Engine oil, 0w 40 better than 5w 30 ? part or full synthetic
Discussion
supersingle said:
The manufacturer service intervals are too long IMO.
They are designed to be that long from day 0 and have the associated oil capacity to match.DI engines (petrol and diesel) are more susceptible to getting fuel in the oil which has quite an effect. This does get burnt off (depends on the fuel spec) when the oil gets hot, but not all of it does. This does degenerate the oil faster but is taken into account in durability testing. Hence the large capacity sumps on a lot of these cars.
zeppelin101 said:
supersingle said:
The manufacturer service intervals are too long IMO.
They are designed to be that long from day 0 and have the associated oil capacity to match.DI engines (petrol and diesel) are more susceptible to getting fuel in the oil which has quite an effect. This does get burnt off (depends on the fuel spec) when the oil gets hot, but not all of it does. This does degenerate the oil faster but is taken into account in durability testing. Hence the large capacity sumps on a lot of these cars.
Even fully synthetic oils deteriorate over 18k miles. They get dilluted by diesel which doesn't evaporate away unlike petrol. They become acidic which eats through gaskets leading to oil leaks. DPF friendly oils have lower levels of additives so don't protect for as long as synthetic oils of the past.
I'm sure 18k oil intervals is fine for most but as my van ages I'm doing it more frequently. Mind you, from the noise the gearbox is making it might not be the engine that reduces the vehicle to scrap!
supersingle said:
As long as the engines achieve their warranty then manufacturers are happy.
Just a PH myth. Modern engines don't often suffer significant wear until you get to inter-galactic mileage.supersingle said:
I'm sure 18k oil intervals is fine for most but as my van ages I'm doing it more frequently. Mind you, from the noise the gearbox is making it might not be the engine that reduces the vehicle to scrap!
Yes, right on both of those IMO! Always strikes me as odd the way folk tend to stretch oil intervals and use cheaper oil as mileage increases. As you've rightly spotted, an older engine still needs good quality oil and the oil is likely to get contaminated more quickly due to wear of rings, bores etc. It's usually something else which lands a vehicle in the scrap yard - like your gearbox! 
I'm not a expert (far from it 
) but having researched oils for our racing, done some testing and had help from Silkolene's chemists at the time (we helped test some of their electrosyntec stuff back in the early 2000's which was a 0W-50), there is something that people are missing here and failing to consider.
With regard to degradation, as has been correctly stated by other posters - the oil degrades (to a greater or lesser extet) from dilution from fuel, water vapour, suspension of solids, a breakdown in the efficiency of the cleaning detergents - and one more very important thing.
Multigrade oils get their ability to change grade (i.e. to go from a 0 to a 40, from cold to hot) from something called polymer chains. These are what they sound like - tiny atomic molecule chains. When they're cold, they are coiled, and can flow freely through the engine's oilways - hence the oil's viscosity is thin to help cold starts as we know.
As they heat up, the chains uncoil and become long - which gives the oil it's hot viscosity, to help the hot engine become fully protected.
Over time, they suffer sheraing forces from high-load areas. On a motorbike engine which incorporates the gearbox, they get absolutely mashed to bits quite quickly by the shearing force between the gears of the gearbox. Hence why it is important (among other reasons) to change the oil frequently on bikes.
In cars, ok, there are fewer high-load surfaces, but even so, you will still get oil damage at camshaft lobe faces, in the oil pump's gears, places like that.
Once they become damaged, the oil loses it's multigrade ability. Hence, instead of an 0w-40, you start to develop an oil that basically hangs around as a 20 grade all the time. So, it loses it's free-flowing ability on cold start-ups, and it's thicker protection on a hot engine.
So, in addition to the other reasons, this is also a big reason to NOT let the oil change intervals slide. I concede that modern oils are pretty Gucci now, and can withstand abuse that 10 years ago they would not have done - but it you're in any way concerned about your engine (especially important on turbo and multivalve, high-revving units) then please keep the oil fresh. It's the cheapest insurance for your unit that money can buy.
And as a PS - I know it often doesn't spec it in the handbook - but for the sake of less than a tenner, I am not a fan of doing an oil service and leaving the old filter on there either....but it's your call obviously
I hope this helps guys and gals!
