The science behind tyre width for trackdays - who can help?
Discussion
Evening all,
I've tried quite a few different tyre sizes on my DC2 track car, but I'm not sure how to work out exactly what size should be best.
The standard car came with 195/55/15 tyres on the earlier models and 215/45/16 tyres on the later model (same chassis). On trackdays, I've myself ran various different widths from 195-225. I know most people run a 15" wheel with 195/50/15 as they are always the cheapest for good track tyres, but are they going to be down on cornering performance?
I've just seen some Toyo R888's (old design) brand new for £69 each which is ridiculously cheap, but would I not be better paying more and getting the 205/215/225? How do you work out how much width you actually need? I need to know the science. The price difference would be a good £50 per tyre!
I'm planning on going to Cadwell this month and currently have either 205/45/16 Federal RSR, 195/50/16 Yoko A048 and 205/50/15 Yoko AD08R at my disposal on various rims.
So, from not a very clear post comes a clear question, how do I pick what size tyre will give me the best performance? (ignore compounds and brands for now as I'm pretty sure I understand that area
)
Cheers
Dan
I've tried quite a few different tyre sizes on my DC2 track car, but I'm not sure how to work out exactly what size should be best.
The standard car came with 195/55/15 tyres on the earlier models and 215/45/16 tyres on the later model (same chassis). On trackdays, I've myself ran various different widths from 195-225. I know most people run a 15" wheel with 195/50/15 as they are always the cheapest for good track tyres, but are they going to be down on cornering performance?
I've just seen some Toyo R888's (old design) brand new for £69 each which is ridiculously cheap, but would I not be better paying more and getting the 205/215/225? How do you work out how much width you actually need? I need to know the science. The price difference would be a good £50 per tyre!
I'm planning on going to Cadwell this month and currently have either 205/45/16 Federal RSR, 195/50/16 Yoko A048 and 205/50/15 Yoko AD08R at my disposal on various rims.
So, from not a very clear post comes a clear question, how do I pick what size tyre will give me the best performance? (ignore compounds and brands for now as I'm pretty sure I understand that area
)Cheers
Dan
Dunno if this will help or not, but I used to race bikes, and have been a TD instructor too, with a bit of car experience thrown in...
With regard to tyres, there are several main things to consider. Size is only a small part of that equation. If you don't understand fully what I write below - then have a Google round about each point, to give you a greater understanding about the things I am discussing?
1) Assuming the tyres you are using can firstly deal satisfactorily with the transmission of power, especially out of corners - then one of the main considerations is suspension and wheel geometry. I might suggest that the vehicle's camber, castor and weight distribution have some of the greatest effects on both grip and traction, above all else. Secondary to that is whether you have a limited slip differential or not. Without this, it is likely that in a front-wheel-drive vehicle, the inside front wheel might spin up and waste power when accelerating out of a turn.
After all the many thousands of hours I have spent (wasted?
) at race tacks, I can confirm that one of the primary features of a good lap time, is effective acceleration out of turns, especially slower ones. It's (usually) more important than corner speed, and even late braking. The simple fact of the matter is that early traction and acceleration out of a turn will equal a higher top speed along the next corresponding straight. Amongst other things, this is one of the most important factors to consider when cutting lap times. Trust me on this.
2) Tyre pressures have a monstrous effect upon grip and traction too, taking the climate and track temperature into consideration. I bet you that if someone who didn't know what they were doing turned up at a track with a particular car, and I had the same car running smaller / thinner tyres, if I was given some basic setup information and track surface temperatures, then after a bit of testing I would find a suitable tyre air pressure on my car that would blitz the other car with bigger / wider tyres. Not only that, but often a smaller / thinner tyre running at optimum pressures for the track at that particular point can give the driver a better feel too, hence helping to cut lap times even further. Sometimes, compliance is everything - especially in the cold and the wet.
3) Before you go off on a wild goose chase for bigger / wider tyres, consider this: the primary driver of tyre grip and traction, once you have set optimum pressures and decided on compound and sidewall compliance - is the force with which the tyre's contact patch is pushed down into the running surface.
If you don't get that, then you need to think of what's happening at a microscopic level between rubber and ashphalt. Thinking back to those physics lessons at school, friction between two surfaces is created by the irregularities, force and compliance of the two materials. E.g. the tyre and the track have peaks and troughs in them invisible to the naked eye - but it is this interaction and 'keying in' of the two surfaces which creates friction.
