RE: 2024 Aston Martin Vantage | PH Review
Discussion
mrclav said:
xcept the Battista (which of course has no engine, being a BEV) they're all mid-engined. I notice that the AMG GT also has a large grill which implies that it needs a LOT of airflow cooling that hot V for it to work at its best. This is why I sad comparing a front engined car using that specific engine to mid-engined cars makes no sense.
If you look at most powerful front engine cars they all have very large front air openings, how visible they are at a glance depends on the design language and AM's design is to have a very visible front grille. Wills2 said:
mrclav said:
xcept the Battista (which of course has no engine, being a BEV) they're all mid-engined. I notice that the AMG GT also has a large grill which implies that it needs a LOT of airflow cooling that hot V for it to work at its best. This is why I sad comparing a front engined car using that specific engine to mid-engined cars makes no sense.
If you look at most powerful front engine cars they all have very large front air openings, how visible they are at a glance depends on the design language and AM's design is to have a very visible front grille. mrclav said:
omeone else posted the Ferrari Roma, which has a different air intake opening at the front and is smaller than this Aston. However, I suspect the airflow requirements for the Roma are different due to its engine being a different design to the the AMG V8.
Sure but when they designed that car they clearly wanted to hide that and not make a feature of it, AM clearly want to make it a feature I think it looks good myself (either way actually) Wills2 said:
Sure but when they designed that car they clearly wanted to hide that and not make a feature of it, AM clearly want to make it a feature I think it looks good myself (either way actually)
I like the way it looks too but I'm not sure AM wanted to make the grill a feature more than they actually had to have a large grill - I don't really think they had a choice due to the engines 'hot V' configuration.The M178 used in the Vantage is a variant of what was used in the original AMG GT, which also had a large grill to help with cool air intake and 'heat exhaust' holes/slats in the bonnet to help expel waste heat - these issues were compounded with the higher performing Black Series (which included a larger front grill, a direct air intake and extra slats in the bonnet from cooling) as seen here:-
Because this version of the engine used in the new Vantage has some 30 percent more power than the previous iteration and includes bigger turbos, I think it's safe to guess there are more heat issues to be dealt with.
As this PH article explains here, there are advantages to having a hot V configuration but one downside is the need for more air cooling and management of hot air exhausting. In contrast, the F154 BH engine used in the Roma sits its turbos outside of the "V" so heat management requirements regarding air induction and expulsion aren't going to be as much of an issue as the M178 hence it having a smaller grill.
Ironically, Ferrari were actually the first to use the 'turbo between the v of an engine' setup (although that was a V12 engine) in the Ferrari 126C F1 car back in '81.
Wills2 said:
mrclav said:
omeone else posted the Ferrari Roma, which has a different air intake opening at the front and is smaller than this Aston. However, I suspect the airflow requirements for the Roma are different due to its engine being a different design to the the AMG V8.
Sure but when they designed that car they clearly wanted to hide that and not make a feature of it, AM clearly want to make it a feature I think it looks good myself (either way actually) The car in the Aston is a customer AMG engine that is found in a dozen Merc saloons and GTs.
Nish Gnackers said:
Nik Gnashers may have driven himself down a blind alley with his list of examples.. but ...
The Ferrari Roma is directly comparable in terms of engine design, location, and output and manages with a much smaller and less obvious air intake grille.
Yes, both are V8s, both are c.4-litre, both are twin turbo, both are GDI (alas).The Ferrari Roma is directly comparable in terms of engine design, location, and output and manages with a much smaller and less obvious air intake grille.
But they are not “comparable in terms of engine design”.
Aston’s AMG-derived V8 is a hot-V – the turbos sit inside the cylinder banks’ V. This layout reduces turbo lag / increases throttle response.
AMG hot-V V8 - note location of turbos
The Roma’s V8 is not a hot-V, see pic below, note location of turbos:
Because a hot-V’s turbos sit in close proximity they get red hot, literally, even at moderate pace. So, they need extra airflow for cooling – and high power outputs. Hence the need for a large grille.
Edited by NGK210 on Friday 17th May 07:36
NGK210 said:
Nish Gnackers said:
Nik Gnashers may have driven himself down a blind alley with his list of examples.. but ...
The Ferrari Roma is directly comparable in terms of engine design, location, and output and manages with a much smaller and less obvious air intake grille.
Yes, both are V8s, both are c.4-litre, both are twin turbo, both are GDI (alas).The Ferrari Roma is directly comparable in terms of engine design, location, and output and manages with a much smaller and less obvious air intake grille.
But they are not “comparable in terms of engine design”.
Aston’s AMG-derived V8 is a hot-V – the turbos sit inside the cylinder banks’ V. This layout reduces turbo lag / increases throttle response.
AMG hot-V V8 - note locale of turbos
The Roma’s V8 is not a hot-V, see pic below, note locale of turbos:
Because a hot-V’s turbos sit in close proximity they get red hot, literally, even at moderate pace. So, they need extra airflow for cooling – and high power outputs. Hence the need for a large grille.
mrclav said:
don't know exactly how one of these AMG lumps could work in a mid-engined configuration without a huge amount of effort made to get cool air into it!
Lotus seem to have struggled a great deal with getting the 4-cyl 2.0 AMG unit to stay cool enough in the Emira. I suspect Aston's engineers are having a devil of a time of making the cooling work in the upcoming Valhalla, which I presume will use the same/similar engine as the Vantage only with the hybrid gubbins to boost total output?NGK210 said:
Fair point. But I bet if any of the above grey or silver classics were painted lurid orange with black wheels and trim, they too would look ostentatious?
And let’s not forget, arguably it was Aston that triggered the vogue for loud exhausts with the first Vanquish? In comparison, the rival Ferrari 575M sounded like a flatulent puppy
The colour certainly doesn't help it's case! I can't comment on ostentatiousness really, I drive a bright red TVR with a straight through exhaust! A loud exhaust can sound good, but I don't like augmented sound, or the mapped in pops and farts on gearchange. But the idea of a V600 in bright orange definitely sounds wrong, like painting a stately home bright pink!And let’s not forget, arguably it was Aston that triggered the vogue for loud exhausts with the first Vanquish? In comparison, the rival Ferrari 575M sounded like a flatulent puppy
I think that in any colour except black the detailing is fussy and stands out too much. The basic shape is pretty, just the added tat that spoils it for me.
Edited by R400TVR on Thursday 16th May 23:29
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