) but having researched oils for our racing, done some testing and had help from Silkolene's chemists at the time (we helped test some of their electrosyntec stuff back in the early 2000's which was a 0W-50), there is something that people are missing here and failing to consider.With regard to degradation, as has been correctly stated by other posters - the oil degrades (to a greater or lesser extet) from dilution from fuel, water vapour, suspension of solids, a breakdown in the efficiency of the cleaning detergents - and one more very important thing.
Multigrade oils get their ability to change grade (i.e. to go from a 0 to a 40, from cold to hot) from something called polymer chains. These are what they sound like - tiny atomic molecule chains. When they're cold, they are coiled, and can flow freely through the engine's oilways - hence the oil's viscosity is thin to help cold starts as we know.
As they heat up, the chains uncoil and become long - which gives the oil it's hot viscosity, to help the hot engine become fully protected.
Over time, they suffer sheraing forces from high-load areas. On a motorbike engine which incorporates the gearbox, they get absolutely mashed to bits quite quickly by the shearing force between the gears of the gearbox. Hence why it is important (among other reasons) to change the oil frequently on bikes.
In cars, ok, there are fewer high-load surfaces, but even so, you will still get oil damage at camshaft lobe faces, in the oil pump's gears, places like that.
Once they become damaged, the oil loses it's multigrade ability. Hence, instead of an 0w-40, you start to develop an oil that basically hangs around as a 20 grade all the time. So, it loses it's free-flowing ability on cold start-ups, and it's thicker protection on a hot engine.
So, in addition to the other reasons, this is also a big reason to NOT let the oil change intervals slide. I concede that modern oils are pretty Gucci now, and can withstand abuse that 10 years ago they would not have done - but it you're in any way concerned about your engine (especially important on turbo and multivalve, high-revving units) then please keep the oil fresh. It's the cheapest insurance for your unit that money can buy.
And as a PS - I know it often doesn't spec it in the handbook - but for the sake of less than a tenner, I am not a fan of doing an oil service and leaving the old filter on there either....but it's your call obviously
I hope this helps guys and gals!
A little information about oils for you to get your heads round.
Background
There are four engine oil additive companies in the world; Afton, Infineum, Lubrizol and Oronite. They supply around 90 % of the additives used in engine oil in the entire world and 100 %of the additive packages used in oils with official claims. The other oils simply carry a manufacturing quality claim, in other words state that the oil is made to correct manufacturing specification, but does not have any tested performance in an engine.
The four additive companies not only supply individual additives, but design and test oils containing specific packages to meet engine oil claims. These additive packages and specific oil mixes are then sold to oil marketers where it is sold under commonly [and less commonly] known oil brands.
To state this more explicitly, the additive companies are responsible for taking an oil brief to a final oil that may be sold under a brand name, sometimes the larger oil marketers run their own programs internally, however the additive companies must still manufacture and supply the additives in order for this to happen.
I work for one of the four additive companies, and am writing this purely to provide factually accurate and unbiased information on engine oils; due to the number of oil marketers we supply, it is impossible to try to push or sell a single product through this article.
Oil technology
There are different grades of base stock that are used in an engine oil, they can be broken down as follows;
Group 1; oil sourced from crude oil with fairly low processing, high in sulfur and aromatic content. Viscosity changes greatly with temperature
Group 2; as group 1 with slightly more refining, resulting in less sulfur and less aromatic content.
Group 3. Highly processed crude oil, resulting in less temperature change in viscosity with temperature and low sulfur.
Group 4. Oil assembled synthetically, resulting in very controlled structure giving very low sulfur, very good viscosity control and low aromatic content
Group 5; everything else, typically very expensive and with specialist applications.
Small changes in viscosity with temperature means that the performance of the oil becomes very predictable at a range of temperatures, allowing it to maintain good lubrication and protection of engine parts.
Sulfur may form acidic species in the oil, which in turn reacts with and corrodes metal parts in the engine.
Aromatic content may be chemically attacked leading to viscosity growth of the oil and poor lubrication during the life of the oil, they could also lead to low temperature pumpability problems by forming gel structures, causing oil starvation.
There is disagreement as to whether group 3 oils are synthetic, they have a great degree of processing applied to them in comparison to group 1 and 2, in turn producing a much more controlled and higher performing base stock, however are sourced from crude oil and therefore not truly synthetic. Some countries allow the oil to be labeled as synthetic, others semi-synthetic, some not at all. As you will find out, it doesn’t make much of a difference.
Additive technology.