You can't really change the track's characteristics, but you can influence the tyre's to create as much friction as possible. A softer more compliant tyre compound, or reduced pressures which allow more running surface deformity, CAN improve this friction co-efficient.
HOWEVER - and providing you have stuck with me - this is NOT ALWAYS improved by just fitting bigger / wider tyres. You might think that a bigger / wider contact patch would give you a greater amount of friction, grip and traction, right? Well, no - as per the physics, it depends upon the WEIGHT of the body (i.e. the car) which is pushing / forcing the tyre down into the track.
A car of a certain weight, is pushing every square inch of the contact patches of the tyres down into the track at a set pressure. Forgetting compounds and tyre pressures for a moment - this force is a set force which will not change, unless the car has some serious aero addenda like wings and spoilers. So, you are stuck with what you have.
If you fit wider tyres to the same car, with no other changes or modifications, expecting more grip and traction, then you may be disappointed. This is primarily because you are now presenting, for example, 20% more tyre contact patch to the track surface. However, the weight of the car which is pushing these bigger contact patches down into the track is the same - hence, you actually have a reduced pressure per square inch of contact patch than you had with thinner tyres.
Therefore, in many cases - overall, you have reduced the friction co-efficient available for grip and traction, despite the wider tyres - and will then suffer paradoxically slower lap times....which might even be compounded by less steering / braking feel, and even a greater propensity to aquaplaning in the wet.
Does that all make sense? Sorry for the long physics lesson reply - I've not long come home and was a bit bored, so thought I might offer all my thoughts on the subject, haha! I don't pretend to be an expert, and I may well get shot down in flames by others who know more - but all I am saying is that these basic principles helped me and my team in deciding upon what tyres to run, where and when.
HTH
With regard to tyres, there are several main things to consider. Size is only a small part of that equation. If you don't understand fully what I write below - then have a Google round about each point, to give you a greater understanding about the things I am discussing?
1) Assuming the tyres you are using can firstly deal satisfactorily with the transmission of power, especially out of corners - then one of the main considerations is suspension and wheel geometry. I might suggest that the vehicle's camber, castor and weight distribution have some of the greatest effects on both grip and traction, above all else. Secondary to that is whether you have a limited slip differential or not. Without this, it is likely that in a front-wheel-drive vehicle, the inside front wheel might spin up and waste power when accelerating out of a turn.
After all the many thousands of hours I have spent (wasted?
) at race tacks, I can confirm that one of the primary features of a good lap time, is effective acceleration out of turns, especially slower ones. It's (usually) more important than corner speed, and even late braking. The simple fact of the matter is that early traction and acceleration out of a turn will equal a higher top speed along the next corresponding straight. Amongst other things, this is one of the most important factors to consider when cutting lap times. Trust me on this.2) Tyre pressures have a monstrous effect upon grip and traction too, taking the climate and track temperature into consideration. I bet you that if someone who didn't know what they were doing turned up at a track with a particular car, and I had the same car running smaller / thinner tyres, if I was given some basic setup information and track surface temperatures, then after a bit of testing I would find a suitable tyre air pressure on my car that would blitz the other car with bigger / wider tyres. Not only that, but often a smaller / thinner tyre running at optimum pressures for the track at that particular point can give the driver a better feel too, hence helping to cut lap times even further. Sometimes, compliance is everything - especially in the cold and the wet.
3) Before you go off on a wild goose chase for bigger / wider tyres, consider this: the primary driver of tyre grip and traction, once you have set optimum pressures and decided on compound and sidewall compliance - is the force with which the tyre's contact patch is pushed down into the running surface.
If you don't get that, then you need to think of what's happening at a microscopic level between rubber and ashphalt. Thinking back to those physics lessons at school, friction between two surfaces is created by the irregularities, force and compliance of the two materials. E.g. the tyre and the track have peaks and troughs in them invisible to the naked eye - but it is this interaction and 'keying in' of the two surfaces which creates friction.
You can't really change the track's characteristics, but you can influence the tyre's to create as much friction as possible. A softer more compliant tyre compound, or reduced pressures which allow more running surface deformity, CAN improve this friction co-efficient.
HOWEVER - and providing you have stuck with me - this is NOT ALWAYS improved by just fitting bigger / wider tyres. You might think that a bigger / wider contact patch would give you a greater amount of friction, grip and traction, right? Well, no - as per the physics, it depends upon the WEIGHT of the body (i.e. the car) which is pushing / forcing the tyre down into the track.
