Your experiences of electric power steering
Discussion
I have a new 2013 3 series with electric power steering, I keep reading / watching things about the lack of feel compared to hydraulically assisted steering. In every day to day driving I think it is as good as the last 2 hydraulically steered cars I've owned in pretty much every respect that I can tell.
If I took them back to back on a track I may think that the electrically assisted car might feel artificial, I don't know, probably not given my skill level.
The question I'm asking is, is electrically assisted steering from a pure drivers perspective the poor relation compared to good old hydraulic assistance?
If I took them back to back on a track I may think that the electrically assisted car might feel artificial, I don't know, probably not given my skill level.
The question I'm asking is, is electrically assisted steering from a pure drivers perspective the poor relation compared to good old hydraulic assistance?
Urban Sports said:
If I took them back to back on a track I may think that the electrically assisted car might feel artificial, I don't know, probably not given my skill level.
???? Why do you need any skill to feel a difference in steering feel? Feel and feedback are all about sensation. You can either feel the difference or not! I suspect electric PAS, can give good feedback but its new-ish technology and its taking engineers a while. You have to remember that some hydraulic set ups are pretty feel - less. You have to take into account that steering feel is a by product of various things, the steering and suspension geometry, the way the components like the rack are mounted and materials used to do so and the power assist set up.
From a marketing and cost point of view some car manufacturers will take a view that their customers wont care, so why take time making sure the system gives Lotus levels of feedback?
To be honest if you want a really good reference point for what steering should really feel like, forget PAS and get behind the wheel of a well set up original mini, Caterham 7 or Lotus Elise. Little else will come close.
steve_bmw said:
My z4 has electric steering and Its fine, can't tell any difference between this and any other hydraulic steering car I have had.
I'm not impressed by the Z4's electric setup. First time I drove one it felt like a Honda. You get used to it. My last car was a'proper' hydraulic setup and currently I have electric - and it feels like a big step backwards - though again as with the Z - you get used to it in time. I think the question of whether it's good or bad power steering depends on far more than whether it's electric or hydraulic. Either system can be done well or badly. For a given car, the choice of tyres has a big influence - both size / aspect ratio and make. So does the set-up
My main daily car at the moment is a late 2008 E91 3-series, standard SE suspension, running on either 205/55 16 (winter) or 225/45 17 (summer), non run-flat tyres in all cases.
The steering is very pleasant and signals available grip quite adequately. I can feel more through the electric rack-and-pinion steering on the 320D than I could on the hydraulic rack-and-pinion steering of the two E39 Five series that I had before (a 525D SE and a 530D SE, both of which felt quite anaesthetised).
On the other hand, the electric power steering on my late 2004 Renault Megane II is very peculiar and probably the worst feature of the car. It has weird, aggressive self-centring. But then again, the hydraulic power steering on the breadvan-shape Civic that we had before the Megane was if anything worse, although in different ways - it was utterly feel-less and gave little confidence.
The best steering of all for feel is manual, with wishbone suspension and relatively skinny, tallish, tyres, but I'm not sure it's even possible to buy a new car with manual steering any more outside the scope of something like a Caterham.
My main daily car at the moment is a late 2008 E91 3-series, standard SE suspension, running on either 205/55 16 (winter) or 225/45 17 (summer), non run-flat tyres in all cases.
The steering is very pleasant and signals available grip quite adequately. I can feel more through the electric rack-and-pinion steering on the 320D than I could on the hydraulic rack-and-pinion steering of the two E39 Five series that I had before (a 525D SE and a 530D SE, both of which felt quite anaesthetised).
On the other hand, the electric power steering on my late 2004 Renault Megane II is very peculiar and probably the worst feature of the car. It has weird, aggressive self-centring. But then again, the hydraulic power steering on the breadvan-shape Civic that we had before the Megane was if anything worse, although in different ways - it was utterly feel-less and gave little confidence.
