RE: We won't miss manual Ms: Tell Me I'm Wrong

RE: We won't miss manual Ms: Tell Me I'm Wrong

Thursday 15th August 2013

We won't miss manual Ms: Tell Me I'm Wrong

Why the ultimate driving machine is actually improved and defined by paddle shifted gearboxes



'Click winner' is one of those pejorative sounding terms implying lazy, templated online content geared for driving traffic rather than necessarily offering worthwhile reading.

Bwaap, bwaap! Paddles suit the M3's V8
Bwaap, bwaap! Paddles suit the M3's V8
We've got to face facts though. No topic has got PHers more exercised in recent times than the great paddle shifter debate and inexorable rise of the two-pedal performance car. So, as M3 becomes M4, here we go again.

And acting all contrary. Because I'd argue that, in BMW's case, we have nothing to fear in losing our clutch pedal and stick shift. Indeed, I'd go further. There hasn't been a decent fast Beemer with a manual gearbox for years. And while we'll wail and gnash our teeth over the Clio 200 and 991 GT3 denying us the choice any more in the case of BMW M cars we should embrace automated gearboxes with both paddles.

Click winner
The nearly departed E90-series M3 is probably the last M car to ever offer a manual option. But while I'll defend my entirely emotional argument that the GT3 should have a manual option until I'm (Riveria) blue in the face in the M3's case I won't miss it. And, no, I'm not just being contrary for the sake of aforementioned clicks.

You'd think this'd be the dream ticket, right?
You'd think this'd be the dream ticket, right?
The first of the E90 era V8 M3s I drove was a manual and at the time I remember being justly chuffed that I'd be swapping cogs myself and enjoying a more intimate relationship with that V8 than any AMG rival has ever offered. At the time that seemed like a defining feature in the M3's favour compared with the C55 and then C63.

Truly, that V8 is a wonderful, wonderful thing and even when the M3 came out there weren't many manufacturers that'd pair such a motor with a manual transmission. Match made in heaven then.

Better than the real thing
And then I drove the M DCT version and had one of those moments. Like going back to a favourite old album and realising that, actually, it was a bit rubbish. The DCT's seven ratios seemed much better suited to the V8's power delivery and the crispness of the shift perfectly in tune with its outrageous high-rev action zone.

You think you want a manual M3; DCT better
You think you want a manual M3; DCT better
With the precedent set by the E46's SMG - far from perfect but definitely thrilling, especially in the CSL - BMW even contrived an everything up to 11 setting aggressive enough for the evocative thwack of skull against headrest and quick chirrup of tyre squeal with each tug of the right shifter. And if all that, underscored with a V8 revving to over 8,000rpm, isn't exciting enough for you then you need to be looking elsewhere for your thrills.

Basically if paddle-shifted transmissions aren't meant to be exciting or involving clearly nobody at M GmbH got the memo.

Appropriate behaviour
If the M3's V8 had been more of an old-school slugger it'd have worked with the manual better. But, like many BMW shifts, there's a length of throw, vagueness of gate and notchiness of engagement - matched with an indistinct biting point on the clutch - that just never seems in tune with the frantic M engine demeanour. And with a high-revving zinger under the bonnet of six or eight cylinders it was never quite the sweet, interactive experience it should have been. Even the old Getrag dog-leg in the E30 wasn't the sweetest thing.

Americans have the option of a manual M5
Americans have the option of a manual M5
Conversely that's where Porsche has tripped up with the 991 GT3. The weighting and tactility of the 997's powertrain is just so satisfying to perfect. Not easy. But when you get your flow on it's an unbeatable emotional connection that, 'slower' or not, just adds to the experience.

And 'experience' is exactly what you get as you bwaap, bwaap, bwaap your way through the M DCT gearbox. And is missing with the sluggish, lumpy manual. Meaning it's not really a black and white question of automated gearboxes being right or wrong, more whether they're appropriate to the car. After all, nobody actually kicked up that much of a fuss when Ferrari went paddle shift only because it suited the cars. Ask Harris.

Yanks tank
And while privately we might moan about the Americans getting the manual E60 and F10 M5s the reality from those who've experienced them suggests the same. An amusing novelty. But, hand on heart, not really suited to either the high-revving V10 or the new-age turbocharged V8 which, soulless or not, is perfectly matched to its DCT. I never thought I'd say it but BMW was right not to offer us the manual option here. Hand on heart, who'd actually tick that box? Go on, ask yourself...