A car of a certain weight, is pushing every square inch of the contact patches of the tyres down into the track at a set pressure. Forgetting compounds and tyre pressures for a moment - this force is a set force which will not change, unless the car has some serious aero addenda like wings and spoilers. So, you are stuck with what you have.
If you fit wider tyres to the same car, with no other changes or modifications, expecting more grip and traction, then you may be disappointed. This is primarily because you are now presenting, for example, 20% more tyre contact patch to the track surface. However, the weight of the car which is pushing these bigger contact patches down into the track is the same - hence, you actually have a reduced pressure per square inch of contact patch than you had with thinner tyres.
Therefore, in many cases - overall, you have reduced the friction co-efficient available for grip and traction, despite the wider tyres - and will then suffer paradoxically slower lap times....which might even be compounded by less steering / braking feel, and even a greater propensity to aquaplaning in the wet.
Does that all make sense? Sorry for the long physics lesson reply - I've not long come home and was a bit bored, so thought I might offer all my thoughts on the subject, haha! I don't pretend to be an expert, and I may well get shot down in flames by others who know more - but all I am saying is that these basic principles helped me and my team in deciding upon what tyres to run, where and when.
HTH
Wider tyres grip more, as rubber does not follow conventional friction theory.
Yes, there is less pressure per unit area. So the grip per unit area is reduced. However the grip increases because this is more than compensated for by additional area.
Wider tyres may need more ideal suspension geometry and characteristics (camber stiffness is a good example) than narrower tyres to achieve their potential.
I would go with the narrower, cheaper, tyres, and just enjoy the drive. It's not a race.
Yes, there is less pressure per unit area. So the grip per unit area is reduced. However the grip increases because this is more than compensated for by additional area.
Wider tyres may need more ideal suspension geometry and characteristics (camber stiffness is a good example) than narrower tyres to achieve their potential.
I would go with the narrower, cheaper, tyres, and just enjoy the drive. It's not a race.
Kawasicki said:
Wider tyres grip more, as rubber does not follow conventional friction theory.
You can forget normal friction theory with tyres but generally speaking a wider contact patch will increase cornering grip, longer contact patch (think tall drag racing tyres) Will improve straight line acceleration. Temperature management is also important, a tyre with greater surface area will also dissipate heat more easily, of course this again is a trial and error thing because it depends on the car and your driving style. You don't want the tyres to cool too quickly because the car generates no where near the cornering forces required to heat the them or you're driving a little too steady and they drop out of their optimum operating temperature. Really you have to ask whether this is important enough to worry about on your track day, it's surely more a subjective thing of which tyre feels better to you. Kawasicki said:
Yes, there is less pressure per unit area. So the grip per unit area is reduced. However the grip increases because this is more than compensated for by additional area.
Wider tyres are also less affected by variances in grip on the road/track surface. Take an extreme example:Tyre 150mm wide comes across a 150mm patch of ice. That tyre has lost all of it's available grip.
A tyre 200mm wide hits the same 150mm patch of ice. It still has 50mm of rubber in contact with "good" tarmac, and therefore only looses ~75% of it's available grip.
JordanTurbo said:
Wider tyres are also less affected by variances in grip on the road/track surface. Take an extreme example:
Tyre 150mm wide comes across a 150mm patch of ice. That tyre has lost all of it's available grip.
A tyre 200mm wide hits the same 150mm patch of ice. It still has 50mm of rubber in contact with "good" tarmac, and therefore only looses ~75% of it's available grip.
yep, unless aquaplaning is a risk.Tyre 150mm wide comes across a 150mm patch of ice. That tyre has lost all of it's available grip.
A tyre 200mm wide hits the same 150mm patch of ice. It still has 50mm of rubber in contact with "good" tarmac, and therefore only looses ~75% of it's available grip.
Kawasicki said:
Wider tyres grip more, as rubber does not follow conventional friction theory.
Yes, there is less pressure per unit area. So the grip per unit area is reduced. However the grip increases because this is more than compensated for by additional area.
Wider tyres may need more ideal suspension geometry and characteristics (camber stiffness is a good example) than narrower tyres to achieve their potential.
I would go with the narrower, cheaper, tyres, and just enjoy the drive. It's not a race.
I hate it when people simplify tyre grip down to high school physics. The coefficient of friction stuff you do a school just doesn't work for a material that makes chemical bonds with the surface it's sat on. Tyres are sticky and with sticky things more area = more sticky.Yes, there is less pressure per unit area. So the grip per unit area is reduced. However the grip increases because this is more than compensated for by additional area.
