RE: Honda Civic Type R prototype: Driven
RE: Honda Civic Type R prototype: Driven
Wednesday 20th November 2013

Honda Civic Type R prototype: Driven

PH gets a brief spin in the new 280hp Civic Type R. Worth waiting for?



First, the bad news: just because Honda has let the international media loose in a pair of new Civic Type R prototypes does not mean it's arriving any earlier than 2015. In fact, we've been told it's still 18 months away, so these cars aren't just prototypes, they're early prototypes; to go drawing serious conclusions would be dangerous indeed.

Especially given that time behind the wheel was limited to just two laps of the high-speed oval at Honda's Tochigi R&D facility. A comprehensive first drive this was not. Although if you're a fan of Gran Turismo, we're now pretty sure where some of the test track ideas came from.

'Manuals are more fun', says Honda
'Manuals are more fun', says Honda
RTFM (reassuring total focus on manual)
So what's the good news? For starters, concerns about Honda's parallel development of dual clutch transmissions have not culminated in a flappy-paddle hot hatch. The familiar Type R titanium gearknob remains reassuringly present and correct atop a sweet six-speed manual within easy reach of the steering wheel.

Honda did consider offering both, but chose to stick with the clutch pedal "this time around". We pointed out that Porsche abandoned the manual for its latest 911 GT3 because PDK is faster, and, given a certain bold benchmark target, the Type R surely needs all the speed in can get. "Yes, but manuals are more fun," comes the response. Test passed, flying colours.

Also encouraging are the looks. Again, hold your horses slightly, since plenty could change between now and 2015, but the matt black prototypes are wide-stanced on 19s over Brembo brakes, with big boxy arch extensions and some serious looking aero front and rear. Even the 'VTEC TURBO' graphics seem an appropriate garnish. Forget namby pamby subtlety; Honda means business.

Which of course it needs to, when a new front-wheel drive Nurburgring record has been the development goal from day one.

Loud and proud in the best Type R tradition
Loud and proud in the best Type R tradition
Beating the Renaultsport Megane
We don't think Honda can do a McLaren here, and merely imply a new record to help the car sell out. It needs to officially eclipse the Megane 265's 8 minutes 8 seconds if it wants to earn our respect. And whatever you think about the 'Ring's role in modern performance car development, nobody at Honda seems the slightest bit concerned it might miss the bullseye.

To the point where managing director of new vehicle development, Toshihiro Mibe, reveals the car is now looking to break the 8-minute barrier, and showed us a slide including the NSX R's 7:56. In only a week of early Nordschleife testing, official word says the Type R is already close to the Renault. But maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves.

For all that it is showing the world Type R in progress, Honda remains tight-lipped about many of the details. So let's run down a few things we can definitely confirm at this stage. Starting with the engine.

Can it go sub-eight at the 'ring?
Can it go sub-eight at the 'ring?
Turbo just kicked in yo
Honda points out that the Nurburgring is only one-third corners, so the need for some powerful motivation on the straights is definitely not in doubt, albeit in combination with balanced handling and strong aerodynamics. Right now the 2.0-litre turbo is quoted at 280hp - and feels every bit that fast as we pull out of the pit lane and accelerate onto the Tochigi oval.

There are some trick features here, as you'd expect from Honda, including a water-cooled exhaust manifold integrated into the cylinder head, and 'cooling gallery' pistons with special temperature reducing oil channels, alongside the latest VTEC evolution and multi-stage injection.

Big wheels, big wing, big attitude
Big wheels, big wing, big attitude
Although it is inevitably much more torque-rich than Type Rs old thanks to that turbo, this hasn't come at the cost of Honda's traditional revviness, and it redlines at 7,000rpm. The turbo itself is a necessary evil, born of not just emissions regulations but market demand. There was no other way for Honda to make this car quick enough.

This urgency is maximised by a traffic light-style upshift indicator: green, yellow, red. The exhaust still needs some work, becoming incredibly resonant as we decelerate back down through 4,000rpm - and we could live without the quadruple tailpipes of the test cars - but raw performance isn't going to be an issue.

0-62mph? Around six seconds, at a guess, assuming the driven front wheels can get traction; tiny tugs of torque-steer going WOT out of the oval's banked end turns further underline the motor's potency, though an artificial 200km/h limiter prevents us getting too carried away. There will be no limiter on the production cars - one of the engineers only half joking when he says it would never sell in Germany if there was.

Press here for the full Type R experience
Press here for the full Type R experience
R-mode - benchmarking the best
Having completed a grand total of about 10 major steering inputs during the test run it's impossible to pass valid judgement on the chassis. The best we could do was lean on then lift off the throttle during one of the longer turns, which the Type R accepts with neat finesse and no drama, and observe the absence of any significant body roll. But while Honda resisted those twin-clutch temptations, it has succumbed to variable driving mode syndrome.

An 'R' button below the instrument cluster adjusts the electric power steering, engine response, stability control and damping. Again, meaningful judgement is without merit yet, but the yardstick cars are encouraging, with Honda citing Volkswagen's Golf and Scirocco for on-road behaviour and that Renaultsport Megane for R-engaged track work.