The best steering of all for feel is manual, with wishbone suspension and relatively skinny, tallish, tyres, but I'm not sure it's even possible to buy a new car with manual steering any more outside the scope of something like a Caterham.
As everyone has said - depends on set up.
Ford Focus Mk3 with EPAS has much better steering than the hydraulically assisted VW Bora.
Hyundai i10 has less feel than an Xbox controller and forza.
Have driven a Mk1 Cayman back to back with a Mk2 boxster on track and if anything I preferred the boxsters system, whether that would change with more time with both I don't know.
Ford Focus Mk3 with EPAS has much better steering than the hydraulically assisted VW Bora.
Hyundai i10 has less feel than an Xbox controller and forza.
Have driven a Mk1 Cayman back to back with a Mk2 boxster on track and if anything I preferred the boxsters system, whether that would change with more time with both I don't know.
The Z4's is too light and I had to drive with the sport button on which firms it up. For the Z4M they ditched it and went back to hydraulic so that tells it own story.
There is nothing wrong per se with electronic steering but quality and feedback varies massively depending on manufacturer - they are not all alike.
There is nothing wrong per se with electronic steering but quality and feedback varies massively depending on manufacturer - they are not all alike.
Edited by Herbs on Thursday 20th June 00:33
Honda Jazz, very easy to drive and you can tell what's happening at the wheels to - ooh - 15mph? Then it goes stiffer than a corpse with rigor mortis "just like that" and then (over 15mph) has similar (zero) PS3/Gamestation/whatever feedback 
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I've never determined the exact speed where the damn thing's steering "dies" as its so execrable to drive anyway.......... Sciatica after 20 minutes FTW etc etc
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The mirror still mists up when I breathe on it, that's all that matters - the car's not mine, I just drive it occasionally
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.I've never determined the exact speed where the damn thing's steering "dies" as its so execrable to drive anyway.......... Sciatica after 20 minutes FTW etc etc
. The mirror still mists up when I breathe on it, that's all that matters - the car's not mine, I just drive it occasionally
.Not a huge fan of electric PAS. My S2000 & MR2 Roadster both had it; although both cars felt nice and direct, the steering was overly assisted and tended to lack 'meaty' feedback. Couldn't feel much change in steering weight on surface changes when cornering. A tad inert, although both are good sports cars.
Hydraulic PAS on some older 80s & 90s cars I had tended to be more talkative; Corrado, Mk1 MX5, 309 GTi were all good. My S13 200SX with hydraulic steering was awful, however. Stupidly light and zero feedback.
My non-PAS TVR is pretty communicative as to what the tyres are doing, but it is like trying to pilot a Fred Dibnah steamroller through roundabouts such is the sheer steering weight.
Hydraulic PAS on some older 80s & 90s cars I had tended to be more talkative; Corrado, Mk1 MX5, 309 GTi were all good. My S13 200SX with hydraulic steering was awful, however. Stupidly light and zero feedback.
My non-PAS TVR is pretty communicative as to what the tyres are doing, but it is like trying to pilot a Fred Dibnah steamroller through roundabouts such is the sheer steering weight.
My Skoda Fabia had electric power steering and it had pretty good feedback. Much better than the stupid Astra I bought.
Only issue I found was that you had to keep you hands away from the steering wheel when starting the car up. If you turned the wheel even slightly (say holding onto it while starting car) then it would get all confused and disable itself.
Only issue I found was that you had to keep you hands away from the steering wheel when starting the car up. If you turned the wheel even slightly (say holding onto it while starting car) then it would get all confused and disable itself.
Fastdruid said:
RX-8 steering and feedback is/was fantastic.
Im kind of ashamed to say but I only discovered that the RX8 has electric power steering only a few days ago. I have only been driving it for 5 years.In answer to the question I think the feel is perfect. Can tell exactly where the wheels are unlike some of the newer systems in other cars that appear too over assisted and you can turn the wheel with one finger.
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