you'd call easy on the pocket.
Looked at both and bought the Clio. It was brand new (53 plate) for £11700 and the new civics were just too expensive for what they are IMHO. They are pig ugly, common as feck and not really my style as in a year or two they are going to attract the wrong type of interest. IMO
The Clio looks understated, nice lines, cracking engine (to be fair the Honda is pants down winner here) and handles like a good un! build quality is adequate but its a french car at the end of the day. Im confident i made the right choice, it has the edge to it which i think i need to make me a better driver.
No ABS or Traction pish, to be blunt it is a proper old school hot hatch
. The civic is quicker when you start pushing over 70-80 but is fun in a straight line? i dont think so, its the perfect tool for many of britains 'b' roads. The Type R is more powerful but heavier with it. Lad Motorsport will give you 200bhp in a Cup for about £950.
just my 2p worth
The Clio looks understated, nice lines, cracking engine (to be fair the Honda is pants down winner here) and handles like a good un! build quality is adequate but its a french car at the end of the day. Im confident i made the right choice, it has the edge to it which i think i need to make me a better driver.
No ABS or Traction pish, to be blunt it is a proper old school hot hatch
. The civic is quicker when you start pushing over 70-80 but is fun in a straight line? i dont think so, its the perfect tool for many of britains 'b' roads. The Type R is more powerful but heavier with it. Lad Motorsport will give you 200bhp in a Cup for about £950. just my 2p worth
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