Discussion
The one on the pics above belongs to rubenrocket
>> Edited by klassiekerrally on Sunday 2nd April 18:59
>> Edited by klassiekerrally on Sunday 2nd April 18:59
There are only about a dozen of us left in the UK. Most of these are in collections and are rarely seen out. I was at the Goodwood Breakfast Club in March, and hope to get to one or two more, so come and say hello (mine's dark racing green with yellow stripes).
The engine is the Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP motor
The engine is the Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP motor
Hirich said:
There are only about a dozen of us left in the UK. Most of these are in collections and are rarely seen out. I was at the Goodwood Breakfast Club in March, and hope to get to one or two more, so come and say hello (mine's dark racing green with yellow stripes).
The engine is the Yamaha FZR1000 EXUP motor
Hi Richard
do you have any photos of your rocket , I know Rubins is planning to paint his rocket a similar colour.
let me know when your having your next meet and if im in the UK i'll drive the Lotus down
cheers
David
Picking up questions on this and the other thread.
Julian
Kit car? KIT CAR???
OK, it does say that on the V5, I guess, but it was only sold fully-built. At about £30k, 15 years ago, it was seen as very expensive* (though now it would be broadly competitive with a top line Caterham), so only about 38 were constructed. Many went to famous and wealthy enthusiasts (Bill Gates has 'several'). Since then, many have moved to Japan & Hong Kong. The few remaining in Britain (Chris Craft, Gordon Murray and Martin Birrane own the first three; I believe George Harrison's son has retained his) remain in fairly exclusive hands.
Rarity, and the (arguable) point that nothing with four wheels has approached their intensity makes them collectable.
*They were expensive partly because it was a no-compromise design. Until you see one in the flesh, you won't realise that it's not a 'kit-car' box of bits - unique transaxle design, brakes developed by Brembo, three choices of fully-developed dampers, etc.
Alex
If you are seriously interested, you must speak to Chris Holley at the factory (still at Stanford-in-the-Vale). He knows every chassis, its history, and whether it's up for sale. Prices can vary a bit, depending on how willing the owner is to sell, but £25k should guarantee you one. You might be lucky and get one for £20k, and I know of one where the owner is optimistically holding out for £30k.
If you convince Chris you are serious, he will be very helpful, and give you good, honest advice. Tell him Rich sent you (I act as the unoffical salesman and archivist!). I've also written for other buyers some notes on the practical side of living with the car. If you want, drop me a PM and I'll see if I can find them.
Dino
They just don't need ARBs - if you are missing them you really should be driving something with Dallara on the nose. I've found mine very predictable on both track and road (provided you don't run track damper settings on a bumpy road...).
The engine isn't just bolted to the chassis. It is the chassis. There are only four small tubes behind the bulkhead. I don't have a problem with the vibrations. I find it no worse than a Se7en, just higher frequencies, and have driven 3 hours to Cadwell without a problem.
DBS
I only have a couple of photos, and a nice painting my parents got me for my birthday (car looks fine, I look worse than real life). PM me an email, and i'll sort one out.
Julian
Kit car? KIT CAR???
OK, it does say that on the V5, I guess, but it was only sold fully-built. At about £30k, 15 years ago, it was seen as very expensive* (though now it would be broadly competitive with a top line Caterham), so only about 38 were constructed. Many went to famous and wealthy enthusiasts (Bill Gates has 'several'). Since then, many have moved to Japan & Hong Kong. The few remaining in Britain (Chris Craft, Gordon Murray and Martin Birrane own the first three; I believe George Harrison's son has retained his) remain in fairly exclusive hands.
Rarity, and the (arguable) point that nothing with four wheels has approached their intensity makes them collectable.
*They were expensive partly because it was a no-compromise design. Until you see one in the flesh, you won't realise that it's not a 'kit-car' box of bits - unique transaxle design, brakes developed by Brembo, three choices of fully-developed dampers, etc.
Alex
If you are seriously interested, you must speak to Chris Holley at the factory (still at Stanford-in-the-Vale). He knows every chassis, its history, and whether it's up for sale. Prices can vary a bit, depending on how willing the owner is to sell, but £25k should guarantee you one. You might be lucky and get one for £20k, and I know of one where the owner is optimistically holding out for £30k.
