RE: How Do You Solve a Problem Like Sebastien?

RE: How Do You Solve a Problem Like Sebastien?

Monday 14th November 2011

How Do You Solve a Problem Like Sebastien?

Rally GB underlines the Frenchman's dominance - here's how he does it




Over the weekend, Citroen's Sebastien Loeb won an eighth consecutive World Rally Championship drivers' title. Let's put the series' state of health and the tedium of a dominant competitor to one side for a moment so that we might give the Frenchman the credit he deserves for a remarkable achievement.

Loeb has the edge on his competition...
Loeb has the edge on his competition...
Maintaining a certain level of motivation and discipline over a decade is a feat in itself. To also retain that level of sporting sharpness is more impressive still, but to then apply these qualities over so many years without once being beaten to the championship is just out of this world. It's the same collection of virtues that made names like Schumacher, Rossi, Federer, Ali, Armstrong and Woods so iconic - although none managed a run of success as enduring as Loeb's.

Has he overcome a sufficient calibre of rival during his career to warrant comparison with such greats? I humbly think so. Finn Marcus Gronholm was a standout driver of the fiercely competitive McRae/Burns/Makinen/Sainz era, winning the world championship twice. Although Gronholm came desperately close to beating Loeb in the title race on two occasions, he just didn't ever have the measure of the Frenchman.

Loeb himself admits that always having had the fastest car in the service park has been central to his success, but we must remember that he was instrumental in their development (particularly of the C4 and the current DS3). Citroen Racing's technical director Xavier Mestelan-Pinon explains his capabilities thus: "His job during testing is to understand what is and what is not important, and to explain to us what he can feel. He understands these things, which is what makes him such a good development driver."

So where others fall off...
So where others fall off...
Much of his speed down a stage can be accredited to his incredibly detailed pacenote system. While other drivers' notes are designed to tell them how fast they can drive around a corner, Loeb's notes describe the profile of each bend in minute detail. He can then calculate how fast each corner can be taken in consideration of all the other information that's available to him; his notes aren't susceptible to variations in weather conditions, tyre wear or visibility.

Ultimately, though, Loeb's success is a direct product of his driving style and confidence. He's essentially the greatest ever tarmac specialist, but he's been able to apply his methods to all surfaces. We know that a corner on a racing circuit has an optimum braking point, turn-in point, line, power-on point and so on. The best Formula 1 drivers hit all of these points perfectly corner after corner, lap after lap.

...he keeps it pointed the right way
...he keeps it pointed the right way
Every corner on a rally stage also has a set of optimum points, but it's infinitely more difficult to hit each of them every time because there are thousands of corners to learn during a rally, rather than just 15 or so. Loeb is best able to consistently work out where these points are, then nail them.

What inevitably follows is victory. That breeds huge confidence in his own abilities and methods, which means he's capable of resisting the temptation to become more aggressive in the heat of a battle. He instead channels his competitive spirit into driving perfectly, into better hitting the optimum points on every corner.

Loeb is unique in his ability to do this. When the other drivers in the service park want to go faster, they 'push harder'. They brake later, get on the power earlier, try to carry more speed around a corner. They start to miss turn in points or run wide onto loose gravel, shedding time. When they see that Loeb has still gone faster, they believe that the Frenchman must be pushing even harder than they are. Their only solution is to push harder still, which just sees them make even more mistakes. Loeb, meanwhile, continues to drive perfectly, never leaving his comfort zone.

The result? More flamboyant drivers...
The result? More flamboyant drivers...
While Loeb wins, becomes more confident, drives 'more perfectly' and wins again, his rivals lose, try harder, drive slower and lose again. For Loeb's rivals, it's absolutely crushing. It's hard to see how these virtuous and destructive cycles can ever be broken.

Mikko Hirvonen is a fine case in point. The Ford driver came within a point and a faulty bonnet clip of beating Loeb to the 2009 drivers' title. Missing out by such a narrow margin destroyed his confidence. He has spent the following two years trying to work out why he can't get back on the pace, despite pushing harder and taking more risks than ever before.

