Monday 2nd September 2013

Caterham Seven 165 confirmed

Suzuki-powered Seven gets a name plus an official power output

---

The prospect of a sub-£17K Caterham Seven is a hugely exciting one, as the 260 comments following our original story attests to. Today we have some further details on the car, including that it will debut in 'prototype concept form' at Frankfurt.

The inevitable used alternative...

Perhaps the biggest news thus far is the new car's name: Seven 165. It doesn't take a genius to realise this is a nod to the car's power-to-weight ratio, which it is. Kind of. This is the car's European designation, with the 5 relating to the Seven's Euro 5 emissions compliance. In Britain, the car will be known as the Seven 160. Given Caterham has today revealed its base Seven will have 80hp, a 500kg kerbweight of course gives 160hp per tonne and also makes it the lightest Seven yet by 5kg.

Currently the 'enhancements' made by Caterham Technology and Innovation to liberate another 28hp from Suzuki's three-cylinder K6a are a closely guarded secret. Given the forced induction nature of the engine, that has that to be the focus of the modifications, with some upgrades likely to the exhaust and turbo for starters. Torque is rated at 79lb ft. No tyre size yet though...

According to Caterham's CEO Graham Macdonald, the engineering of the Seven 160 is "nearing completion" and the car will "inspire a new generation of drivers to become Caterham enthusiasts."

Those enthusiasts will need less than £17,000 for a 160 in Britain, or under 25,000 euros in Europe. Production will start early in 2014, with sales beginning as the sun emerges once more in the spring.

[Alex]

I used to have a Suzuki Cappuccino with this engine. Simply removing the limiter gave around 85bhp.

[jp7152]

80bhp?

Who could possibly need 80 horses in just one car?

[toppstuff]

Bravo to Caterham.

I am really pleased to see how this business continues to survive and even prosper.

I have always worried that the market for these cars must be relatively small and that, essentially, anyone who wants one has probably got one by now....

I guess the continuing focus on exports markets helps mitigate this problem.

Good for them.

[rhinochopig]

Turbo 7 - no thanks.

[Stew2000]

jp7152 said:

80bhp?

Who could possibly need 80 horses in just one car?

Since it only weighs 500kg, it will give a few non-experienced people a bit of a scare.

[A Scotsman]

Lots of scope for tweaking this engine including buy a performance ECU, new exhaust manifold, cams, fatter turbo and so and so forth.. The question is whether you can keep it quiet enough to enable conversations to take place

That said... this would make a great entry level race car...

[jeremyc]

article said:

500kg kerbweight of course gives 160hp per tonne and also makes it the lightest Seven yet by 5kg.

Not so: Caterham's previous bike engined models were both sub 500Kg. The Fireblade engined version was sub 400Kg (Evo's Meaden managed to get his down to 362Kg) with the Blackbird version about 420Kg.

Poor research, or Caterham looking to rewrite the history books?

[rhinochopig]

jeremyc said:

article said:

500kg kerbweight of course gives 160hp per tonne and also makes it the lightest Seven yet by 5kg.

Not so: Caterham's previous bike engined models were both sub 500Kg. The Fireblade engined version was sub 400Kg (Evo's Meaden managed to get his down to 362Kg) with the Blackbird version about 420Kg.

Poor research, or Caterham looking to rewrite the history books?

Not sure the blade was a proper model though - wasn't it kit only? IIRC the 'bird was endorsed by Caterham but not made by them.

[CBR JGWRR]

Lightest car engine one.

From a brief muckaround replicating it in a videogame, I reckon Caterham are onto a winner with this one.

[CDP]

About the same PWR as my caged 750MC Locost which is still fun but best experienced in (very) close proximity to between 35 and 41 others...

[IAJO]

You know you need to go on a diet when you add 25% extra weight to your car just by sitting it. Now where did i put that rosemary connolly cookbook.

[kambites]

Hmm, on the one hand I'm sure 80bhp is plenty to be fun; on the other, I can't imagine that many people wouldn't scrape the extra cash together to get a Roadsport.

[Jakdaw]

article said:

a 500kg kerbweight of course gives 160hp per tonne

... not really... this is such a crappy measure of lightweight cars - once you've added some of the stuff you need to actually drive the think, like, uhm, the driver, this might be 20% less...

Perhaps I could do with losing a few pounds....

[jeremyc]

CBR JGWRR said:

Lightest car engine one.

Nope, still not the case.

Caterham Brochure for K series Superlight range said:

... a total kerb weight of under 500 kgs, which is 50 kgs lighter than the standard Roadsport model. (R500 in standard form weighs in at 460 kgs).

Now as to how accurate these weights are is a whole new thread, but I doubt the Caterham scales have been changed recently.

[trunnie]

And the number difference is presumably to justify charging a lot more for it here in Europe???

[CBR JGWRR]

jeremyc said:

Now as to how accurate these weights are is a whole new thread, but I doubt the Caterham scales have been changed recently.

Fair enough.

[Tom_C76]

Jakdaw said:

article said:

a 500kg kerbweight of course gives 160hp per tonne

... not really... this is such a crappy measure of lightweight cars - once you've added some of the stuff you need to actually drive the think, like, uhm, the driver, this might be 20% less...

Perhaps I could do with losing a few pounds....

Indeed. My 140 bhp car is noticably slower with a passenger on board, and worse still with luggage. 2 up with holiday luggage, this new car is going to have more like 110 hp/tonne, and that's older hot hatch territory, current warm hatches have more. I fear it simply won't cut it, even before you deal with turbo power delivery on a seven.

[suffolk009]

Am I right in thinking that is a heater, just behind the battery in the picture? Bet that wasn't present at the weight in.

ETA: or the windscreen or the wipers. All those things are habitually listed as extras (like paint). I do wish Caterham would publish the weight of these options next to the prices.

[CaptainSensib1e]

kambites said:

Hmm, on the one hand I'm sure 80bhp is plenty to be fun; on the other, I can't imagine that many people wouldn't scrape the extra cash together to get a Roadsport.

100% agree. I don't think they will sell very many of these with just 80bhp. I'd much rather have a nearly new roadsport with a 125bhp Sigma engine.

Perhaps if you could buy one fully built for £15k there would be some more interest. £17k is too much.

Edited by CaptainSensib1e on Monday 2nd September 16:22

[fwaggie]

I was getting excited when I read the name, 160bhp in a 500Kg car is starting to get interesting.

80bhp? Really?

The Ford 1lt 3 cylinder engine produces 125bhp, add a chip tune and it's upto 145bhp.

Are Caterham and Toyota / Subaru competing to produce the most frustrating "sports" car ever?

(and before anyone mentions it, for the past 5 years I've owned a bike that weighs 185Kg and puts out 160bhp (180bhp taking RamAir effect into account))