Putting your life at risk for the sake of your ego????

[Fat Audi 80]

Why are some drivers prepared to put their own life and others at risk for the sake of their ego?

Let me explain:

Tonight on the way home (Wallingford ring road for anyone in Oxfordshire) and I am following a mondeo TDCI. We are both following another car. We have just entered the last section of this fast gently sweeping right hander that has excellent visability and is about a mile long (wide single carriageway). Mondeo mans pulls out to overtake (nothing coming) I follow and floor it. He pulls back in after overtake and I stay out (as I normally do if pressing on - still nothing coming). Mondeo mans sees this and continues to accelerate. I have already decided to overtake him and am gunning it throught the gears. Mondeo man continues to accelerate (we are now well over legal limit). A car appears on the horizon, as it appears I am approximately along side and still accelerating faster than him. The oncoming car is now closing, I have time to glance over my shoulder to check I can actually get back in and do so. I am now approximately 6 - 10 feet ahead of him and he has his lights up on full beam and leaves them on. I feel sorry for the oncoming driver, I never intended to exposed to danger as long as I was. I don't think the oncoming driver had to brake but as a result I was not happy with my overtake in fact it was close to bloody dangerous and something I am not proud of.

Why 'o' why when I was alongside the Mondeo with plenty of room did he continue to accelerate and put at least three lives in danger????

I am happy let people go and happy to back off if someone is making progress and overtaking. I felt I made a perfectly acceptable manouvere. I do not feel as if I drive with and ego but am at loss as to understand what was going through this mans mind apart from not to let me past come hell or high water. (I had done nothing that I can think of to agitate him prior to my overtake...)

I would welcome any advice or critism as required.

Cheers,

Steve

[LuS1fer]

If your ego didn't count, wouldn't you have braked and slipped in behind him in that scenario as soon as you realised he was accelerating harder to try to keep you behind? It's always difficult to judge the situation when it's written but I'd have let him go.

[deltafox]

The correct answer is that he has a very small member and feels the need to impose himself on you.

Plenty of dicks like this out there,(probably got a Speed kills sticker on the car someplace), you just have to have a car thats capable of blitzing the opposition in case this kind of scenario (all too often) pops up.
Muppets.

[neilcharlton]

buy a faster car . with a TVR you would have had no problem ! ;-)
on a serious note i think he was just a t0sser, theres lots of them about

[Fat Audi 80]

LuS1fer said:

If your ego didn't count, wouldn't you have braked and slipped in behind him in that scenario as soon as you realised he was accelerating harder to try to keep you behind? It's always difficult to judge the situation when it's written but I'd have let him go.

True, and I would have if that would have been easier than moving in in front. I take your point but I was past the point of no return as it were. I guess if I am honest I thought he was going to back off because I would have done if I were in his position. I expected him to yield as soon as it started getting messy. I have the moral high ground from the point of view of the high way code stating that you should always slow down for the overtaker.

I did not believe he was going to keep his foot in and push me all the way.

Cheers,

Steve

[Prof Beard]

As far as I can it, this has to be viewed both ways:

You: Man in front pulls out to overtake, you follow, he pulls back in, you stay out to overtake him as well "to press on", he carries on accelerating, thats puts you at risk.

Him: He pulls out to overtake (to "press on", once past he pulls back in, the bloke behind stays out, despite the fact that he is "pressing on", and struggles to get past, thereby putting him at risk.

Or to take a negative view:

You: After he had overtaken he carried on accelerating to stop you getting past, rather that backing off to let you safely past

Him: He was just pressing on, why should he have to slow down because you can't accelerate as fast as you needed to complete the manoeuvre

Oh br - I've come over all liberal, soemone help me quick!

[Fat Audi 80]

neilcharlton said:

buy a faster car . with a TVR you would have had no problem ! ;-) on a serious note i think he was just a t0sser, theres lots of them about

I have! but it was tucked up in the bloody garage nice and warm. If I had been in my Audi S2 I would have probably been at home by the time the other car appeared but I was in my MKII 16v golf that is no slouch and can pull but obviously not enough for this bloke.

[itsadeal]

You had clearly entered a game with a baffoon or so he thought, its a difficult call as too who was putting who at risk
here? Neither wishing to give up the chase, however ever you were the one at risk and facing on coming traffic. Clearly he was a donkey, but I would have hit the brakes and pulled in behind him once I had reached my desired speed!

Your right to moan but its "letting a donkey risk your life" which I am sure you are more then capable to do on your own.

Treat your self to a TVR it will never happen again, Oh and have a nice week end you deserve it!

Paul

ps. Oh i see your posting, use the tuscan on fridays then!

>> Edited by itsadeal on Friday 10th March 20:45

[Fat Audi 80]

deltafox said:

The correct answer is that he has a very small member and feels the need to impose himself on you. Plenty of dicks like this out there,(probably got a Speed kills sticker on the car someplace), you just have to have a car thats capable of blitzing the opposition in case this kind of scenario (all too often) pops up. Muppets.