If you convince Chris you are serious, he will be very helpful, and give you good, honest advice. Tell him Rich sent you (I act as the unoffical salesman and archivist!). I've also written for other buyers some notes on the practical side of living with the car. If you want, drop me a PM and I'll see if I can find them.
Dino
They just don't need ARBs - if you are missing them you really should be driving something with Dallara on the nose. I've found mine very predictable on both track and road (provided you don't run track damper settings on a bumpy road...).
The engine isn't just bolted to the chassis. It is the chassis. There are only four small tubes behind the bulkhead. I don't have a problem with the vibrations. I find it no worse than a Se7en, just higher frequencies, and have driven 3 hours to Cadwell without a problem.
DBS
I only have a couple of photos, and a nice painting my parents got me for my birthday (car looks fine, I look worse than real life). PM me an email, and i'll sort one out.
Hirich said:
Picking up questions on this and the other thread.
Julian
Kit car? KIT CAR???
OK, it does say that on the V5, I guess, but it was only sold fully-built. At about £30k, 15 years ago, it was seen as very expensive* (though now it would be broadly competitive with a top line Caterham), so only about 38 were constructed. Many went to famous and wealthy enthusiasts (Bill Gates has 'several'). Since then, many have moved to Japan & Hong Kong. The few remaining in Britain (Chris Craft, Gordon Murray and Martin Birrane own the first three; I believe George Harrison's son has retained his) remain in fairly exclusive hands.
Rarity, and the (arguable) point that nothing with four wheels has approached their intensity makes them collectable.
*They were expensive partly because it was a no-compromise design. Until you see one in the flesh, you won't realise that it's not a 'kit-car' box of bits - unique transaxle design, brakes developed by Brembo, three choices of fully-developed dampers, etc.
Anywhere I can go to read about them?
By the way I don't understand the derrogatory nature of the word kit car. I have a few of my own if you look at my profile. Was thinking seriously of an SS100 kit which comes fully built with a price tag of about 50K. In fact I would consider my TVR an expensive kit car with probably not the build quality of my other two kit cars.
I'm still wondering a little bit, although not trying to offend, that in this day and age of many superbly built bike engined kit cars why the rocket seems to have cornered the market in exclusive patrons.
Should have had a winky smiley on that comment. Some kits cars are better than others.
Since their website shut, and until I get my finger out and create a new one, it's quite hard to find information. They are forgotten by a lot of the mainstream, and what little is available was either written by someone who's never even seen one, or is OTT in praise. The classic is the original CAR test (PM me with an email addy).
There are two elements to this. First, the 'legend' was created:
- It was (unless anyone knows better) the first superbike-engined performance car, in itself a radical concept.
- It was perhaps the most uncompromised 'race car for the road' for 40 years or so, perhaps back to Uhlenhaut's SLR
- The 'single-seater' layout was radical, perhaps similar to when the Miura appeared.
- The performance was astonishing. Autocar recorded 0-100 in under 7 seconds (second only to the F1 at the time) and 60-100 in 2.56s (quicker than the F1).
- It had the cachet of being designed by Gordon Murray. Fresh off designing the McLarens with which Senna and Prost had been dominating the World Championship. GM is regarded as amongst the very best ever, and was also one of the last who could design the whole car.
- Everyone who reviewed it raved about it. Many people remember Tiff spanking it around a rather defunct, pre-Revival Goodwood, and the CAR cover story is one of their most famous (certainly what lit the flame for me)
- When you actually drive it, it is really something special. Whilst paper performance is 'only' R400 territory, the way it delivers it was/is so different. The Rocket feels so much lighter, more nimble than a Se7en (which is going some).
Secondly came the 'exclusive patrons' thing. Well the cost was one factor (indeed, part of its downfall - if you wanted a great track car, you could buy a secondhand FFord and still have cash for a trailer and an LR Discovery towcar). But also there were the connections. Many of the secret celeb petrolheads knew GM or Chris Craft, either directly or indirectly, and were hooked. As well as those mentioned, Dave Gilmour and the drummer from Dire Straits bought early chassis. Jay Leno has one of the very last. Most chassis have either a celeb or family connection at some point, and mine is one of just a few that has only been owned by plebs.