Loeb isn't braver than Hirvonen or the others. He's just confident enough to drive perfectly.

like Hirvonen or Meeke struggle to keep up
like Hirvonen or Meeke struggle to keep up
It's actually possible to see Loeb's driving style in practice. During last weekend's Wales Rally GB, I found myself standing on an earth bank high above a stage that rounded a tight left-hander a quarter of a mile to my right, passed me with a sweeping right-hander before disappearing again a quarter of a mile to my left. Loeb tackled this sweeper in a beautiful, arcing drift, with just one brake input, three steering inputs (turn in, hold and straighten) and a constant throttle. His pursuers were typically on and off the brakes, hurling corrective lock at it and prodding at the throttle.

It's going to take an accurate replication of these principles by a very talented driver if Loeb is to be beaten in the world championship. Of course, Citroen might one year build a duff car or Loeb could suffer a string of unfortunate incidents, but in performance and consistency terms, he remains in a league of his own. He mightn't be beaten before he retires, and with a two-year contract with Citroen in place, that might just take him to 10 titles.

And he's untouchable on Tarmac
And he's untouchable on Tarmac
The eight-time world champion is responsible for rendering the flamboyant driving style of many a Finn completely outdated. For some that'll be a shame, harmful as it was to the spectacle of rallying. Loeb has forced a generation of drivers to deconstruct their driving styles and rebuild them based on circuit racing principles. He's changed the face of rallying and - for better or for worse - that's a remarkable legacy.

Author
Discussion

tbtstt

Original Poster:

215 posts

181 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
I believe that Loeb is the right driver in the right era. As the article states his driving style is clean and tidy and is well suited to the design of the modern WRC machinery (both the 2.0L and 1.6L cars). The more mechanical and less sophisticated Group A, Group B and early World Rally Cars required a more aggressive and flamboyant driving style to get the best out of them, this isn't the case with the current crop of cars which is why I think those drivers with experience in an assortment of other cars (old and new) don't get the best out of the modern World Rally Cars in the same way as Loeb.

Loeb has stated on several occasions that he hasn't little interest in driving older rally cars and (perhaps wrongly) I don't believe they would suit his style at all.

Loeb is certainly talented, of that there is no doubt, and he has seen off some major talent in his time, however if he was in the WRC in the mid-90's, with the car designs of that era, I believe it would be a very different story. As it stands he's not though and, although others have come close again this year, they have still yet to topple Loeb. 9 in a row?...

Twincam16

27,646 posts

258 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
Perhaps budget has something to do with it then, to a degree. Citroen have much more money than the other teams, so as a result their car is more high-tech. If regulations were brought in to simplify the cars, thus increasing the competition, maybe things would be closer.

CliveM

525 posts

185 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
Good read, thanks for the lack of hyperbole.

MrKipling43

5,788 posts

216 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
That's the best article PH has published. Great read, thanks.

P I Staker

3,308 posts

156 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
tbtstt said:
9 in a row?...
8. smile


He is the man at moment, no doubt.

soad

32,882 posts

176 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
Good story, a few photos thrown in too - nice read.

EDLT

15,421 posts

206 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
I had no idea that he used different pace notes to everyone else, his method makes more sense when you think about it. I wonder how hard it would be for someone to switch styles.

Shotgun Rider

816 posts

170 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
MrKipling43 said:
That's the best article PH has published. Great read, thanks.
That thought crossed my mind too as I was reading it.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

190 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
I often wonder how Leob would fare if he was competing against past greats such as:

Richard Burns
Marcus Grönholm
Tommi Mäkinen
Colin McRae
Juha Kankkunen
Carlos Sainz


Not wanting to take anything away from Leob, or the other drivers. But for the past 10 years there really hasn't been anyone I'd call that great to challenge him.

Solberg was only ever an also ran when the names above where competing, and from what I can tell the rest of the current field is much more on par with Solberg, while Leob seems to be at the level of the past greats.

m8rky

2,090 posts

159 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
For the record several of his championships were won in the Citroen Xsara,which again gets overlooked and not even mentioned in an article about Mr Loeb and his 8 WRC championships. furious
















m8rky

2,090 posts

159 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
I often wonder how Leob would fare if he was competing against past greats such as:

Richard Burns
Marcus Grönholm
Tommi Mäkinen
Colin McRae
Juha Kankkunen
Carlos Sainz


Not wanting to take anything away from Leob, or the other drivers. But for the past 10 years there really hasn't been anyone I'd call that great to challenge him.