Wider tyres may need more ideal suspension geometry and characteristics (camber stiffness is a good example) than narrower tyres to achieve their potential.
I would go with the narrower, cheaper, tyres, and just enjoy the drive. It's not a race.
You're also totally right about less grip being more fun. And cheaper.
I used to run a Dc2 track car and played around with various tyre sizes they are more fun with less grip due to the fantastic chassis. Those 888's at £69 are a steal.
At circuits like Brands and Lydden I found it was more fun to run Ao48's on the front and good road tyres on the rear with a bit more psi added (like SO2's or RS2's) then you can play with the car a lot more with terrific turn in and feel from the front but slightly more lose at the back.
At circuits like Brands and Lydden I found it was more fun to run Ao48's on the front and good road tyres on the rear with a bit more psi added (like SO2's or RS2's) then you can play with the car a lot more with terrific turn in and feel from the front but slightly more lose at the back.
Helpful article from Car & Driver magazine testing different sized wheels & tyres on the same car - a Golf.
Depending what you want to achieve, the biggest (& heaviest) wheel & tyre combination, as you'd expect, isn't necessarily the sweetspot:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/effects-of-up...
Depending what you want to achieve, the biggest (& heaviest) wheel & tyre combination, as you'd expect, isn't necessarily the sweetspot:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/effects-of-up...
motco said:
DanielJames said:
I've just seen some Toyo R888's (old design) brand new for £69 each which is ridiculously cheap
May I ask where please? Unless, of course, it's a one off and only one set. ThanksThanks for the replies, the second response I've read a few times but 4am probably isn't the best time for it
I'll re-read tomorrow. The most interesting point for me is tyre pressures, something that I do enjoy "fiddling" with on trackdays. I'm going back on track Monday so will be sure to have a play with the pressures. I'll re read the responses in the morning, thanks chaps.
I used to do some work for a car hire firm that had several Clios on thier fleet.Thing I have never understood is the manufacturer sells these cars with a tyre that is quite simply too narrow.Some of the lesser skilled clients would return the cars that had obviously been pushed into understeer thus running on the sidewalls.Surely a width section wider with a slight increase in pressure would help matters?"It doesn't matter as the customer pays for replacements".was the answer given.
rallycross said:
I used to run a Dc2 track car and played around with various tyre sizes they are more fun with less grip due to the fantastic chassis. Those 888's at £69 are a steal.
At circuits like Brands and Lydden I found it was more fun to run Ao48's on the front and good road tyres on the rear with a bit more psi added (like SO2's or RS2's) then you can play with the car a lot more with terrific turn in and feel from the front but slightly more lose at the back.
Now THAT sounds like fun. At circuits like Brands and Lydden I found it was more fun to run Ao48's on the front and good road tyres on the rear with a bit more psi added (like SO2's or RS2's) then you can play with the car a lot more with terrific turn in and feel from the front but slightly more lose at the back.
It certainly sounds like your driving style is consistent with your username. 
I've not run anything but Toyo R888's as trackdays tyres so I'm not the best person to add to this thread. However I can vouch for tyre pressures being critical on a car like yours. I've used them on Peugeots mostly, so light, FWD hatch. I found even as low as 1PSi would make a difference (very careful pumping/deflating!) I couldn't get R888's to work properly with Nitrogen either as the rear tyres couldn't warm up.
On my Evo it was less exact a science, but they would overheat much quicker if you got the pressures wrong.
On my Evo it was less exact a science, but they would overheat much quicker if you got the pressures wrong.
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Dunno if this will help or not, but I used to race bikes, and have been a TD instructor too, with a bit of car experience thrown in...
With regard to tyres, there are several main things to consider. Size is only a small part of that equation. If you don't understand fully what I write below - then have a Google round about each point, to give you a greater understanding about the things I am discussing?
1) Assuming the tyres you are using can firstly deal satisfactorily with the transmission of power, especially out of corners - then one of the main considerations is suspension and wheel geometry. I might suggest that the vehicle's camber, castor and weight distribution have some of the greatest effects on both grip and traction, above all else. Secondary to that is whether you have a limited slip differential or not. Without this, it is likely that in a front-wheel-drive vehicle, the inside front wheel might spin up and waste power when accelerating out of a turn.
