Tuesday 3rd November 2009

Ferrari Selects Four Wheel Drive

Reports confirm next-gen 612 will feature new Ferrari drive system

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Ferrari has confirmed its next generation Ferrari 612 will get a hybrid powertrain and electrically driven front wheels, making it the first four wheel drive model in the company's history.

The next one of these will have hybrid 4x4

We say 'confirmed', but there's not been an announcement through official channels - instead the confirmation is attributed to an 'inside source' at Ferrari who has spilled the beans to Autocar magazine, saying the 4x4 set-up could appear as soon as 2014.

That's a good couple of years after the new 612 arrives around 2012, and the system under development apparently uses twin motors mounted in-board of the unsprung bits. The units are apparently suitable for fitting to both front and mid-engined Ferraris, so don't expect the electrification process to stop at the new 612.

The full hybrid 612, on which the 4x4 system will debut, could be slated for a Geneva motor show introduction in 2014 according to Autocar's musings. It is likely to feature an exotically turbocharged V8 instead of the existing machine's V12 as Ferrari attempts to tread the difficult path of exhibiting good Corporate Social Responsibility without losing its mojo. Perish the thought...

[phylet]

KERS?

[groomi]

phylet said:

KERS?

Sounds like it. Will be interesting to see how the handling is affected by having occasional drive to the front wheels.

The natural conclusion I'm jumping to is that much like their F1 car, it'll be reasonably quick in the hands of someone familiar with the peculiarities, but will be awful for anyone who isn't - ie. the customers.

Interesting none the less.

[Justayellowbadge]

The 408 was the first awd Ferrari.

/beard.

[pits]

So its a normal RWD Ferrari with electric motors on the front wheels?

To be honest the article is very vague, I know its unconfirmed officially, but it has been neglected as to how exactly they are doing this, apart from a reference to Autocar and the words 4x4 by 2014.

Any chance it could be elaborated on? Is anymore known about this project?


Either way it seems a bit pointless to me, if I could ever afford to own a Ferrari, it wouldn't be something I would specify for my car, a Ferrari should be RWD, also seems silly to make a hybrid supercar, or perhaps its a way for Ferrari owners to dodge the epic amounts of tax you now have to pay for driving a big car

[LHD]

Justayellowbadge said:

The 408 was the first awd Ferrari.

/beard.

Excellent beard.

[Mr Gear]

phylet said:

KERS?

You idiots make me laugh. It's "KERS" in a Ferrari but a loathsome lump of batteries in a Prius.

IT'S THE SAME BLOODY THING SERVED DIFFERENTLY.

It adds power and efficiency in both cases.

[RobM77]

That's a good point Groomi. Will the front wheels just drag people round town at low speed (I expect so), or interact at higher speed like in a Skyline?

[mrmr96]

pits said:

a Ferrari should be RWD,

Ferarri's used to have manual boxes (not electric)
And manual clutches (not electric)
And mechanical diffs (not electric)
And 'normal' dampers (not electric)

These things are being replaced in the name of progress.

[Gary C]

Mr Gear said:

but a loathsome lump of batteries in a Prius.

No, a Prius is a loathsome lump WITH batteries

Edited by Gary C on Tuesday 3rd November 12:39

[Mr Gear]

Gary C said:

Mr Gear said:

but a loathsome lump of batteries in a Prius.

No, a Prius is a loathsome lump WITH batteries

Touché

[Daveyraveygravey]

Mr Gear said:

phylet said:

KERS?

You idiots make me laugh. It's "KERS" in a Ferrari but a loathsome lump of batteries in a Prius.

IT'S THE SAME BLOODY THING SERVED DIFFERENTLY.

It adds power and efficiency in both cases.

I see your point, comparing how we react to a system in a Ferrari that is similar to a system in a Toyota, but I don't subscribe to the "efficiency" thing. How much does a Prius way? Has anyone ever made one do 64 mpg (every mag report I have read said it is nearer to 45 mpg) ? How long do the batteries last? How do you replace them, and at what cost?

[mustard tab]

A Ferrari with electric motors that wont be used for opening the windows
can someone stop the world please i want to get off, i've had just about enough of this green ste and dont want to play anymore

[leon9191]

Will you get a govenment grant to help pay for one of these I wonder (eg like you do with the Prius)?

[JonRB]

Mr Gear said:

phylet said:

KERS?

You idiots make me laugh. It's "KERS" in a Ferrari but a loathsome lump of batteries in a Prius.