Auto M135i another nail in the manual coffin
Auto M135i another nail in the manual coffin
And in case you were wondering where it'd got to here comes the M135i, flashing its eight-speed auto and proving that even a two-pedal 'Diet M' now has the technology to make the manual look redundant. When our original long-term booking for a manual three-door was swapped for a five-door auto there were glum faces at this being 'not PH enough' for the likes of us. Nobody who's driven it since has even mentioned the fact it's an auto, unless it's to say, reverently, "that gearbox is really good isn't it!" If you've driven comparable manual and automatic/DCT BMWs of the last few years it's not hard to see where the development budget has been spent, BMW's automated transmission and engine integration up there with the very best. And the market would seem to agree, this 2011 manual Frozen white M3 Coupe already worth £2,500 less than a near-identical DCT equivalent.

So there we go. No more manual M3s. And I'm not sorry. But I could be wrong...

 

Author
Discussion

Krikkit

26,647 posts

183 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
In a more focussed car like the M3 coupé, M135i etc there should be a manual option imo. 7/8 speed autos and dual-clutches etc suit more practical, every-day cars (diesels, wafters etc), but more focussed stuff (like a Z4-M while we're at it) should have a proper setup that you can enjoy driving.

BMW's failings at making a decent manual shouldn't mean we give up on them altogether, as I understand it the clutches have all been hobbled with take-up valves in recent years, spoiling the action.

All imo of course, and many people will disagree. I find a manual box (and the skill to use it) an integral part of the pleasure of driving a car, regardless of how much quicker something is without it.

RossP

Original Poster:

2,525 posts

285 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
No! Love my MANUAL E92 M3. I suspect when Harris gets back from holiday, he might have a word in your ear too!

In my view, proper driving needs 3 pedals to get the full experience. I would much rather do a manual double de-clutch than have a computer blip the throttle.

Garlick

40,601 posts

242 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
I must admit to being a huge fan of the BMW manual gearbox. My M135i (that I haven't orderded) will have one.

acme

2,974 posts

200 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
I shall follow this with intrigue, I think this thread could have some legs on it.........

Whether you prefer manual or not what worries me is what next, modern cars with their superb NVH already cocoon you from the driving experience, auto driving mode next........

Garlick

40,601 posts

242 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
Garlick said:
I must admit to being a huge fan of the BMW manual gearbox. My M135i (that I haven't orderded) will have one.
BUT

There are other cars I would happily have in 'auto' from barges to supercars. I just have a 'thing' for the BMW manual.

mwstewart

7,699 posts

190 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
I find the later M boxes are good - I certainly wouldn't want something namby-pamby like the a VAG car, for example. Removal of the CDV transforms the gear change experience too.

Chapppers

4,483 posts

193 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
Garlick said:
Garlick said:
I must admit to being a huge fan of the BMW manual gearbox. My M135i (that I haven't orderded) will have one.
BUT

There are other cars I would happily have in 'auto' from barges to supercars. I just have a 'thing' for the BMW manual.
You sound like you might be more informed about such a decision than Dan may be, perhaps you should write an article about it. There are plenty of people who still like manuals.

Snowboy

8,028 posts

153 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
I had a 135i m-sport with the auto Box and flappy paddles.

I sold it within 6 months.
Just boring.

Auto boxes with paddles are good for commuter cars or professional racing.
But boring as jell for fun road cars.

Fartgalen

6,642 posts

209 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
In my (admittedly very limited) experience of paddle gearboxes, they're a bit of a pain when manouvering.

VerySideways

10,240 posts

274 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
Having recently acquired (as a company car) a DCT E92 M3 i have to say that whilst the resale, economy and performance of the DCT version are all superior to the good old stick shifter, i'd rather have had the manual for the experience.

Yes, it's faster, but i don't care how fast it is - i want to drive for fun, not for rapidity.

pti

1,722 posts

146 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
I just got rid of a DSG 'boxed car in favour of a traditional manual - I missed heel-toeing too much! I must say though, that I'm a fan of automated boxes (the DSG was excellent) and the gearbox was not the main reason for the swap.

They're here to stay and frankly I'm okay with it.

skyrover

12,682 posts

206 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
Manual only please...


mwstewart

7,699 posts

190 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
Another point I'll add: everyone seems obsessed with how quick the paddle shifters are or have become, but the driving experience is almost like a flat-shift, and for me it just doesn't sound or feel as exciting as hearing the revs drop, followed by the engine working again, and the car being propelled forward once more. It's almost got to the stage where one may as well be driving some kind of CVT auto.