I would also argue (and no offence was taken) about there being "many superbly built bike engined kit cars". For many years people didn't get the whole deal. Early Se7en BECs used the Blackbird motor - powerful, but I've been told it was hugely overweight and with the rigidity of Jello. The EXUP motor is rigid, very light and forms the bulk of the rear structure. As a result the car weighs in at 360-380kg (excluding fatty here), a figure even the carboniest of lightweights struggle to approach.
Even now, the BEC is a most often a transplant rather than a truly integrated design, which means redundant weight in the structure that has to be supported, damped, braked and rotated.
There are a lot of good BECs but I would argue that there are very few road legal versions that would qualify as superb. Perhaps only the Radicals combine performance, wow-factor and "what the hell is that idiot driving!" in the same way, and have quite rightly gained a similar reputation.
Since their website shut, and until I get my finger out and create a new one, it's quite hard to find information. They are forgotten by a lot of the mainstream, and what little is available was either written by someone who's never even seen one, or is OTT in praise. The classic is the original CAR test (PM me with an email addy).
Julian64 said:
I'm still wondering a little bit, although not trying to offend, that in this day and age of many superbly built bike engined kit cars why the rocket seems to have cornered the market in exclusive patrons.
There are two elements to this. First, the 'legend' was created:
- It was (unless anyone knows better) the first superbike-engined performance car, in itself a radical concept.
- It was perhaps the most uncompromised 'race car for the road' for 40 years or so, perhaps back to Uhlenhaut's SLR
- The 'single-seater' layout was radical, perhaps similar to when the Miura appeared.
- The performance was astonishing. Autocar recorded 0-100 in under 7 seconds (second only to the F1 at the time) and 60-100 in 2.56s (quicker than the F1).
- It had the cachet of being designed by Gordon Murray. Fresh off designing the McLarens with which Senna and Prost had been dominating the World Championship. GM is regarded as amongst the very best ever, and was also one of the last who could design the whole car.
- Everyone who reviewed it raved about it. Many people remember Tiff spanking it around a rather defunct, pre-Revival Goodwood, and the CAR cover story is one of their most famous (certainly what lit the flame for me)
- When you actually drive it, it is really something special. Whilst paper performance is 'only' R400 territory, the way it delivers it was/is so different. The Rocket feels so much lighter, more nimble than a Se7en (which is going some).
Secondly came the 'exclusive patrons' thing. Well the cost was one factor (indeed, part of its downfall - if you wanted a great track car, you could buy a secondhand FFord and still have cash for a trailer and an LR Discovery towcar). But also there were the connections. Many of the secret celeb petrolheads knew GM or Chris Craft, either directly or indirectly, and were hooked. As well as those mentioned, Dave Gilmour and the drummer from Dire Straits bought early chassis. Jay Leno has one of the very last. Most chassis have either a celeb or family connection at some point, and mine is one of just a few that has only been owned by plebs.
I would also argue (and no offence was taken) about there being "many superbly built bike engined kit cars". For many years people didn't get the whole deal. Early Se7en BECs used the Blackbird motor - powerful, but I've been told it was hugely overweight and with the rigidity of Jello. The EXUP motor is rigid, very light and forms the bulk of the rear structure. As a result the car weighs in at 360-380kg (excluding fatty here), a figure even the carboniest of lightweights struggle to approach.
Even now, the BEC is a most often a transplant rather than a truly integrated design, which means redundant weight in the structure that has to be supported, damped, braked and rotated.
There are a lot of good BECs but I would argue that there are very few road legal versions that would qualify as superb. Perhaps only the Radicals combine performance, wow-factor and "what the hell is that idiot driving!" in the same way, and have quite rightly gained a similar reputation.
colin5577 said:The situation has changed a bit. Suggestions for acquiring one of the originals have been offered.
I don't know if ou saw my comments on the other Rocket thread, but us plebs, weren't actually given that much encouragement to buy - even when the company was not selling any cars. I tried my best and got nowhere.
Alternatively, if you want to get a new one made, it may be possible - and in a very user-friendly way.