IT'S THE SAME BLOODY THING SERVED DIFFERENTLY.

It adds power and efficiency in both cases.

You're confusing a Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) with a full hybrid. They're not the same thing and it's you who is the idiot.

[ThirdShift]

Electric 4WD? Sounds incredibly intriguing and I really hope Ferrari can get this technology right! Anyone whose owned an Alfa 166 will agree when I say Italian Electronics leave very little to be desired. The optional extra of the Prancing Horse soldering iron would be and advisable options box to tick!

[The Wookie]

Mr Gear said:

phylet said:

KERS?

You idiots make me laugh. It's "KERS" in a Ferrari but a loathsome lump of batteries in a Prius.

IT'S THE SAME BLOODY THING SERVED DIFFERENTLY.

It adds power and efficiency in both cases.

It's the same thing applied with different methodologies. In the Prius it's based around ZE city running, with 'KERS' it's about maintaining performance while downsizing the powerplant.

Chances are, if it's really a 'KERS' system, it'll have a pretty minimal battery pack (unlike the prius) and add very little weight once the smaller engine and lighter duty driveline is taken into account.

I can only see this being a good thing. Better traction, better performance, and sensible fuel consumption means we get a few more years of supercars before the socialists finally send us all to the gallows for enjoying ourselves in a way that isn't Health and Safety approved and in line with Comrade Browns import efficiency regulations.

[Mr Gear]

Daveyraveygravey said:

Mr Gear said:

phylet said:

KERS?

You idiots make me laugh. It's "KERS" in a Ferrari but a loathsome lump of batteries in a Prius.

IT'S THE SAME BLOODY THING SERVED DIFFERENTLY.

It adds power and efficiency in both cases.

I see your point, comparing how we react to a system in a Ferrari that is similar to a system in a Toyota, but I don't subscribe to the "efficiency" thing. How much does a Prius way? Has anyone ever made one do 64 mpg (every mag report I have read said it is nearer to 45 mpg) ? How long do the batteries last? How do you replace them, and at what cost?

Random car test on page 152 of November's CAR magazine. Mercedes C180K.

Claimed MPG: 42.8
Our MPG: 29.0

A Prius weighs 1300kgs, a Passat (same class and size of car) weighs between 1390kgs and 1660kgs.

And I have never heard of anyone that has had to change the battery of a Prius. Anyone work at a Toyota dealer with any figures? A quick scoot through Autotrader at the very bottom end of the market you might expect to see the 10-year old cars to have things like this in the advert:

"Knackered battery, hence low price"

But I've not seen one yet.

[The Wookie]

Mr Gear said:

"Knackered battery, hence low price"

While I'm generally a fan of EV tech, the chances are it's either because aren't driving the vehicles in a way that exploit the battery pack properly (motorway), or people don't even realise because the benefits are marginal, and the deterioration is gradual.

Either that or Toyota are VERY conservative with their battery management

[Mr Gear]

JonRB said:

Mr Gear said:

phylet said:

KERS?

You idiots make me laugh. It's "KERS" in a Ferrari but a loathsome lump of batteries in a Prius.

IT'S THE SAME BLOODY THING SERVED DIFFERENTLY.

It adds power and efficiency in both cases.

You're confusing a Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) with a full hybrid. They're not the same thing and it's you who is the idiot.

...So a bit like the kinetic energy recovery in a Prius then?

"Regenerative braking, a process for recovering kinetic energy when braking or traveling down a slope and storing it as electrical energy in the traction battery for later use while reducing wear and tear on the brake pads;"

from: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius/How_it_w...

And I realise that you can achieve the same effect in a number of different ways. Know your subject before mashing the keyboard. That's my philosophy.

[Mr Gear]

The Wookie said:

It's the same thing applied with different methodologies. In the Prius it's based around ZE city running, with 'KERS' it's about maintaining performance while downsizing the powerplant.

Chances are, if it's really a 'KERS' system, it'll have a pretty minimal battery pack (unlike the prius) and add very little weight once the smaller engine and lighter duty driveline is taken into account.

I can only see this being a good thing. Better traction, better performance, and sensible fuel consumption means we get a few more years of supercars before the socialists finally send us all to the gallows for enjoying ourselves in a way that isn't Health and Safety approved and in line with Comrade Browns import efficiency regulations.

I agree fully, except that it's not always about downsizing the engine, it's about making it not have to work so hard. The Prius went up to a 1.8 from a 1.5 to allow a fuller combustion cycle and improve fuel efficiency further.