Captainawesome

1,817 posts

165 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
I drive a 6 speed manual Evo IX at the weekend and my daily is an E46 M3 with SMG. This was my first paddle shift car and TBH I love it. I never use it in auto mode but why would I??? How lazy do you have to be that you can't be bothered to pull a paddle??? I find it much better in traffic and around town compared to the Evo. The Evo feels like driving a tractor in comparison. When you have your foot down on some nice twisty bits the SMG is a delight to use.

Yes a manual box is a lot of fun with the throwing the gearstick about and stuff but I find the SMG to increase my enjoyment. Maybe it's because it is not a perfect system and it took me a while to get used to it and I do still have to 'drive' it.

I would rather concentrate on the actual driving than fannying about with clutches and sticks.

Fire99

9,844 posts

231 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
Firstly, there are bad manuals. That's not an excuse for paddles, more that the particular manual box is a bad one. (Bad feel, poorly selected ratios etc)

My issue with flappy paddles is that yes they may give you the 'thrills' or the impression of driving better but in the skills department, they're a placebo.
They take another role of the driver and hand it to the car. It all depends ultimately if it's the fastest lap time that you crave or the experience of using your skill to generate it.
Do you want to drive the car or be driven?


Garlick

40,601 posts

242 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
DCT/SMG/Auto is nice on an unfamiliar road, it has to be said. Having a nice hoon down a road you've not driven before and the corner that looked open tightens a little more than you'd like. Rather than faff you can do all of your braking with both hands on the wheel and blip down a couple of cogs without drama.

Yes, you should read the road blah, blah but at times I have found the convenience of a quick downshift useful when pressing on. I guess that's why they work well in racing.

Stenjay

2,312 posts

136 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
I'm thinking in 5/10/15(?) years time everything will be auto/flappy paddle equipped so we may as well get used to the idea. I've recently bought my first auto and I both love it and hate it depending on what driving mode I'm in. Wafting along with busy rush hour traffic on the commute it's a joy, but when on a decent A road making progress it makes me very sad.

jeremyc

23,737 posts

286 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
Appliance or experience - what do you want from your car and driving?

If it's too much trouble changing gear, why not go the whole hog and have someone operate steering, brakes and throttle for you as well? Hire a chauffeur and sit in the back whilst being transported, or simply take a taxi. wink

Prof Prolapse

16,160 posts

192 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
Whilst there's no decent paddle alternative for the model, a friend very kindly let me drive his Ferrari 360 around France a few months ago. He said it better than me when he conceded that we were the slowest part the experience. The car wanted to press on, but it felt progress was impeded by (what felt like) ham-fisted changes. By contrast the F430 I drove previously, avec les flaps, just felt more natural.

I think there's always going to be a place for the manual, but upper end cars like this are better suited to a more advanced gearbox. If you want a more au natural experience, there are a vast array of cars to choose from, which offer it in spades. I however would rather make better use of the technology and car.

I've never had the pleasure of a flappy BMW however.




dingocooke

670 posts

222 months

Thursday 15th August 2013
quotequote all
'We won't miss manual Ms: Tell Me I'm Wrong'

Your wrong ;-) :-D
You might not miss manual M's, but I think plenty of people will, and might look elsewhere 'if there is an option'

IMHO the manufacturers are missing a trick here; slightly different tack, I have just replaced a 330D coupe M sport, and faniced an Audi A5 coupe 3 litre (after 2 successive 330D coupes). When i ordered the second 330dCoupe, I really wantd the Audi (for a change) but the delivery time was too long (it was a last minute thing, and BMW had stock unusually), but I vowed to be organised next time and go A5.
Sadly in the 3 years following, Audi deleted the manual option for the A5 coupe in 3 litre form, so I ended up in another 330coupe manual.
Nothing wrong with the 330, but I fancied a change, but no manual option meant I didnt go for the Audi.

I think BMW are deserting core clients by deleting the manual option here; flappy paddles are ok, but a lot of drivers enjoy the involvement of a manual; it's neither right or wrong, it's a preference; surely a business offering high end goods needs to be careful ostracising a significant segment of its customers?

However it's spun, the deletion of manuals is all about emissions politics and nothing to do with what drivers want