How are electric cars going to save CO2 emmissions?

[s2art]

Broken off the Climate change thread.
Well? Any electric car enthusiasts out there?

[brum]

Becuase they plug into the mains rather than run on petroleum and everyone knows that electricity is generated from fairtrade organic humous

[thewave]

s2art said:

Any electric car enthusiasts out there?

[ludo]

s2art said:

Broken off the Climate change thread.
Well? Any electric car enthusiasts out there?

I though the main advantage of electric cars was that it would reduce the pollution in large cities, rather than being efficient in terms of CO2? Having said that, if carbon capture is more feasible for power stations that individual cars, there may be a net benefit that overcomes the losses in energy conversion etc.

The main benefit is that the Tesla is a very nice looking car (wouldn't swap it for my Elise though, - too heavy).

[bitwrx]

s2art said:

Broken off the Climate change thread.
Well? Any electric car enthusiasts out there?

More efficient hence more energy at the wheels per unit of fossil fuel burned. I think that's the premise. Not sure if it stacks up though.

Or if we have nuclear or renewables, no C02 at all.

[s2art]

ludo said:

s2art said:

Broken off the Climate change thread.
Well? Any electric car enthusiasts out there?

I though the main advantage of electric cars was that it would reduce the pollution in large cities, rather than being efficient in terms of CO2? Having said that, if carbon capture is more feasible for power stations that individual cars, there may be a net benefit that overcomes the losses in energy conversion etc.

The main benefit is that the Tesla is a very nice looking car (wouldn't swap it for my Elise though, - too heavy).

AFAICT modern cars clean the air in the big cities.
If fossil fuel power station carbon capture is implemented then the CO2 created by cars is somewhat irrelevant.
Re the Tesla. Would be a greener car with a modern turbo diesel fitted. And it would have decent range.

[ln1234]

Which would release more carbon emissions:-

1. A Coal/Nuclear/Gas Electric power stations providing power for 1000 cars
2. 1000 cars burning petrol/diesel/gas on the roads

I know which one i'd prefer. Once we're more reliant on electric than oil for our transport needs, i bet it'll spur on great technological advances in Nuclear Fusion power generation - which is the holy grail as far as electricity generation is concerned.

[s2art]

bitwrx said:

s2art said:

Broken off the Climate change thread.
Well? Any electric car enthusiasts out there?

More efficient hence more energy at the wheels per unit of fossil fuel burned. I think that's the premise. Not sure if it stacks up though.

Or if we have nuclear or renewables, no C02 at all.

Typical numbers given for centralised power production with transmission losses taken into account are approx 30% efficiency.
Then you have to subtract charging efficiency and running efficiency. Lucky to get much over 25% overall.
Of course if our power production was mainly nuclear the objection becomes irrelevant, but then so would the CO2 production of petrol/diesel cars.

[s2art]

ln1234 said:

Which would release more carbon emissions:-

1. A Coal/Nuclear/Gas Electric power stations providing power for 1000 cars
2. 1000 cars burning petrol/diesel/gas on the roads

I know which one i'd prefer. Once we're more reliant on electric than oil for our transport needs, i bet it'll spur on great technological advances in Nuclear Fusion power generation - which is the holy grail as far as electricity generation is concerned.

The fossil fuel plant providing power for cars is probably the least efficient and thus biggest CO2 producer.

[SLacKer]

If you can generate electricity at home from wind and solar into a battery store you could fuel it for free.

I use Mr Fusion for all my energy needs.

I would like to see an affordable electric car that did not make you look like a complete tt (thereby ruling out GWiz). The Nice car company are getting there and the e500 looks good but POA hmmmmm

[ludo]

s2art said:

ludo said:

s2art said:

Broken off the Climate change thread.
Well? Any electric car enthusiasts out there?

I though the main advantage of electric cars was that it would reduce the pollution in large cities, rather than being efficient in terms of CO2? Having said that, if carbon capture is more feasible for power stations that individual cars, there may be a net benefit that overcomes the losses in energy conversion etc.

