Snow economics.
Discussion
So the greedy councils/government save money otherwise normally spent on keeping the roads clear (gritsalt, molasses, contractors, fuel etc) and the resulting chaos ends up costing THEM - car park revenue down as people elect not to travel by car as just one example....
Is this a financial gamble?
When the snow clears will we see the gritters out in force ?
Is this a financial gamble?
When the snow clears will we see the gritters out in force ?
GravelBen said:
mat205125 said:
Am I the only one that didn't get my tin foil hat out of the wardrobe today.
SShhhhh! They might be listening!Your attitude is what has brought this country to its knees.....speaking of which, its time you bent over again for another VFM arse raping....
Even if they laid 5mm or so of grit (which is a lot), do you think that could possibly melt 8+ inches of snow?? Grit is normally useless below -6celsius, as that is the temperature salt water (given certain salinity) freezes at.
Ssure in other parts of europe people get on okay. But they fit snow-chains! How many sets of snow-chains were in use yesterday? Half the problem is we rarely get a decent snow-fall so drivers are unsure how to drive in it. On more than one occasion yesterday I had people tail-gating me (in an 1971 land rover), yes it's easy to get up to speed for anyone, however stopping is a completely different challenge.
Ssure in other parts of europe people get on okay. But they fit snow-chains! How many sets of snow-chains were in use yesterday? Half the problem is we rarely get a decent snow-fall so drivers are unsure how to drive in it. On more than one occasion yesterday I had people tail-gating me (in an 1971 land rover), yes it's easy to get up to speed for anyone, however stopping is a completely different challenge.
Mark V8 said:
GravelBen said:
mat205125 said:
Am I the only one that didn't get my tin foil hat out of the wardrobe today.
SShhhhh! They might be listening!Your attitude is what has brought this country to its knees.....speaking of which, its time you bent over again for another VFM arse raping....
where is this ungritted nightmare ?
LOL
Alternatively, I live on planet earth, and appreciate that it would prove impossibly expensive to have a fully loaded grit lorry available to cover every centimeter of tarmac, sat waiting in readiness for when the country receives its once a year (if that) flurry of snow.
Ever seen the Simpsons episode where Homer gets elected in charge of refuse collections? I really hope they don't elect you in charge of gritting preparation.
This country does grind to a halt when we get adverse weather, and is not as well equipped as other countries to respond to snow, however that is to be expected given that it is very rare that we get any significant amounts of snow.
We are not required by law to own or carry chains (what would have helped thousands yesterday)
We are not required to switch to our second set of winter tyres we keep in the garage (that would have helped thousands yesterday)
We do not receive any training on driving in bad weather before we receive our licences.
Given that you are into making the most of the facilities that our taxes pay for, I trust that you were the first out in your street with a shovel making use of the council provided grit bins, and sprinkling grit for the benifit of others? - I was off work yesterday, however still up at normal time. My taxi driver neighbour was just finishing his night shift when I heard him struggling up the street out the back of my house. As soon as we had shoved his car somewhere near the middle of his drive, we were both out covering the hill with grit in plenty of time for the mummys to make their "essential" journeys to the schools around the corner.
Alternatively, I live on planet earth, and appreciate that it would prove impossibly expensive to have a fully loaded grit lorry available to cover every centimeter of tarmac, sat waiting in readiness for when the country receives its once a year (if that) flurry of snow.
Ever seen the Simpsons episode where Homer gets elected in charge of refuse collections? I really hope they don't elect you in charge of gritting preparation.
This country does grind to a halt when we get adverse weather, and is not as well equipped as other countries to respond to snow, however that is to be expected given that it is very rare that we get any significant amounts of snow.
We are not required by law to own or carry chains (what would have helped thousands yesterday)
We are not required to switch to our second set of winter tyres we keep in the garage (that would have helped thousands yesterday)
We do not receive any training on driving in bad weather before we receive our licences.
Given that you are into making the most of the facilities that our taxes pay for, I trust that you were the first out in your street with a shovel making use of the council provided grit bins, and sprinkling grit for the benifit of others? - I was off work yesterday, however still up at normal time. My taxi driver neighbour was just finishing his night shift when I heard him struggling up the street out the back of my house. As soon as we had shoved his car somewhere near the middle of his drive, we were both out covering the hill with grit in plenty of time for the mummys to make their "essential" journeys to the schools around the corner.
wombat172a said:
Even if they laid 5mm or so of grit (which is a lot), do you think that could possibly melt 8+ inches of snow?? Grit is normally useless below -6celsius, as that is the temperature salt water (given certain salinity) freezes at.
Ssure in other parts of europe people get on okay. But they fit snow-chains! How many sets of snow-chains were in use yesterday? Half the problem is we rarely get a decent snow-fall so drivers are unsure how to drive in it. On more than one occasion yesterday I had people tail-gating me (in an 1971 land rover), yes it's easy to get up to speed for anyone, however stopping is a completely different challenge.
So they should abandon the idea of gritting altogether then ? Further revenue could then be generated by the huge cost savings AND the sale of vehicles and equipment....Ssure in other parts of europe people get on okay. But they fit snow-chains! How many sets of snow-chains were in use yesterday? Half the problem is we rarely get a decent snow-fall so drivers are unsure how to drive in it. On more than one occasion yesterday I had people tail-gating me (in an 1971 land rover), yes it's easy to get up to speed for anyone, however stopping is a completely different challenge.