Hi Delta,

Yeah I know. I was not in the S2 though....

(I would have been but it has been in the garage for so long the battery was flat this morning so I didn't get my friday supercar day....

Cheers,

Steve

[ridds]

Had you been following him/the other car for a while? Perhaps he wanted to press on more than you.

Normally in those situations, unless I'd been held up by Mondeo Man for a while prior to the overtake, I'd have pulled in behind him to see what speed he was going to travel at.

Although I do agree with you, some people just don't know when to stop making a point.

[Prof Beard]

itsadeal said:

Treat your self to a TVR it will never happen again

This is just "fastest gun in the west" stuff - with that, someone was always faster eventually...

Gunfighters kill each other...

[Fat Audi 80]

itsadeal said:

You had clearly entered a game with a baffoon or so he thought, its a difficult call as too who was putting who at risk here? Neither wishing to give up the chase, however ever you were the one at risk and facing on coming traffic. Clearly he was a donkey, but I would have hit the brakes and pulled in behind him once I had reached my desired speed! Your right to moan but its "letting a donkey risk your life" which I am sure you are more then capable to do on your own. Treat your self to a TVR it will never happen again, Oh and have a nice week end you deserve it! Paul

Cheers Paul,

Some good advice and good perspective from the Mondeo's point of view. I guess my take on it is, if I was pressing on a la mondeo and the other guy was clearly gaining on me and had nearly completed the overtake I would have backed off no question. That is my slight problem with this.
Anyway as I have already expained, fate conspired against me today and the Audi S2 Turbo had a flat battery so I was stuck in the golf gti....

Cheers,

Steve

[Fat Audi 80]

ridds said:

Had you been following him/the other car for a while? Perhaps he wanted to press on more than you. Normally in those situations, unless I'd been held up by Mondeo Man for a while prior to the overtake, I'd have pulled in behind him to see what speed he was going to travel at. Although I do agree with you, some people just don't know when to stop making a point.

We had both been in relatively slow moving traffic for a while. I did not actually have a chance to gauge his general approach to speed or the progress he was making. Is 110 mph normal? It is for me, but I rarely encounter others that drive as quickly as me, especially in Mondeo diesel estates. I believe if I had done the INCORRECT (by roadcraft and my training) manouvere and tucked back in (not arousing his attention) and then slipped out from behind he would have been none the wiser. But as I stayed out with my headlights on, it felt like he deliberately raced me to over 100mph. Again I don't know but it felt bloody aggressive and dangerous..

Cheers,

Steve

[gdaybruce]

Given the scenario you describe, he should definitely have eased off to let you safely past. That said, I wonder if he kept his foot down specifically to stop you coming past (i.e. he's a moron) or if he always intended to keep accelerating anyway, just as you did, but had a slightly slower car than you. If so, he should still have let you past rather than trying to race but one can understand a little more why he was unhelpful.

From your point of view, once you realised what was happening it becomes a difficult judgement call as to whether to keep going or brake sharply and tuck in behind. If the latter, would he brake too just to block you? No definitive answer but the morale is, perhaps, to check what speed he is doing before committing to the overtake. Or, as others have said, make sure you've got a healthy surplus of acceleration!

[dilbert]

This is always going to be a tough scenario.

For the Audi, the Mondeo probably assumed that the Audi was going to pull in behind. Nothing wrong with that, but when the Audi didn't, the Mondeo was loathed to back off because, if he did, there's a good chance that the Audi wouldn't brake hard enough, and the Mondeo would essentially be stopping dead in front Audi.

When overtaking you have to realise that the car you're overtaking can't always see you.

For the Audi the problem is similar, especially if space is limited. If the Mondeo had slowed, and the Audi decided to drop in behind, the Audi has to judge the braking such that it doesn't stop dead infront of the grey car that everyone is overtaking.

My own suggestion is simple and it's been learned the hard way. If the car in fron overtakes, and you want to too, then wait until he's finished his manouver, before you start yours.

[Momentofmadness]

Prof Beard said:

As far as I can it, this has to be viewed both ways: You: Man in front pulls out to overtake, you follow, he pulls back in, you stay out to overtake him as well "to press on", he carries on accelerating, thats puts you at risk. Him: He pulls out to overtake (to "press on", once past he pulls back in, the bloke behind stays out, despite the fact that he is "pressing on", and struggles to get past, thereby putting him at risk.

This seems entirely plausible and following another vehicle through on an overtake isn't always a brilliant idea...