After all the many thousands of hours I have spent (wasted? ) at race tacks, I can confirm that one of the primary features of a good lap time, is effective acceleration out of turns, especially slower ones. It's (usually) more important than corner speed, and even late braking. The simple fact of the matter is that early traction and acceleration out of a turn will equal a higher top speed along the next corresponding straight. Amongst other things, this is one of the most important factors to consider when cutting lap times. Trust me on this.
2) Tyre pressures have a monstrous effect upon grip and traction too, taking the climate and track temperature into consideration. I bet you that if someone who didn't know what they were doing turned up at a track with a particular car, and I had the same car running smaller / thinner tyres, if I was given some basic setup information and track surface temperatures, then after a bit of testing I would find a suitable tyre air pressure on my car that would blitz the other car with bigger / wider tyres. Not only that, but often a smaller / thinner tyre running at optimum pressures for the track at that particular point can give the driver a better feel too, hence helping to cut lap times even further. Sometimes, compliance is everything - especially in the cold and the wet.
3) Before you go off on a wild goose chase for bigger / wider tyres, consider this: the primary driver of tyre grip and traction, once you have set optimum pressures and decided on compound and sidewall compliance - is the force with which the tyre's contact patch is pushed down into the running surface.
If you don't get that, then you need to think of what's happening at a microscopic level between rubber and ashphalt. Thinking back to those physics lessons at school, friction between two surfaces is created by the irregularities, force and compliance of the two materials. E.g. the tyre and the track have peaks and troughs in them invisible to the naked eye - but it is this interaction and 'keying in' of the two surfaces which creates friction.
You can't really change the track's characteristics, but you can influence the tyre's to create as much friction as possible. A softer more compliant tyre compound, or reduced pressures which allow more running surface deformity, CAN improve this friction co-efficient.
HOWEVER - and providing you have stuck with me - this is NOT ALWAYS improved by just fitting bigger / wider tyres. You might think that a bigger / wider contact patch would give you a greater amount of friction, grip and traction, right? Well, no - as per the physics, it depends upon the WEIGHT of the body (i.e. the car) which is pushing / forcing the tyre down into the track.
A car of a certain weight, is pushing every square inch of the contact patches of the tyres down into the track at a set pressure. Forgetting compounds and tyre pressures for a moment - this force is a set force which will not change, unless the car has some serious aero addenda like wings and spoilers. So, you are stuck with what you have.
If you fit wider tyres to the same car, with no other changes or modifications, expecting more grip and traction, then you may be disappointed. This is primarily because you are now presenting, for example, 20% more tyre contact patch to the track surface. However, the weight of the car which is pushing these bigger contact patches down into the track is the same - hence, you actually have a reduced pressure per square inch of contact patch than you had with thinner tyres.
Therefore, in many cases - overall, you have reduced the friction co-efficient available for grip and traction, despite the wider tyres - and will then suffer paradoxically slower lap times....which might even be compounded by less steering / braking feel, and even a greater propensity to aquaplaning in the wet.
Does that all make sense? Sorry for the long physics lesson reply - I've not long come home and was a bit bored, so thought I might offer all my thoughts on the subject, haha! I don't pretend to be an expert, and I may well get shot down in flames by others who know more - but all I am saying is that these basic principles helped me and my team in deciding upon what tyres to run, where and when.
HTH
I've finally had time to read that With regard to tyres, there are several main things to consider. Size is only a small part of that equation. If you don't understand fully what I write below - then have a Google round about each point, to give you a greater understanding about the things I am discussing?
1) Assuming the tyres you are using can firstly deal satisfactorily with the transmission of power, especially out of corners - then one of the main considerations is suspension and wheel geometry. I might suggest that the vehicle's camber, castor and weight distribution have some of the greatest effects on both grip and traction, above all else. Secondary to that is whether you have a limited slip differential or not. Without this, it is likely that in a front-wheel-drive vehicle, the inside front wheel might spin up and waste power when accelerating out of a turn.
After all the many thousands of hours I have spent (wasted?
) at race tacks, I can confirm that one of the primary features of a good lap time, is effective acceleration out of turns, especially slower ones. It's (usually) more important than corner speed, and even late braking. The simple fact of the matter is that early traction and acceleration out of a turn will equal a higher top speed along the next corresponding straight. Amongst other things, this is one of the most important factors to consider when cutting lap times. Trust me on this.2) Tyre pressures have a monstrous effect upon grip and traction too, taking the climate and track temperature into consideration. I bet you that if someone who didn't know what they were doing turned up at a track with a particular car, and I had the same car running smaller / thinner tyres, if I was given some basic setup information and track surface temperatures, then after a bit of testing I would find a suitable tyre air pressure on my car that would blitz the other car with bigger / wider tyres. Not only that, but often a smaller / thinner tyre running at optimum pressures for the track at that particular point can give the driver a better feel too, hence helping to cut lap times even further. Sometimes, compliance is everything - especially in the cold and the wet.
