Thursday 12th July 2012

Bugatti Type 51 racer to go to auction

...but is this barn-find Bugatti real or a rep?

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A rare Bugatti Type 51 Grand Prix car found mouldering in a Worcestershire garage is to go under the hammer at Brightwells in Leominster on 26 September.

As barn finds go, discovering a GP-winning Bugatti is pretty mighty, and one apparently driven by the exotically named Count Stanislas Czaykowski to victory in the 1931 Casablanca GP is more awesome still.

The car itself was discovered behind a gaggle of 80s motors, having lain unused for nine years in a derelict garage.

There is significant uncertainty as to whether it's the real deal, however, with a Bugatti expert suggesting it might be a replica, albeit one using large parts of an original Type 51 chassis.

Our colleagues on Classic & Sports Car, on whose website we spotted the story, reckon that if it is the real deal it could easily fetch £1.5 million, though they agree that it does seem likely not to be an original. In which case, the swap that previous owner Alan riley made for the Bug - a 1931 Alfa Romeo 8C 2600 and a 1954 Maserati 250F - seems liek a pretty poor deal...

[GranCab]

He should've kept the Maserati .....

[fourwheelsteer]

Whether it is real or not there has to be an interesting story behind the car and how it came to be hidden. And I imagine that even fake Bugattis are worth a fair bit - at least as long as they're not made of bits of old Marina

[The Danimal]

There's also a boxed up Commodore 64 in the 2nd pic. Is that for sale too?

[sanctum]

The second pic is probably more telling than anything you can find studying the car. That Commodore box (and it's empty and crushed) is pretty vintage, for the 1980's...
And if you look at the rest of the rubbish strewn about the garage around the car, it's not rotten, moldy, rusted or visibly degraded. In fact the decay of the visible pieces on the bottom and those on the top is pretty similar, suggesting the pile of rubbish was put down at pretty much the same time...
Start putting that sort of story together and it suggests a car that has been placed in a location and had "general debris" piled around it to make it look forgotten.
Obviously this may be an original, and that garage condition may be the real result of years of neglect, but it doesn't look like that to me.

[Riggers]

The Danimal said:

There's also a boxed up Commodore 64 in the 2nd pic. Is that for sale too?

Or a Commodore 64 box, at least...

Back O/T - the guestimate for a rep like this, should it indeed be a rep, is around £50k...

[Face for Radio]

That wheel trim is from a Cavalier SRI. When did they first come out, 1988, 1989?

[Prancing Hippo]

I don't think this really clarifies whether it is real or not, but it gives some more background to the car...

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?...

There is a lot info available on old Bugatti's available via the BOC at Prescott - I am sure a few hours research would yield some clearer results if someone was interested in buying the car.

[pb63]

"having lain unused for nine years in a derelict garage."

nine years is not an awful amount of time is it really. I can't see how it could have been forgotten about and the history of the car is not clear.

I also struggle to comprehend how the owner swapped a 250F and an 8c for something which he's not too sure if it's the real deal or not...I hope it it for his or hers sake...

[Justayellowbadge]

Riggers said:

Or a Commodore 64 box, at least...

Back O/T - the guestimate for a rep like this, should it indeed be a rep, is around £50k...

Have you missed a zero off that? If it is a Bug chassis it's going to be worth a hell of a lot more than that. Look at the price of Pur Sangs, and they're completely replicated.

[Riggers]

Justayellowbadge said:

Riggers said:

Or a Commodore 64 box, at least...

Back O/T - the guestimate for a rep like this, should it indeed be a rep, is around £50k...

Have you missed a zero off that? If it is a Bug chassis it's going to be worth a hell of a lot more than that. Look at the price of Pur Sangs, and they're completely replicated.

It does seem low to me too, but that's what they said. I went downstairs and asked them and everything...

[ode]

The Danimal said:

There's also a boxed up Commodore 64 in the 2nd pic. Is that for sale too?

It's only a 64c, you want the original, you do. ;-)

[V12 Migaloo]

I have something that has lain unused for nearly 9 years!!

[Justayellowbadge]

Riggers said:

Justayellowbadge said:

Riggers said:

Or a Commodore 64 box, at least...

Back O/T - the guestimate for a rep like this, should it indeed be a rep, is around £50k...

Have you missed a zero off that? If it is a Bug chassis it's going to be worth a hell of a lot more than that. Look at the price of Pur Sangs, and they're completely replicated.

It does seem low to me too, but that's what they said. I went downstairs and asked them and everything...

I can't believe it. If you look at what it was swapped for, it's going to have the right bits, so the engine, box etc will be bugatti. I doubt he'd have done the deal on something with a Marina engine. I'll eat my Boy's book of Sportscars if it goes for 50K.

This is Jag based, for 60K.

http://pistonheads.com/sales/3932722.htm

What did that wreck that had been at the bottom of a lake in Switerland make a year or two ago? 250,000 or so? That was a rusty chassis and a radiator cowl!

Edited by Justayellowbadge on Thursday 12th July 15:21

[LotusOmega375D]

That looks like one of those late 1980s/1990s age-related number plates handed out by the DVLA, so I guess it can't have been a UK registered car prior to this.

I am sure the Bugatti Owners Club at Prescott must know what it is. I believe they have the factory archive.

[Greg 172]

ode said:

The Danimal said:

There's also a boxed up Commodore 64 in the 2nd pic. Is that for sale too?

It's only a 64c, you want the original, you do. ;-)

Was the 'C' the one without a numerical keypad on the side?

Also, does anyone *actually* store their junk like that? I can understand a bit of a mess, but that looks like someone has literally just thrown things in there.

[Trommel]

LotusOmega375D said:

I am sure the Bugatti Owners Club at Prescott must know what it is

Exactly, it hasn't been out of view for much more than 20 years.

This Type 51 is claimed to be the 1931 Casablanca Grand Prix winner, 51126:



Same, with Riley engine in the '50s:

[austin]

The UK registration on the dark green type 51 assembled from mostly new parts and listed in the 1989 British Bugatti Register as having been owned by *****.

The car is listed in the 2000 British Registration Index but no chassis no. is given.

The last owner died recently and owned a large collection (200+). The Maserati wasn't a 250F as mentioned.

Decent Bugatti reps can be had for under £200k.

I would very wary of anything that isn't talking about chassis numbers, and anything that says "maybe" in an auctioneers description should be dismissed as not fact...

[ARAF]

Greg 172 said:

Also, does anyone *actually* store their junk like that? I can understand a bit of a mess, but that looks like someone has literally just thrown things in there.

I think the story is very believable - you wouldn't believe what I find behind the piles of unironed clothes that Mrs Araf has hidden in cupboards.

[dingocooke]

Faking marvelous....now think about it for a minute, it's got very unclear provenence, and if it was 100% the real thing; would it be going into a regional auction, or waiting for a big sale to get the £1.5m a real one 'might' fetch???
My guess a smart Bug fakester will buy it anonymously, and re engineer it into a 'more original' car.....that would place it in the middle ground of a parts car; albeit a very expensive one; I'm guessing it will fetch £120k; and a bad deal for the 8C and ferrari swap!!!

[Uncle John]

So we're assuming this isn't the real deal and that the detritus the car was found in was stage managed.

Oh dear on the swappage front and good luck selling a charlatan.