Well - I'd certainly be ready to talk to the guys again, and maybe pop in. It's been a while, so I wouldn't mind trying one out again - in the interim I've had a few caterhams and Elises so I'd like to make sure my performance horizons haven't shifted. But I'd be interested. the Rocket is an itch I never got to scratch, and it would be a fabulous toy to hang onto even whilst the Elises/Exiges come and go.
Colin, I did see your comments and should have replied. Chris Craft is no longer part of the story, and the company is now owned by Brandon Wang - nappy magnate, and owner of a 250GTO amongst other very impressive toys. The factory acts as much as his personal garage as the source of the Rocket (which means a trip there will usually elicit a "Well I've never seen one of those in the flesh before"
.
Chris Holley runs the show. He's an engineer rather than a salesman, so don't expect to haggle. But provided you've got on his good side (Tips: know your classic cars, make it clear you want the car to use not display, and make clear you have cash and are ready to buy) he will be very straight with you (ie he won't claim every chassis is a minter, he'll fill you in on the background, and he knows everything that can go wrong and every custom modification possible).
There are normally one or two on the market privately. Chris will know about them, and will act as a contact or agent. Otherwise there might be a deal on a couple of race chassis still there that might conceivably be converted to road spec. And theoretically they could build a brand new one, though the price would be nearly double (so close to £50k)
. Chris Holley runs the show. He's an engineer rather than a salesman, so don't expect to haggle. But provided you've got on his good side (Tips: know your classic cars, make it clear you want the car to use not display, and make clear you have cash and are ready to buy) he will be very straight with you (ie he won't claim every chassis is a minter, he'll fill you in on the background, and he knows everything that can go wrong and every custom modification possible).
There are normally one or two on the market privately. Chris will know about them, and will act as a contact or agent. Otherwise there might be a deal on a couple of race chassis still there that might conceivably be converted to road spec. And theoretically they could build a brand new one, though the price would be nearly double (so close to £50k)
I've met Chris - lovely guy, and I could definitely bore the arse off him regarding classic cars. I bore myself about classic cars, so he's going sleepy bye-byes if he opens his gob. I'll be in the UK relatively soon to finalise an Exige order, so I shall get in touch and see if he's around, and to make sure he pops some speed or acid before I drop in and put my jaw into Grand Mal Seizure. Even if I don't buy one straight away, it would be good to earmark one as a next purchase if I know they can still be got. As I said before, this is an itch that has to be scratched sooner or later.
Hirich said:
Colin, I did see your comments and should have replied. Chris Craft is no longer part of the story, and the company is now owned by Brandon Wang ...
I don't want to be contentious, but this is no longer correct.
Chris Craft is, again, very much part of the story.
Chris is the former world-class sports car racer (GC podiums at Le Mans, etc.) who was the force behind the Rocket project. The car was designed by his good friend Gordon Murray, but Chris did the organising, development, construction, etc.
In the mid-late'90s, Brandon Wang took over majority ownership of the project, and did what he did, as Hirich indicates. Chris remained involved but to a lesser extent.
Chris Craft and Brandon Wang recently agreed that Chris would return to owning and running the business. This agreement made sense to both men and was completely amicable and constructive.
So...
At the time when the cars were in production, Rocket made ten chassis for what was intended to be a race series. As is typically the case, at the last minute the sponsorship for the series fell through.
For the last several years, ten brand-new chassis, bodies, sets of suspension parts, etc. have sat peacefully waiting to be used.
Now that he has taken the business back from Brandon, Chris is willing to use the new parts and make ten final Rockets. The chassis numbers will be 39/1R, 40/2R, etc., as the original road cars numbered to 38.
The cars will be SVA'd, so there is no problem with road legality.
The main differences between these and the pure road cars are that they have integral rear roll hoops (which Chris will make detachable if you want) and a smaller roll hoop over the instrument binnacle. If you want the car to have a road-style binnacle (which is a carbon-fibre gem, btw) Chris will remove the small front hoop as well. Frame and body painted to suit, etc. They are lovely little things.
One or two of the Rockets are spoken for, so maybe there are eight available as new cars.
Chris is located near Chigwell, Essex. He is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. If anyone has a serious interest in a Rocket and wishes to contact him, his number is: 0208 501 1616.
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