The main benefit is that the Tesla is a very nice looking car (wouldn't swap it for my Elise though, - too heavy).

AFAICT modern cars clean the air in the big cities.

Groundhog day, I seem to remember reading this one before and finding out it wasn't actually true. It is just that modern cars produce less pollution, the dispersion of pollution being the same, gives lower levels of pollution. I very much doubt that the cars themselves are cleaning the air.

[bitwrx]

s2art said:

bitwrx said:

s2art said:

Broken off the Climate change thread.
Well? Any electric car enthusiasts out there?

More efficient hence more energy at the wheels per unit of fossil fuel burned. I think that's the premise. Not sure if it stacks up though.

Or if we have nuclear or renewables, no C02 at all.

Typical numbers given for centralised power production with transmission losses taken into account are approx 30% efficiency.
Then you have to subtract charging efficiency and running efficiency. Lucky to get much over 25% overall.
Of course if our power production was mainly nuclear the objection becomes irrelevant, but then so would the CO2 production of petrol/diesel cars.

IIRC Diesels are around 25% efficient, petrol about 15. (or it may have been 35 and 25)(or neither). That assumes steady state running though, which rarely happens. So leccy could have an advantage in stop start town traffic, especially as power stations probably burn a little cleaner.

Just guessing though.

[SLacKer]

I rest my case

[anonymous-user]

brum said:

Becuase everyone knows that electricity is generated from fairtrade organic humous

I did not know that! I have some pesto humous in the fridge - will that work?

[turbobloke]

Breaking back into the climate change thread but for a good reason, I'd like to throw in the remark I just posted there, from a correspondent in Local Transport Today who was worried how 'they' would continue the tax and control policies on motorists after cars stopped emitting carbon dioxide.

So rest assured 'they' are already dreaming up a new tax and control strategy or two. There may well be a well publicised new study appearing soon, from the approved research establishment, showing that electromagnetic fields moving past adult pedestrians makes them vote Tory.

[Balmoral Green]

ludo said:

I though the main advantage of electric cars was that it would reduce the pollution in large cities, rather than being efficient in terms of CO2?

Indeed, same for hybrids too. They produce their C02 elsewhere, that's all, keeps the towns clean, nowt wrong with that, it's just the Pious bullst that goes with it that irks.

[Ferg]

I assume that the use of electric cars benefits us from an emissions poit of view because the generating power stations are not economic to shut down during low usage periods so the night-time leccy is almost a by-product and the emissions are being, er, emitted anyway. I think the excess leccy they make at night now they are having to bury in big holes in the ground. It's playing havoc with the moles sense of direction. Oh. I appear to have wandered off the point.

[turbobloke]

Balmoral Green said:

ludo said:

I though the main advantage of electric cars was that it would reduce the pollution in large cities, rather than being efficient in terms of CO2?

Indeed, same for hybrids too. They produce their C02 elsewhere, that's all, keeps the towns clean, nowt wrong with that, it's just the Pious bullst that goes with it that irks.

Taking the principle from both contributions on board - but what exactly is dirty or polluting about conventional petrol engined cars? Certainly not carbon dioxide which is colourless, odourles, and at concentrations ever likely to be reached, harmless.

if noxious gases are to be removed, ban diesel engined buses for a start, in a year the average diseasel bus emits as much NOx as 39 petrol engined cars and as much PM10 particulates as 128 cars. No bus, not even a bendyincendiary, takes 128 cars off the road for a year.

Ban buses, then we'll get cleaner cities, but of course that won;t happen as Presclot likes them so much he built bespoke commie Zil lanes for the damned things.

[Deltaf01]

Dont leave home without it...;)

[pgtips]

Its all to do with flattening the load profile for power. If we have loads of renewable power, plus nucs plus the severn barrage, then we need to increase off peak demand. Charging electric cars is a good way to do this. If linked into rollout of smart meters then it would be possible to time the charging of cars at times of low electric price and lower carbon intensity (you avoid chrging cars when peaking oil units are running).