Solberg was only ever an also ran when the names above where competing, and from what I can tell the rest of the current field is much more on par with Solberg, while Leob seems to be at the level of the past greats.
The answer is he beat Mcrae,Sainz and Gronholm as he did compete against them.

P I Staker

3,308 posts

156 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
I wish they had made a road going version of the WRC Xsara. The VTS is all very good, but i want a 300bhp 4wd Subaru killer. smile

EDLT

15,421 posts

206 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
m8rky said:
The answer is he beat Mcrae,Sainz and Gronholm as he did compete against them.
In his first full year in WRC he was even in the same team as McRae and Sainz, he beat both of them (along with Burns and Gronholm). He finished one point behind Solberg and 2nd in the championship.

firebird350

322 posts

180 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
Is it possible that the modern WRC with its homogenised format is failing to 'push' either man or machine to and/or beyond their limits? Health & Safety considerations would seem to rule out setting challenging physical tests of stamina and endurance with regard to the driver and co-driver while rally car reliability seems almost to match current F1 levels - which, historically, was never the case in either discipline.

There seemed something heroic in rallying exploits and feats of yesteryear when no one seemed to know quite where the performance limits of both car and driver lay. Predictability was an alien term and there was no such thing (ever!) as a guaranteed result - a sure thing, if you will. However, that's where we seem to find ourselves today. If any driver can operate entirely within his own comfort zone whilst engaging in top-flight competition then I would venture to say there is something wrong with that sport.

I fear that this lack of 'pushing the performance envelope' (in all its forms) may, in a strange way, be crushing our spirit. In a wider arena, I feel it manifests itself, for example, in retiring Concorde before it could be superceded, retiring the space shuttle (before it could be superceded) and retiring the Harrier Jump Jet (ditto).

Are we losing something along the way here? Or, is it just me? Am I the only one losing it?!!!

PS: No disrespect to Sebastien Loeb btw. He's the one with the eighth WRC and an absolutely outstanding run of success. But shouldn't we strive to make him work harder for it?!

anonymous-user

54 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
Very very talented driver.

Yes he has 8 World Championships but I personally would rather watch the late Colin Mcrae in a stage.

He is the Schumacher of rallying.

The one thing I want to see Loeb drive is a 500bhp WRC car with less electronics but thats not very PC now.

Back to the Group B 80's footage I go


Charlie Foxtrot

3,042 posts

215 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
I often wonder how Leob would fare if he was competing against past greats such as:

Richard Burns
It's been said that Burns went some way to champion the non-sideways rallying style. He also had much more detailed notes than his competition. although we can't compare the two together because they only competed against each other for one year and Burns was never a happy bunny at Peugeot. It's also bit of a pub topic though, because sport and sportspersons constantly evolve and imporve it is impossible to objectively compare people from different era.

DJRC

23,563 posts

236 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
When did Richard Burns become a rallying great?? Fairly handy yes, great? Knock it off. Munari or Henri he aint.

Bit unfair to throw Sainz to the wolves by saying Loeb came in and whupped him, Carlos was 5 yrs past his best by then!

M666 EVO

1,124 posts

162 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
He is a great driver, in the zone. Simple

Same as Vettel, no one can touch him as he is comfortably focused. If that changes then he will start to fade and someone else will have their moment

cossy7

25 posts

230 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
Over the past few years I have really appreciated his driving style and overall performance. He also seems like quite a nice chap considering he is 8 times world champion.

Having had a little involvement with a WRC team I can confidently say what appears to be his easy laid back driving approach probably masks very well the flat out and alien environment he drives in.

He makes it look too easy in the in car footage when in fact he is ringing the neck of the car.

As a very bad race passenger he would be one of only a few I would happily do a few stages with as a passenger.

Top man.

Stew2000

2,776 posts

178 months

Monday 14th November 2011
quotequote all
Give him a Peugeot 307 WRC car. then we shall see who has the last laugh rofl