Of course if Mondeo man had pulled in and only started flooring it in response to be overtaken, then I'd have feigned not seeing him and begin to move back in - that would get him on the anchors

[Fat Audi 80]

gdaybruce said:

Given the scenario you describe, he should definitely have eased off to let you safely past. That said, I wonder if he kept his foot down specifically to stop you coming past (i.e. he's a moron) or if he always intended to keep accelerating anyway, just as you did, but had a slightly slower car than you. If so, he should still have let you past rather than trying to race but one can understand a little more why he was unhelpful. From your point of view, once you realised what was happening it becomes a difficult judgement call as to whether to keep going or brake sharply and tuck in behind. If the latter, would he brake too just to block you? No definitive answer but the morale is, perhaps, to check what speed he is doing before committing to the overtake. Or, as others have said, make sure you've got a healthy surplus of acceleration!

Hi Bruce,

Very true, I am not completely blameless in this. I could have back off much earlier (there was no need though as not other cars were present) I could have back off later on, but that can often cause problems if you BOTH back off. In the end I knew I could get back in front without a major incident. (You can get three astride if you need to but that is a horrible way to end up).

As for checking his speed before committing to the overtake, that is the best observation yet, and I am still unsure if my planning was lacking in that respect. Perhaps I should have followed to see if the overtake was on. Experience tells me that very few people exceed 100mph on the ring road and if they do they usuall drive a car that would indicate this. I may have met the exception to the rule, but it felt like he saw me stay out and kept his foot in.

We will never know.

All I know is the Highway code states that you should always let the overtaker past even if you have to brake, but I don't want that written on my tombstone.

Cheers

Steve.

[Fat Audi 80]

dilbert said:

This is always going to be a tough scenario. For the Audi, the Mondeo probably assumed that the Audi was going to pull in behind. Nothing wrong with that, but when the Audi didn't, the Mondeo was loathed to back off because, if he did, there's a good chance that the Audi wouldn't brake hard enough, and the Mondeo would essentially be stopping dead in front Audi. When overtaking you have to realise that the car you're overtaking can't always see you. For the Audi the problem is similar, especially if space is limited. If the Mondeo had slowed, and the Audi decided to drop in behind, the Audi has to judge the braking such that it doesn't stop dead infront of the grey car that everyone is overtaking. My own suggestion is simple and it's been learned the hard way. If the car in fron overtakes, and you want to too, then wait until he's finished his manouver, before you start yours.

Perhaps I did not explain it well enough.

Basically we had both just passed a car, me behind the mondeo, as the mondeo pulled back in AFTER his overtake, I stayed out. I had alrady observed ahead and planned to stay out. We had approximatly half a mile of clear road. I then began the overtake of the mondeo. I believe he saw this and carried on accelerating. It was when another car appeared on the horizon as I was completing the overtake that it got messy...

To confuse you even more I was in my Golf GTI 16v and my Audi S2 Coupe was at home in the garage (more's the pity )

Cheers,

Steve

[dilbert]

Fat Audi 80 said:

gdaybruce said: Given the scenario you describe, he should definitely have eased off to let you safely past. That said, I wonder if he kept his foot down specifically to stop you coming past (i.e. he's a moron) or if he always intended to keep accelerating anyway, just as you did, but had a slightly slower car than you. If so, he should still have let you past rather than trying to race but one can understand a little more why he was unhelpful. From your point of view, once you realised what was happening it becomes a difficult judgement call as to whether to keep going or brake sharply and tuck in behind. If the latter, would he brake too just to block you? No definitive answer but the morale is, perhaps, to check what speed he is doing before committing to the overtake. Or, as others have said, make sure you've got a healthy surplus of acceleration! Hi Bruce, Very true, I am not completely blameless in this. I could have back off much earlier (there was no need though as not other cars were present) I could have back off later on, but that can often cause problems if you BOTH back off. In the end I knew I could get back in front without a major incident. (You can get three astride if you need to but that is a horrible way to end up). As for checking his speed before committing to the overtake, that is the best observation yet, and I am still unsure if my planning was lacking in that respect. Perhaps I should have followed to see if the overtake was on. Experience tells me that very few people exceed 100mph on the ring road and if they do they usuall drive a car that would indicate this. I may have met the exception to the rule, but it felt like he saw me stay out and kept his foot in. We will never know. All I know is the Highway code states that you should always let the overtaker past even if you have to brake, but I don't want that written on my tombstone. Cheers Steve.

I didn't learn this particular thing the hard way, but another similar one. In that instance, I behaved in the only commonsense way I could. It made me think, but when I checked out the highway code, I was not at fault.

The only other thing I would say, is that in situations like this, the "decision space" is so small. You can make the right decision in the time. You can't garantee the other guy will.


>> Edited by dilbert on Friday 10th March 21:17

[gdaybruce]

Of course, the real nightmare scenario is when you meet another version of yourself coming the other way at a similar speed (and maybe overtaking). Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition and nobody expects a closing speed of 200+mph on a single carriageway road ....!

I've always tried to remember that possibility since once, many years ago, when overtaking a string of cars in my Lotus Elan (rwd), what should I meet coming the other way but ... another Lotus Elan. Very embarassing.