Discussion
Having been on Ted's excellent Caterham Slalom day yesterday I have got the bug for a 7.
Now I have started looking around there seems to be so many 7 variants, which should I go for?
I will be looking for a weekend car, not a daily drive so practicality won't be such an issue. I will likely only drive in good weather but the car will be parked outside so I am thinking a cover will be a must.
I will have to sell the Porsche which will be a shame but I just can't stop thinking about the rawness of the 7, how everything felt so direct.
So with roughly £9-10000 to spend what should I go for? Caterham / Westfield / Tiger / Robin Hood / Striker, should I look at bike engined cars or K series or crossflow?
Sorry for all the questions but I can't get this image out of my head.
Pic by Lexsport
Now I have started looking around there seems to be so many 7 variants, which should I go for?
I will be looking for a weekend car, not a daily drive so practicality won't be such an issue. I will likely only drive in good weather but the car will be parked outside so I am thinking a cover will be a must.
I will have to sell the Porsche which will be a shame but I just can't stop thinking about the rawness of the 7, how everything felt so direct.
So with roughly £9-10000 to spend what should I go for? Caterham / Westfield / Tiger / Robin Hood / Striker, should I look at bike engined cars or K series or crossflow?
Sorry for all the questions but I can't get this image out of my head.
Pic by Lexsport
Depending on where you ask, you'll get different answers. I did the slalom day a couple of years ago...and got a Caterham. TBH though I didn't really consider any of the others (and there are more than you've listed
) Cicuit driver magazine did a review of 7esque track cars recently (here)
Do a search or ask in the kitcar or Caterham forums, your question won't drop off the bottom of the page so quickly
) Cicuit driver magazine did a review of 7esque track cars recently (here) Do a search or ask in the kitcar or Caterham forums, your question won't drop off the bottom of the page so quickly
Avoid Robin Hood and Tiger. The former are generally ill handling sheds, the latter are ok - just not class leaders; a bit heavy, slightly second rate dynamics.
The Sylva is a great little car; check out the results at any 750 Club Kit Car championship for the last 15 years if you need convincing. I've owned a Westfield (1600 Crossflow, live axle), Caterham (1600 Crossflow, DeDion) and currently own a Striker Clubmans and can honestly say that a live axle Sylva is more than a match for a live axle Westfield or Caterham. I've not driven an independent rear Striker, but I'm told that they are very, very good, too.
Only problem with the Striker is that it has more of a 'kit car' image than the Westfield and Caterham, but then it costs around 2/3rds of the price.
The Westfield is a good car, but the quality design and manufacture is still a fair way off Caterham. On the other hand, the lower price of the Westfield means that you will get a superior engine for a given budget.
In terms of engines, the Crossflow is getting long in the tooth and highly tuned variants can be a pain in the ass. My Sylva runs a race tuned, ultra-high compression Crossflow which still only produces maybe 155 genuine horses yet is a bitch to start from cold and just spits and farts at anything less than 3,500 revs!
For a £10K budget you will be pretty much limited to Crossflow or maybe 1.4 K-series Caterhams. Pretty much any engine option you like on the Westfield, with the exception of the Hayabusa. You could buy a Sylva with a Hayabusa engine and have £2K left over, or build one yourself to your own spec. Residual values aren;t quite so good, though.
If it were me, it would be a toss-up between the engineering integrity, image, and good residuals of the Caterham, against the capability, individuality and value for money of the Sylva.
The Sylva is a great little car; check out the results at any 750 Club Kit Car championship for the last 15 years if you need convincing. I've owned a Westfield (1600 Crossflow, live axle), Caterham (1600 Crossflow, DeDion) and currently own a Striker Clubmans and can honestly say that a live axle Sylva is more than a match for a live axle Westfield or Caterham. I've not driven an independent rear Striker, but I'm told that they are very, very good, too.
Only problem with the Striker is that it has more of a 'kit car' image than the Westfield and Caterham, but then it costs around 2/3rds of the price.
The Westfield is a good car, but the quality design and manufacture is still a fair way off Caterham. On the other hand, the lower price of the Westfield means that you will get a superior engine for a given budget.
In terms of engines, the Crossflow is getting long in the tooth and highly tuned variants can be a pain in the ass. My Sylva runs a race tuned, ultra-high compression Crossflow which still only produces maybe 155 genuine horses yet is a bitch to start from cold and just spits and farts at anything less than 3,500 revs!
For a £10K budget you will be pretty much limited to Crossflow or maybe 1.4 K-series Caterhams. Pretty much any engine option you like on the Westfield, with the exception of the Hayabusa. You could buy a Sylva with a Hayabusa engine and have £2K left over, or build one yourself to your own spec. Residual values aren;t quite so good, though.
If it were me, it would be a toss-up between the engineering integrity, image, and good residuals of the Caterham, against the capability, individuality and value for money of the Sylva.
I love my Westie, but I guess you'll have as much fun in any of the variants if you're used to something less 'raw'. You will most probably get a better specified Westie for your money, you just need to make sure that it is well put together if it isn't factory built.
Saying that though, if I had £40k burning a hole in my pocket, I think I would be straight down the Caterham showrooms buying a CSR 260!
£10k would most probably get you a similar Westie to mine, factory built with most of the extras you would want.