Mark V8 said:
wombat172a said:
Even if they laid 5mm or so of grit (which is a lot), do you think that could possibly melt 8+ inches of snow?? Grit is normally useless below -6celsius, as that is the temperature salt water (given certain salinity) freezes at.
Ssure in other parts of europe people get on okay. But they fit snow-chains! How many sets of snow-chains were in use yesterday? Half the problem is we rarely get a decent snow-fall so drivers are unsure how to drive in it. On more than one occasion yesterday I had people tail-gating me (in an 1971 land rover), yes it's easy to get up to speed for anyone, however stopping is a completely different challenge.
So they should abandon the idea of gritting altogether then ? Further revenue could then be generated by the huge cost savings AND the sale of vehicles and equipment....Ssure in other parts of europe people get on okay. But they fit snow-chains! How many sets of snow-chains were in use yesterday? Half the problem is we rarely get a decent snow-fall so drivers are unsure how to drive in it. On more than one occasion yesterday I had people tail-gating me (in an 1971 land rover), yes it's easy to get up to speed for anyone, however stopping is a completely different challenge.
Tell ya what, I'll feed you for fun....
What is a disgrace is that the pavements aren't gritted, so that people who do take the travel advice and leave their cars at home end up falling over. (I heard that the majority of people in A&E yesterday was due to slips on ice)
As it was well forecast, and councils may have known that they would be unable to cope with it, the military could have been used to ensure routes are clear in known "blackspots" and transport depots.
5 months from now the watercompanies will be complaining of a lack of water in reservoirs/aquafiers, calling it a drought, and putting prices up.
The A359 past the end of my lane was gritted at around 3pm yesterday (East Somerset). By 7pm the falling snow had overcome the grit and by 8pm there was an artic - ironically a recovery wagon - stuck on the hill.
I noted this as I made my essential journey to and from the gym...
Grit will prevent icing under most of the conditions we can expect in a UK winter, most of the time. It won't cope with heavy snow here - or anywhere else, for that matter - however: that has to be physically cleared from the roads.
I think the Highways Agency will deploy ploughs onto trunk routes, but local authorities by-and-large do not have them. If we don't see a case for investing in winter tyres/wheels and snow chains, how can we expect the council to see a case for investing in snow-clearing machinery?
I noted this as I made my essential journey to and from the gym...
Grit will prevent icing under most of the conditions we can expect in a UK winter, most of the time. It won't cope with heavy snow here - or anywhere else, for that matter - however: that has to be physically cleared from the roads.
I think the Highways Agency will deploy ploughs onto trunk routes, but local authorities by-and-large do not have them. If we don't see a case for investing in winter tyres/wheels and snow chains, how can we expect the council to see a case for investing in snow-clearing machinery?
Edited by Nick_F on Tuesday 3rd February 13:38
esselte said:
mat205125 said:
This country does grind to a halt when we get adverse weather, and is not as well equipped as other countries to respond to snow, however that is to be expected given that it is very rare that we get any significant amounts of snow.
Seems to happen every year Mat....mat205125 said:
esselte said:
mat205125 said:
This country does grind to a halt when we get adverse weather, and is not as well equipped as other countries to respond to snow, however that is to be expected given that it is very rare that we get any significant amounts of snow.
Seems to happen every year Mat....wombat172a said:
Even if they laid 5mm or so of grit (which is a lot), do you think that could possibly melt 8+ inches of snow?? Grit is normally useless below -6celsius, as that is the temperature salt water (given certain salinity) freezes at.
Ssure in other parts of europe people get on okay. But they fit snow-chains! How many sets of snow-chains were in use yesterday? Half the problem is we rarely get a decent snow-fall so drivers are unsure how to drive in it. On more than one occasion yesterday I had people tail-gating me (in an 1971 land rover), yes it's easy to get up to speed for anyone, however stopping is a completely different challenge.
we had at least 6 or 7" of snow here in düsseldorf the other week, temperatures down to -14Ssure in other parts of europe people get on okay. But they fit snow-chains! How many sets of snow-chains were in use yesterday? Half the problem is we rarely get a decent snow-fall so drivers are unsure how to drive in it. On more than one occasion yesterday I had people tail-gating me (in an 1971 land rover), yes it's easy to get up to speed for anyone, however stopping is a completely different challenge.
main routes were mostly clear the very same morning, no one has snow chains, just winter/all-weather tyres
funk odyssey said:
Mark V8 said:
GravelBen said:
mat205125 said:
Am I the only one that didn't get my tin foil hat out of the wardrobe today.
SShhhhh! They might be listening!Your attitude is what has brought this country to its knees.....speaking of which, its time you bent over again for another VFM arse raping....
where is this ungritted nightmare ?
Wimborne, Dorset.
hugoagogo said:
main routes were mostly clear the very same morning, no one has snow chains, just winter/all-weather tyres
IIRC you are required to fit winter tyres in certain months of the year aren't you.You think the paranoid ranting of the OP was bad chatting about grit. Imagine what money making conspiracies he would have been suggesting if we were instructed by the government to fit our winter tyres in readiness for our potential sprinkling of snow that may or may not happen.
Mark V8 said:
funk odyssey said:
Mark V8 said:
GravelBen said:
mat205125 said:
Am I the only one that didn't get my tin foil hat out of the wardrobe today.
SShhhhh! They might be listening!Your attitude is what has brought this country to its knees.....speaking of which, its time you bent over again for another VFM arse raping....
where is this ungritted nightmare ?
Wimborne, Dorset.
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