The base stock alone cannot adequately protect an engine, this can be seen in this report here: http://www.ilma.org/...qualityoils.pdf which compares an API SA oil [minimal performance claims, just base stock] with SL [a much later claims set requiring more in the oil than just base stock]
In order to add performance to the oil, the following chemicals are added:
Detergents
Added to remove varnish and deposits produced during the combustion process, most deposits and lacquer form in the cylinder and on the piston, at the hottest points as it’s typically formed from partially combusted fuel and engine oil.
Detergents also neutralise acids produced in the engine by the combustion process [fuels contain nitrogen and sulfur which form nitric and sulfuric acid in the engine], which prevents acidic corrosion of parts in the engine.
Anti-wear agents
Anti-wear agents decompose and form ‘sacrificial surfaces’ between rubbing contacts to protect the metal from wear. This is typically through the use of ZnDDP or ZDDP, the first commercial additive which demonstrated a clear benefit in the engine, and in use for around 80 years.
Dispersants
Incompletely combusted fuel, and insoluble particles will agglomerate and form highly structured networks in oil which causes viscosity to increase. Dispersants suspend these species in the oil and separate them, preventing viscosity increase.
Anti-oxidants
High temperature causes chemicals to split and turn into reactive species, metal in the engine acts as catalysts and increases the rate this happens. The reactive species attack anything available; oil, fuel and additives which causes degradation of the oil and viscosity increase. Anti-oxidants trap these attacking species to protect the oil
Viscosity modifiers
While high quality base stocks maintain some viscosity control with increasing temperature, it’s not sufficient to avoid very viscous oil at cold and very thin oil at high temperature. This leads to oil starvation and inadequate protection of the surfaces respectively. Viscosity modifiers collapse at low temperature but unfurl at high temperature, interacting with the base stock and creating an ordered structure in the oil, which increases viscosity. This allows an oil to be used all year around and provide engine protection over a wide range of temperatures
Pour point depressors
Poor quality base stocks or used oils form large gel structures at low temperature, when the engine is started the pump sucks up oil from the sump, if there are gel structures the oil will not flow and will cause oil starvation, pour point depressors break up the gel structures to ensure the oil flows.
Friction modifiers
Designed to reduce the energy losses created between rubbing metal surfaces, they are used more in America and Japan as the energy, and thus fuel saving is minor and therefore driven by legislation rather than a consumer saving.
Anti-foam
Prevents foaming in oil filters which can cause oil blockages.
Why less is more
The problem with all these additives is they interact when they are combined, each group of additives have a wide range of chemicals that act at different temperatures, under different pressures or work on different part of chemical cycles. There are countless implications to consider when combining the additives, some examples:
More ZDDP should mean better anti-wear, however high ZDDP introduces more phosphorus, which can be burnt off and enter the catalytic converter, phosphorus poisons catalytic converters by blocking binding sites, resulting in a very expensive service by MOT time.
More dispersant means better viscosity control, but reacts with seals causing swelling, cracking and energy loss. Eventually this leads to an engine rebuild to replace all the failed parts.
More detergent means better deposit control, but the detergent is surface active and competes on metal surfaces with ZDDP, too much detergent and wear protection gets compromised.
What to look out for
All the attributes such as wear protection, viscosity control and deposit control are tested for, and indicated by the specification on the back of an oil. Oil sold in Europe will carry ACEA specification; the concept being with ACEA specification is a minimum standard for all oil, where any additional claims by engine manufacturers are added on top to boost performance. The ACEA claims are broken down as follows;
A/B mean suitable for petrol and diesel engines, C is suitable for engines with after treatment devices [such as diesel particulate filters and 3 way catalytic converters]. There is a number that follows the letter, where:
A1/B1 = good fuel economy with average engine performance
A3/B3 = normal fuel economy with average engine performance
A3/B4 = normal fuel economy with good engine performance
A5/B5 = good fuel economy with good engine performance
The date provided with the ACEA recommendations made for your car will be related to the date of manufacture, if you go for a newer year [eg. You are recommended ACEA ’04 and go for ACEA’10], you will have a better quality oil as the requirements improve each year.
A1/B1 and A5/B5 have reduced detergent inorder to allow for additional engine compatability, avoid them if your manual recommends A3/B3 or A3/B4. Always go for A3/B4 or A5/B5 compared to A3/B3 or A1/B1 respectively if given the choice, they offer tighter cam, tappet and piston wear limits than the former.