3) Before you go off on a wild goose chase for bigger / wider tyres, consider this: the primary driver of tyre grip and traction, once you have set optimum pressures and decided on compound and sidewall compliance - is the force with which the tyre's contact patch is pushed down into the running surface.
If you don't get that, then you need to think of what's happening at a microscopic level between rubber and ashphalt. Thinking back to those physics lessons at school, friction between two surfaces is created by the irregularities, force and compliance of the two materials. E.g. the tyre and the track have peaks and troughs in them invisible to the naked eye - but it is this interaction and 'keying in' of the two surfaces which creates friction.
You can't really change the track's characteristics, but you can influence the tyre's to create as much friction as possible. A softer more compliant tyre compound, or reduced pressures which allow more running surface deformity, CAN improve this friction co-efficient.
HOWEVER - and providing you have stuck with me - this is NOT ALWAYS improved by just fitting bigger / wider tyres. You might think that a bigger / wider contact patch would give you a greater amount of friction, grip and traction, right? Well, no - as per the physics, it depends upon the WEIGHT of the body (i.e. the car) which is pushing / forcing the tyre down into the track.
A car of a certain weight, is pushing every square inch of the contact patches of the tyres down into the track at a set pressure. Forgetting compounds and tyre pressures for a moment - this force is a set force which will not change, unless the car has some serious aero addenda like wings and spoilers. So, you are stuck with what you have.
If you fit wider tyres to the same car, with no other changes or modifications, expecting more grip and traction, then you may be disappointed. This is primarily because you are now presenting, for example, 20% more tyre contact patch to the track surface. However, the weight of the car which is pushing these bigger contact patches down into the track is the same - hence, you actually have a reduced pressure per square inch of contact patch than you had with thinner tyres.
Therefore, in many cases - overall, you have reduced the friction co-efficient available for grip and traction, despite the wider tyres - and will then suffer paradoxically slower lap times....which might even be compounded by less steering / braking feel, and even a greater propensity to aquaplaning in the wet.
Does that all make sense? Sorry for the long physics lesson reply - I've not long come home and was a bit bored, so thought I might offer all my thoughts on the subject, haha! I don't pretend to be an expert, and I may well get shot down in flames by others who know more - but all I am saying is that these basic principles helped me and my team in deciding upon what tyres to run, where and when.
HTH
I can relate to what you've written, when I fitted the 225s up front the car did drive very differently. The steering was heavier, yet more direct in feeling, but I dare day it felt slower on corner exit.
I'm at Angelesey in a few weeks so I think I'll be taking a few different setups to try out on track and see what I prefer. I know it's only a track day but it's all good fun learning about this stuff. I'm more interested to see how my car will perform with 195 A048s vs 225 ones up front. I did love the 225 setup, but if the 195 can give me the same corner speeds but with added corner exit speed that would be sublime!
Many thanks for taking the time to post that.
Captain Muppet said:
Kawasicki said:
Wider tyres grip more, as rubber does not follow conventional friction theory.
Yes, there is less pressure per unit area. So the grip per unit area is reduced. However the grip increases because this is more than compensated for by additional area.
Wider tyres may need more ideal suspension geometry and characteristics (camber stiffness is a good example) than narrower tyres to achieve their potential.
I would go with the narrower, cheaper, tyres, and just enjoy the drive. It's not a race.
I hate it when people simplify tyre grip down to high school physics. The coefficient of friction stuff you do a school just doesn't work for a material that makes chemical bonds with the surface it's sat on. Tyres are sticky and with sticky things more area = more sticky.Yes, there is less pressure per unit area. So the grip per unit area is reduced. However the grip increases because this is more than compensated for by additional area.
Wider tyres may need more ideal suspension geometry and characteristics (camber stiffness is a good example) than narrower tyres to achieve their potential.
I would go with the narrower, cheaper, tyres, and just enjoy the drive. It's not a race.
You're also totally right about less grip being more fun. And cheaper.
I would assume you can run a lower pressure in a wider tyre though, as the shorter patch means the side wall must be deforming less. You could effectively increase the length of the contact patch back to the same as the thinner tyre.
I'm no expert so the last bit could be total b
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