Similarly, though we hardly taxed the brakes, they felt positive and progressive, and well matched to the way the steering loads. The basic suspension design remains unchanged from regular production Civics, but naturally the Type R gets a number of bespoke parts to support the stiffer settings and revised geometry.

Everything about this brief encounter, from the way the car looks to the supportive sports seats that clamp you into place, suggests the new Civic Type R isn't far off being done. Which makes you wonder why on earth it's taking so long. Honda's response is to patiently explain there was never a Type R in the original product plan for the current Civic, so those first announcements back in September 2012 literally timed the company changing its mind.

Zero to a new 'ring record in three years - once it goes on sale - is really anything but bad.





 

Author
Discussion

BUG4LIFE

Original Poster:

2,371 posts

236 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
I like how it looks...

Kawasicki

13,803 posts

253 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
Will there be a non people carrier version?

thatdude

2,660 posts

145 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
Early impressions are positive. I shall, from here-on, desire one with every fibre of my being.

SamGad

131 posts

183 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
Looks much better than the last one, here's hoping it comes out good!

Bisonhead

1,595 posts

207 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
I think I will have to scratch the Type-R bug soon. EP3s are getting too cheap to ignore...be dammed what Chris Harris says! haha

280bhp, haven; things come a long way?!

dukebox9reg

1,659 posts

166 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
I wonder how many comments will be positive now on this considering the majority where rose tinted and negative on the last thread the mention the new Type R. I like this concept and the grill treatment on the front has help no end.

CBR JGWRR

6,566 posts

167 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
Bisonhead said:
I think I will have to scratch the Type-R bug soon. EP3s are getting too cheap to ignore...be dammed what Chris Harris says! haha

280bhp, haven; things come a long way?!
4 more than the old NSX...

Krikkit

27,591 posts

199 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
All things considered that sounds like a brilliant effort. Manual box and a (relatively) high-revving engine, and great looks.

Riyazc

1,074 posts

260 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
Would like one of these with a boot!

The last JDM civic type r looked awesome....

Bisonhead

1,595 posts

207 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
CBR JGWRR said:
Bisonhead said:
I think I will have to scratch the Type-R bug soon. EP3s are getting too cheap to ignore...be dammed what Chris Harris says! haha

280bhp, haven; things come a long way?!
4 more than the old NSX...
With a turbo mind you. Still, impressive for a Civic. Would be interesting to see the weight differential between the first Type-Rs and this one

Gecko1978

11,877 posts

175 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
If I recall correctly were the old civics hard to tune as they were close to there limit (not a bad thing as great cars). But with a turbo this might mean like ford an Monotune the civic could have maybe 300bhp with some after market mugen bits.

very cool not sure looks are great but then like all jap cars its about the way they go not how they look in the car park

billy939

375 posts

162 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
Actually really look forward to this, a welcome return to form for Honda hopefully!

KarlMac

4,614 posts

159 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
A Honda that i could actually see myself owning. I'd like to see one in that championship white colour.

I think factory tuning options will be quite limited. 280 is a lot from a 2l. Will be good to see what the aftermarket does though.

That engine in some of the older Civics and Tegs could be pretty epic.

HorneyMX5

5,537 posts

168 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
I'll be following the development of this car keenly over the next 18 months having just stepped into the world of Type R myself and finding it spell binding.

My one worry is that Type Rs of old were not the best cars in their class but that high revving, mental sounding engine and slick gearbox allow many of their sins to be ignored. Now they're joining the 2.0 turbo club they have no USP and they need to get everything else spot on with the new Type R to outshine some very accomplished competition.

bagseye

111 posts

195 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
SamGad said:
Looks much better than the last one, here's hoping it comes out good!
Personally, I think the last model was the best looking by far.

But looking forward to this model. But I would also prefer a three door, and hopefully they don't go too crazy with the price.

Bladedancer

1,451 posts

214 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
Lookin' good there Honda - way to go with the manual box.
Porsche can say whatever they want and keep their autobox.
Shame about the turbo though. N/A Hondas had such a charm to them.

bagseye

111 posts

195 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
HorneyMX5 said:
Now they're joining the 2.0 turbo club they have no USP and they need to get everything else spot on with the new Type R to outshine some very accomplished competition.
This.

7,000rpm will sound good, but nowehere near as good as that feeling when you're really climbing the rev range of the NA VTEC.

dele

1,270 posts

212 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
Im going to say this is a very early prototype pipe dream, ill be more intrested in its specs closer to release time

Krikkit

27,591 posts

199 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
Interestingly this article on Autocar says that 280bhp will be the absolute minimum, and that the current cars are 300+ bhp, shooting for power approaching the A45.

ManaghGB

1,119 posts

201 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
quotequote all
Ooh I like that!

It needs to keep the big arches and rear wing, gives it a really menacing look.

Could definitely see me in one of these in 2 years.