Proof
The oils with ACEA claims have undergone multiple engine tests designed to test the extreme point of operation of the engine, the current ACEA specification use the following tests:
TU5 high temperature deposit, ring sticking and oil thickening test [72 hour test]
Sequence VG low temperature sludge test[216 hour test]
TU3 Valve train wear test [100 hour test]
M271 sludge test
M111 fuel economy test
DV4 dispersancy test
OM646LA cam and tappet wear test [268hours]
VW TDI diesel piston cleanliness test [58hours]
Engine manufacturers have additional tests, some use bench tests to look at turbo charger deposits, others have much more stringent wear tests; the VW 504/507 specification requires a 650 hour weartest.
All these tests operate on the edge of what is considered normal operation, and typically much harsher than normal conditions. Any oil carrying the correct ACEA claims will be able to provide more than adequate protection for an engine, for additional protection I would recommend looking for an oil with a larger claim set, specifically one with VW claims as they typically have harsher limits.
There is no need to look for specialist engine oil; if it doesn’t have ACEA claims there’s no protection or proof that it is capable of protecting your engine. They are strict tests, and with a typical cost of around £70,000 a test, really do show confidence in the product.
Background
There are four engine oil additive companies in the world; Afton, Infineum, Lubrizol and Oronite. They supply around 90 % of the additives used in engine oil in the entire world and 100 %of the additive packages used in oils with official claims. The other oils simply carry a manufacturing quality claim, in other words state that the oil is made to correct manufacturing specification, but does not have any tested performance in an engine.
The four additive companies not only supply individual additives, but design and test oils containing specific packages to meet engine oil claims. These additive packages and specific oil mixes are then sold to oil marketers where it is sold under commonly [and less commonly] known oil brands.
To state this more explicitly, the additive companies are responsible for taking an oil brief to a final oil that may be sold under a brand name, sometimes the larger oil marketers run their own programs internally, however the additive companies must still manufacture and supply the additives in order for this to happen.
I work for one of the four additive companies, and am writing this purely to provide factually accurate and unbiased information on engine oils; due to the number of oil marketers we supply, it is impossible to try to push or sell a single product through this article.
Oil technology
There are different grades of base stock that are used in an engine oil, they can be broken down as follows;
Group 1; oil sourced from crude oil with fairly low processing, high in sulfur and aromatic content. Viscosity changes greatly with temperature
Group 2; as group 1 with slightly more refining, resulting in less sulfur and less aromatic content.
Group 3. Highly processed crude oil, resulting in less temperature change in viscosity with temperature and low sulfur.
Group 4. Oil assembled synthetically, resulting in very controlled structure giving very low sulfur, very good viscosity control and low aromatic content
Group 5; everything else, typically very expensive and with specialist applications.
Small changes in viscosity with temperature means that the performance of the oil becomes very predictable at a range of temperatures, allowing it to maintain good lubrication and protection of engine parts.
Sulfur may form acidic species in the oil, which in turn reacts with and corrodes metal parts in the engine.
Aromatic content may be chemically attacked leading to viscosity growth of the oil and poor lubrication during the life of the oil, they could also lead to low temperature pumpability problems by forming gel structures, causing oil starvation.
There is disagreement as to whether group 3 oils are synthetic, they have a great degree of processing applied to them in comparison to group 1 and 2, in turn producing a much more controlled and higher performing base stock, however are sourced from crude oil and therefore not truly synthetic. Some countries allow the oil to be labeled as synthetic, others semi-synthetic, some not at all. As you will find out, it doesn’t make much of a difference.
Additive technology.
The base stock alone cannot adequately protect an engine, this can be seen in this report here: http://www.ilma.org/...qualityoils.pdf which compares an API SA oil [minimal performance claims, just base stock] with SL [a much later claims set requiring more in the oil than just base stock]
In order to add performance to the oil, the following chemicals are added:
Detergents
Added to remove varnish and deposits produced during the combustion process, most deposits and lacquer form in the cylinder and on the piston, at the hottest points as it’s typically formed from partially combusted fuel and engine oil.
Detergents also neutralise acids produced in the engine by the combustion process [fuels contain nitrogen and sulfur which form nitric and sulfuric acid in the engine], which prevents acidic corrosion of parts in the engine.
Anti-wear agents
Anti-wear agents decompose and form ‘sacrificial surfaces’ between rubbing contacts to protect the metal from wear. This is typically through the use of ZnDDP or ZDDP, the first commercial additive which demonstrated a clear benefit in the engine, and in use for around 80 years.
Dispersants
Incompletely combusted fuel, and insoluble particles will agglomerate and form highly structured networks in oil which causes viscosity to increase. Dispersants suspend these species in the oil and separate them, preventing viscosity increase.
Anti-oxidants
High temperature causes chemicals to split and turn into reactive species, metal in the engine acts as catalysts and increases the rate this happens. The reactive species attack anything available; oil, fuel and additives which causes degradation of the oil and viscosity increase. Anti-oxidants trap these attacking species to protect the oil
Viscosity modifiers
While high quality base stocks maintain some viscosity control with increasing temperature, it’s not sufficient to avoid very viscous oil at cold and very thin oil at high temperature. This leads to oil starvation and inadequate protection of the surfaces respectively. Viscosity modifiers collapse at low temperature but unfurl at high temperature, interacting with the base stock and creating an ordered structure in the oil, which increases viscosity. This allows an oil to be used all year around and provide engine protection over a wide range of temperatures
Pour point depressors
Poor quality base stocks or used oils form large gel structures at low temperature, when the engine is started the pump sucks up oil from the sump, if there are gel structures the oil will not flow and will cause oil starvation, pour point depressors break up the gel structures to ensure the oil flows.
Friction modifiers
Designed to reduce the energy losses created between rubbing metal surfaces, they are used more in America and Japan as the energy, and thus fuel saving is minor and therefore driven by legislation rather than a consumer saving.
Anti-foam
Prevents foaming in oil filters which can cause oil blockages.
Why less is more
The problem with all these additives is they interact when they are combined, each group of additives have a wide range of chemicals that act at different temperatures, under different pressures or work on different part of chemical cycles. There are countless implications to consider when combining the additives, some examples:
More ZDDP should mean better anti-wear, however high ZDDP introduces more phosphorus, which can be burnt off and enter the catalytic converter, phosphorus poisons catalytic converters by blocking binding sites, resulting in a very expensive service by MOT time.
More dispersant means better viscosity control, but reacts with seals causing swelling, cracking and energy loss. Eventually this leads to an engine rebuild to replace all the failed parts.
More detergent means better deposit control, but the detergent is surface active and competes on metal surfaces with ZDDP, too much detergent and wear protection gets compromised.
What to look out for
All the attributes such as wear protection, viscosity control and deposit control are tested for, and indicated by the specification on the back of an oil. Oil sold in Europe will carry ACEA specification; the concept being with ACEA specification is a minimum standard for all oil, where any additional claims by engine manufacturers are added on top to boost performance. The ACEA claims are broken down as follows;
A/B mean suitable for petrol and diesel engines, C is suitable for engines with after treatment devices [such as diesel particulate filters and 3 way catalytic converters]. There is a number that follows the letter, where:
A1/B1 = good fuel economy with average engine performance
A3/B3 = normal fuel economy with average engine performance
A3/B4 = normal fuel economy with good engine performance
A5/B5 = good fuel economy with good engine performance
The date provided with the ACEA recommendations made for your car will be related to the date of manufacture, if you go for a newer year [eg. You are recommended ACEA ’04 and go for ACEA’10], you will have a better quality oil as the requirements improve each year.
A1/B1 and A5/B5 have reduced detergent inorder to allow for additional engine compatability, avoid them if your manual recommends A3/B3 or A3/B4. Always go for A3/B4 or A5/B5 compared to A3/B3 or A1/B1 respectively if given the choice, they offer tighter cam, tappet and piston wear limits than the former.
Proof
The oils with ACEA claims have undergone multiple engine tests designed to test the extreme point of operation of the engine, the current ACEA specification use the following tests:
TU5 high temperature deposit, ring sticking and oil thickening test [72 hour test]
Sequence VG low temperature sludge test[216 hour test]
TU3 Valve train wear test [100 hour test]
M271 sludge test
M111 fuel economy test
DV4 dispersancy test
OM646LA cam and tappet wear test [268hours]
VW TDI diesel piston cleanliness test [58hours]
Engine manufacturers have additional tests, some use bench tests to look at turbo charger deposits, others have much more stringent wear tests; the VW 504/507 specification requires a 650 hour weartest.
All these tests operate on the edge of what is considered normal operation, and typically much harsher than normal conditions. Any oil carrying the correct ACEA claims will be able to provide more than adequate protection for an engine, for additional protection I would recommend looking for an oil with a larger claim set, specifically one with VW claims as they typically have harsher limits.
There is no need to look for specialist engine oil; if it doesn’t have ACEA claims there’s no protection or proof that it is capable of protecting your engine. They are strict tests, and with a typical cost of around £70,000 a test, really do show confidence in the product.
Edited by Zoobeef on Monday 9th December 19:27
The above was written by a friend as info for the vx220 forum.
With regards to 5-30, 0-40 and which being better. Id be finding out if the manufacturer reccomends a 30 or a 40 oil then use the above information to choose which type of oil you want.
When asked what he would use then his normal response is Fuchs titan supersyn or shell helix ultra.
With regards to 5-30, 0-40 and which being better. Id be finding out if the manufacturer reccomends a 30 or a 40 oil then use the above information to choose which type of oil you want.
When asked what he would use then his normal response is Fuchs titan supersyn or shell helix ultra.
radiodanno said:
Here's what I'd do if it was my vehicle. And I think we approach these things the same way.
Get a nice 5w30. Then next time Halfords have a sale buy up. They sell proper GM spec 5w30 for £10 for 4 litres when they do their sale. Utter bargain. Buy 5 and breathe easy .
I wouldnt reccomend using an oil thats over 12 months old (yes I know its millions of years old haha, very funny). The additives and protection start breaking down.Get a nice 5w30. Then next time Halfords have a sale buy up. They sell proper GM spec 5w30 for £10 for 4 litres when they do their sale. Utter bargain. Buy 5 and breathe easy .
Zoobeef said:
I wouldnt recommend using an oil thats over 12 months old (yes I know its millions of years old haha, very funny). The additives and protection start breaking down.
Evidence??????????Doesn't make any sense to me as many manufacturers are happy to leave the oil IN the engine for 2 years.
Zoobeef said:
I wouldnt reccomend using an oil thats over 12 months old (yes I know its millions of years old haha, very funny). The additives and protection start breaking down.
In a sealed container? When it's often in an engine for longer, being both used and exposed to the atmosphere?I fear not.
Are you getting confused with hygroscopic brake fluid?
This was his response when someone asked about some oil they had gotten from halfords that was dated 2009.
The additives are mainly suspensions and will destabilise with time. Oil stability is only measured over 12 weeks in the industry, however commercial oils are expected to be stable for 12 months. I would take the stuff from Halfords back and get a refund.
This is one of the main reasons I use Opie oils, they sell enough for the stock to be new.
The additives are mainly suspensions and will destabilise with time. Oil stability is only measured over 12 weeks in the industry, however commercial oils are expected to be stable for 12 months. I would take the stuff from Halfords back and get a refund.
This is one of the main reasons I use Opie oils, they sell enough for the stock to be new.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Zoobeef said:
I wouldnt recommend using an oil thats over 12 months old (yes I know its millions of years old haha, very funny). The additives and protection start breaking down.
Evidence??????????Doesn't make any sense to me as many manufacturers are happy to leave the oil IN the engine for 2 years.
Zoobeef said:
I wouldnt reccomend using an oil thats over 12 months old (yes I know its millions of years old haha, very funny). The additives and protection start breaking down.
I don't believe that for a minute. Most places that sell oil have had the same oil bottles on the shelf for at least 12 months. Plus the time it was at the warehouse. Plus the time it was at the manufacturers. Plus the time it's in your car. FFS if what you're saying is to be believed almost all cars out there have useless oil in them 
Ozzie Osmond said:
What you haven't explained is why "dirty" is "bad". One thing is sure, you can't judge the true condition of motor oil by looking at it. I'd rather have the real thing in there and looking a bit grubby than some pristine economy lubricant.
Dirty oil is dirty oil No matter how good it was when it was put in !!!a diesel produces carbon and soot which the detergent holds in suspension it can only hold so much before it starts to thicken and stick to the inside of the engine The oil feed to the turbo isn't that big so it dosen't take much to clog it and screw its bearings, some of this filth
gets pushed out of the breather and ends up going through the turbo and into the inlet manifold mixing with the exhaust possibley making the egr stick and clogging the manifold. Leaving it in too long will compound the problem as there is some sludge left after it's drained which contaminates the new oil ,
The manufacturer s recommended intervals are the bare minimum assuming perfect running and operating conditions
If you want reliability and best fuel economy
Change diesel oil between 5 and 10 k I do mine at 5 k oil then oil and filter at 10k engine is clean inside and good mpg ...
I've worked for Ford and Lexus, and completely ignore the service intervals if they say more than 5k........there's no way I'm going to run a turbocharged vehicle of any description for 15k miles on the same oil, especially when it's my Mitsubishi Evo or Ford Connect, which gets it's brains kicked out on a daily basis. The van gets Ford recommended fully synth Castrol and filter every 5k, and I'm happy to pay for it. It's the life blood of the engine, if it's something you intend to keep for a long time, and helps you earn your living, it's nuts to potentially compromise it's reliability for the sake of saving a few quid in the short term.
I just don't understand the mentality of anyone who refutes this. You can only assume they have money put aside for replacement turbos and engines which potentially will let go earlier than necessary.
I just don't understand the mentality of anyone who refutes this. You can only assume they have money put aside for replacement turbos and engines which potentially will let go earlier than necessary.
Edited by Heaveho on Monday 9th December 23:00
The only difference between 5-30 and 0-30 is the cold viscosity when you start the car up before it's started to warm the oil up. 0w will be slightly easier to start than 5w in cold weather and you will get slightly better fuel economy while it's warming up as the oil will be slightly thinner. However you get slightly less protection so ideally you should drive slightly more slowly and change up slightly sooner with it over 5w. Modern engines nearly all use very thin oil now because of the fuel economy advantage and modern low friction/hardened coatings. Plus I guess modern oil is just better for a given viscosity now.
This next part I'm not so sure on but I think the main difference between full and part synthetic is you need to change part synthetic more frequently than full synthetic because as the name implies it's part full synthetic part base oil blended. The additives in full synthetic help bind the oil molecules together keeping viscosity more stable despite water, carbon, heat and temperature changes trying their best to smeg it up. Other additives also help it keep the friction lower and the shearing pressure higher.
I think part/semi skimmed oil is a false economy and you never know whether it's only a bit or a lot worse than the full fat equivalent unless you get the oil specification from somewhere, and know what it all means! Plus it's just hassle changing the oil more frequently to have the same level of protection. I'd always use the manufacturers recommendations as they will be tied to how often they recommend changing the oil and the engines operating rpm/cylinder pressure/materials.
Think that's everything I know about oil in one post I hope it's alright.
Edited to add: Holy crap zoobeef, just reading makes me feel like a child who just learned to pee standing up.
Also are you the same guy as this person from vx220 forums as it's the same post as yours word for word:
http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/topic/102625-engine...
This next part I'm not so sure on but I think the main difference between full and part synthetic is you need to change part synthetic more frequently than full synthetic because as the name implies it's part full synthetic part base oil blended. The additives in full synthetic help bind the oil molecules together keeping viscosity more stable despite water, carbon, heat and temperature changes trying their best to smeg it up. Other additives also help it keep the friction lower and the shearing pressure higher.
I think part/semi skimmed oil is a false economy and you never know whether it's only a bit or a lot worse than the full fat equivalent unless you get the oil specification from somewhere, and know what it all means! Plus it's just hassle changing the oil more frequently to have the same level of protection. I'd always use the manufacturers recommendations as they will be tied to how often they recommend changing the oil and the engines operating rpm/cylinder pressure/materials.
Think that's everything I know about oil in one post I hope it's alright.
Edited to add: Holy crap zoobeef, just reading makes me feel like a child who just learned to pee standing up.
Also are you the same guy as this person from vx220 forums as it's the same post as yours word for word:
http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/topic/102625-engine...
Edited by iloveboost on Monday 9th December 23:35
Thats Tom on the vx220 forum, I said in one of the posts above the info was from him. I'm still called Zoobeef on there.
Old oil won't be completely useless but its only tested as stable for 12 months. With the availability of fresh oil there is no need to use old stuff. Also, for example, shell helix ultra from 10 years ago will be different than shell helix ultra made now. The stuff they put in it has improved and it may have been through different tests to help refine it. Theres just no need to use old stuff, just know what your looking for.
Old oil won't be completely useless but its only tested as stable for 12 months. With the availability of fresh oil there is no need to use old stuff. Also, for example, shell helix ultra from 10 years ago will be different than shell helix ultra made now. The stuff they put in it has improved and it may have been through different tests to help refine it. Theres just no need to use old stuff, just know what your looking for.
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