>> Edited by .Adam. on Monday 9th May 22:55
Saying that though, if I had £40k burning a hole in my pocket, I think I would be straight down the Caterham showrooms buying a CSR 260!
£10k would most probably get you a similar Westie to mine, factory built with most of the extras you would want.
>> Edited by .Adam. on Monday 9th May 22:55
The liberator off Blakes 7 for people of a younger generation. scared but happy said:
(need remake now 1000000% better than Dr Who)
Your wish is Terry Nation's command: www.blakes7.com/
News from the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3102295.stm
Apparently coming this year!
Edit: Apologies for the thread hijack!
>> Edited by Witchfinder on Monday 9th May 23:41
I've owned both a Westie and a Caterham.
The Westie had a nice powder coated chassis that looked like it would never go rusty.
The Caterham chassis only had a superficial coat of black paint which was easier to scratch.
The Caterham had a lovely ally body, which is superior to the plastic Westfield in terms of fit and finish, but again is less well equipped to be left outside.
In terms of ride and handling, there wasn't much in it. They are both well engineered and well developed cars.
I am 6'2" and nearly 16 stone, so I didn't really fit in my Caterham, but that might not be a problem for you.
For £9000 I'd probably build my own wide bodied Westie, but at that price there are plenty of 1600 X-flow Caterhams to be had.
Cheers
Pat
The Westie had a nice powder coated chassis that looked like it would never go rusty.
The Caterham chassis only had a superficial coat of black paint which was easier to scratch.
The Caterham had a lovely ally body, which is superior to the plastic Westfield in terms of fit and finish, but again is less well equipped to be left outside.
In terms of ride and handling, there wasn't much in it. They are both well engineered and well developed cars.
I am 6'2" and nearly 16 stone, so I didn't really fit in my Caterham, but that might not be a problem for you.
For £9000 I'd probably build my own wide bodied Westie, but at that price there are plenty of 1600 X-flow Caterhams to be had.
Cheers
Pat
ozzie dave said:Servolan
I take servere objection - Name 1 famous Blakes 7 adversary ! Thought not !
NB your budget would do a good striker with Toyota power .
I posted on your duplicate thread in the Caterham forum
But to add to what people have said here. If you get a 1.4 K series make sure it's got a 6 speed box, it's a real pain otherwise.
You might just be able to find a de-dion 1.6 k for that price it will probably be a bit tatty, much better car though
Latest issue of totalkitcar magazine just happens to have a group test comparing the latest Seven from Caterham against the opposition. Might be worth you buying a copy from Smiths or www.totalkitcar.com
Martin_s said:
Avoid Robin Hood and Tiger. The former are generally ill handling sheds, the latter are ok - just not class leaders; a bit heavy, slightly second rate dynamics.
A little harsh about Robin Hood as I think it depends on how it was built and using what, but in general you have a point. I used to own a Robin Hood S7 2.1 Pinto and have just done the PH Slalom day and I have to say there is a world of difference between a Robin Hood and Caterham.
With a £9-10K budget a Robin Hood isn't even worth looking at as you can get something far better. Robin Hoods can have their place, but it's firmly at the bottom end of the market - £4-5K is pretty much top end of Robin Hood money...
</Matt>
Incorrigible said:
Graham, how dod it compare to the "circuit driver" test last month
I haven't had chance to see TKC yet
I believe its the same test. If so it makes the non-Caterham manufacturers look very naive. For a head to head test like this I'd have expected them to make very sure that their cars were on super sticky rubber and setup as well as they could be. As it was, several cars had serious handling problems and a wide variety of different tyres were used.
Maybe the wet weather didn't help with setup and maybe this being the first test of its kind meant the manufacturers weren't switched on enough, but I think they should have done a better job.
Having said that, the integrity of the test isn't without question either. Why do the speed traces show several of the cars backing off at the end of the lap for example? I've also had it suggested to me that the R300 used wasn't an R300 at all, but I'm not convinced by that.
d-man said:
If so it makes the non-Caterham manufacturers look very naive. For a head to head test like this I'd have expected them to make very sure that their cars were on super sticky rubber and setup as well as they could be. As it was, several cars had serious handling problems and a wide variety of different tyres were used.
Yes they were naive - Tiger were told on more than one occasion that the cars were not going to be timed, and supplied a R6 with a 165 BHP engine and standard siera box. They were so naive as to believe what they were told!
There is a long post on the Tiger Owners club site from Jim Dudley on the matter - he wasn't best pleased.
supercat said:
If so it makes the non-Caterham manufacturers look very naive. For a head to head test like this I'd have expected them to make very sure that their cars were on super sticky rubber and setup as well as they could be. As it was, several cars had serious handling problems and a wide variety of different tyres were used.
Yes they were naive - Tiger were told on more than one occasion that the cars were not going to be timed, and supplied a R6 with a 165 BHP engine and standard siera box. They were so naive as to believe what they were told!
There is a long post on the Tiger Owners club site from Jim Dudley on the matter - he wasn't best pleased.
Yep! My understanding too. Some people did themselves no favours on this one. I wonder how they'll be greeted next time they want to test a car?
Do not dismiss the Tiger totally. A carefully specced R6 is a properly sorted car. The £9k budget mentioned should get a very nice Zetec powered car with all the right bits. One of the problems with the 7 market at the moment is the very wide choice of good cars. Caterham still build the best but at top end money. Thought about a Birkin?
Paul.B
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff