Potholes - Porsche Driver Killed
Discussion
Potholes are beyond a joke now - they are killing people. Or is the motorist or biker to blame?
Telegraph said:
Porsche driver ‘killed trying to swerve pothole’
Police believe 74-year-old motorist swerved to dodge crater and clipped BMW before losing control, hitting two other cars and a house.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/03/pothol...
Police believe 74-year-old motorist swerved to dodge crater and clipped BMW before losing control, hitting two other cars and a house.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/03/pothol...
Nomme de Plum said:
911Spanker said:
So why are you presuming the speed was excessive? I thought you knew something but obviously not. Just jumping to conclusions it would seem.
Not at all I just look at the damage. That is a significant amount of kinetic energy being dissipated. I'm confident you understand It is just physics. Speed limits are a guide not a target.
Zero Fuchs said:
Nomme de Plum said:
911Spanker said:
So why are you presuming the speed was excessive? I thought you knew something but obviously not. Just jumping to conclusions it would seem.
Not at all I just look at the damage. That is a significant amount of kinetic energy being dissipated. I'm confident you understand It is just physics. Speed limits are a guide not a target.
When people say excessive, it's often interpreted as exceeding the limit but this was definitely excessive for the conditions (and possibly for the age of the driver) irrespective of the speed limit.
Very sad though, for all concerned.
Take a look at the crash test video below. My guess (but nothing more) is that the impact speed was no more than 40mph.
Is 40mph too fast for our rural roads?
Zero Fuchs said:
Accidents at 40mph, on a dry day, don't usually result in a car colliding with two other cars and then someone's house.
I don't think NdP or I were looking at the damage in isolation. We all know cars are designed to absorb as much energy as possible to optimise deceleration. This typical involves lots of damage. By the same token, how much momentum do you think you'd need to create that much damage after colliding with 2 cars, a house and end up a far distance from the house? 40nph?
Porsche driver swerved to avoid an unexpected pot hole. Appears he misjudged the manoeuvre. Whether wet or dry day is irrelevant.I don't think NdP or I were looking at the damage in isolation. We all know cars are designed to absorb as much energy as possible to optimise deceleration. This typical involves lots of damage. By the same token, how much momentum do you think you'd need to create that much damage after colliding with 2 cars, a house and end up a far distance from the house? 40nph?
Kinetic energy (0.5mv^2) not momentum (mv) is the important factor. From the damage incurred, I suspect impact speed did not exceed 40mph. There are multiple factors especially the effect of three-quarter impacts.
But we are merely speculating in the absence of reliable data.
Unreal said:
The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. Have a look round.
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...
So is the unfortunate Porsche driver guilty of Driving Without Due Care & Attention?https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...
Unreal said:
bigothunter said:
Unreal said:
The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. Have a look round.
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...
So is the unfortunate Porsche driver guilty of Driving Without Due Care & Attention?https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...
The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. These are facts. The precise circumstances of the accident will hopefully be revealed by the official investigation.
Your statement suggests that the driver exhibited insufficient observation. This can be interpreted as DWDCA.
Unreal said:
bigothunter said:
Unreal said:
bigothunter said:
Unreal said:
The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. Have a look round.
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...
So is the unfortunate Porsche driver guilty of Driving Without Due Care & Attention?https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...
The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. These are facts. The precise circumstances of the accident will hopefully be revealed by the official investigation.
Your statement suggests that the driver exhibited insufficient observation. This can be interpreted as DWDCA.
My statement suggests nothing of the sort.
Our potholed roads are not fit for purpose. It's unreasonable to expect motorists to allow for these hazards without warning. In some places cones and even warning signs are placed. But in many others, there is nothing. The authorities are delinquent.
Potholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.
Potholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.
Bonefish Blues said:
bigothunter said:
Our potholed roads are not fit for purpose. It's unreasonable to expect motorists to allow for these hazards without warning. In some places cones and even warning signs are placed. But in many others, there is nothing. The authorities are delinquent.
Potholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.
There aren't enough cones for the roads of N Oxon. We just assume that they're going to be st and if there's a smooth bit, that's a bonus. Tall profile tyres on both cars helps with the odd one that's missed. TBF though, Fix My Street does get results.Potholes should be marked by at least one single cone. I've taken into my own hands to mark a deep pothole with a cone in the lane where I live. In the absence of councils doing likewise, I suggest other citizens ensure all potholes are marked by cones.
braddo said:
I disagree, the A272 is still a great road to drive. That straight stretch where the accident happened has very little room for error, however.
ETA I won't be surprised if lower speed limits are implemented in that area pretty quickly.
Lower speed limits must be on the cards for pothole infested roads. 40 limit to replace NSL?ETA I won't be surprised if lower speed limits are implemented in that area pretty quickly.
Banning overtaking must be high priority. Don't want to risk hitting potholes when roaring past.
Badly potholed roads could be closed apart from access to residents and service vehicles. 20 limit would suit.
Anything rather than sort out the bloody roads and make them fit for purpose, as we lurch towards 3rd world status
mcpoot said:
Donbot said:
Forester1965 said:
Donbot said:
I'm surprised people have so much difficulty scanning the road surface.
On a bike / motorbike you have to do it constantly if you don't want to fall off every time you go out.
How high is your eyeline riding a motorbike versus someone sat in a 911?On a bike / motorbike you have to do it constantly if you don't want to fall off every time you go out.
Nomme de Plum said:
Common Porpoise said:
Unreal said:
The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. These are facts. The precise circumstances of the accident will hopefully be revealed by the official investigation.
It definitely isn't clearly visible in a low car at NSLI would contend if you can't see the road ahead for any reason then driving with a degree of caution is required.
Nomme de Plum said:
bigothunter said:
Did you just take that? Of course not it says December 2022. Only 16/17months ago.Roads change you know. Even day to day and especially after prolonged wet spells. Have you been to the IoW recently?
Unreal said:
The pothole being discussed is clearly visible. It's not concealed around a hairpin. The accident happened in daylight and dry conditions. Have a look round.
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9963213,-0.5908678...
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