RE: Blood Brothers: Golf GTI vs Leon FR

RE: Blood Brothers: Golf GTI vs Leon FR

Friday 24th February 2012

Blood Brothers: Golf GTI vs Leon FR

Reskinned VW or star in its own right? PH gets under the skin of the fraternal fight twixt hot Leons and Golfs



Even after 36 years, the Golf GTI is still the hot hatch to beat, not least by rivals from within Volkswagen's own stable. Ever the masters of the shared platform the Audi S3 - even the Skoda Octavia - can trace a bloodline to the Golf, but it's the SEAT Leon, in both FR+ and Cupra R guises, that offers the closest sibling rivalry to the Golf GTI in terms of performance and price.

True, the Leon and Golf are slightly out of sync in terms of vintage and market positioning, but the on-paper similarities are too close to ignore and too tempting not to compare. We'll be unearthing other family feuds over the coming months but for our first we'll explore two branches of the VW family tree, how they've evolved, what they share and how they differ.



Family tree
In the beginning there was only the Golf GTI. Six generations on, the seminal hot hatch has found a staggering 1.7 million owners worldwide and sealed its place in the four-wheeled hall of fame. Rivals looking to copy the formula have come thick and fast and from all corners of the globe. But VW has created its own in-house competitors too.

Evolved from the Sport model in 2000, the first Leon Cupra shared much with the Mk4 Golf GTI but extracted an extra 29hp from the 1.8-litre turbocharged engine to give 179hp. Never the GTI's high point, the Mk4 was left looking distinctly lacklustre against its Spanish cousin, especially when the 210hp Cupra R appeared two years later. VW responded with a 180hp GTI but SEAT maintained the power advantage, boosting the Cupra R to 225hp.

But with its approach of producing in-house rivals Volkswagen had created a problem. And one that forced it to seriously up its game with the Mk5 GTI, delivering 200hp and, for the first time, the DSG gearbox. The theme continued into 2009's Mk6, available in standard 211hp form with the new EA888 engine and 235hp Edition 35 and 270hp Golf R using the previous EA113 motor.

Meanwhile the Leon has always maintained a power advantage over the equivalent Golf, the second generation Cupra in 2007 launching in 200hp 'warm' (in the Spanish sense!) FR guise and 240hp Cupra. In 2009 the FR got the 211hp EA888 engine, 2010's Cupra R sticking with the 'old' engine and a mighty 265hp for just £675 over the 'basic' three-door manual Golf GTI. As it stands the FR+, as it's now known, undercuts the Golf GTI with which it shares the same 211hp engine by £3,380 - win-win for SEAT either way then, at least on the bang per buck and contributing to the impressive 18,447 FRs that have sold in the UK



Brothers in arms
So what do they share? As a group team, the Golf GTI and SEAT Leon have not just taken the hot hatch fight to other manufacturers, they've established a position of pre-eminence - thanks in large part to a shared vision and exemplary DNA. Both have focused on blending rewarding driving dynamics with accessible performance, and high build quality. And in latter years have led the field in performance diesel engineering too - both GTI and FR brands offer 170hp diesel versions that are hugely popular.

Volkswagen and SEAT are understandably coy about exactly how many components their hot hatches share in common, but despite sharing basically the same PQ35 platform, almost identical engines and plenty of common cabin gear SEAT still employs almost 1,000 development engineers and chassis experts at their Martorell Technical Centre helping to make its Leon look and feel noticeably different from the Wolfsburg-built Golf. And so it will continue when the much awaited Mark 7 Golf GTI and Mark 3 SEAT Leon FR+ arrive soon.



Family feud
Like most siblings however, once the gloves are off competition is as fierce as ever. Looks-wise there's no escaping the family resemblance - even if you pick a three-door rather than a five-door Golf GTI. Like brothers, the size and stance are remarkably similar, although the SEAT appears marginally more dynamic. The Golf, however, claims truly stunning polished five-hole alloys, a more menacing stare and chrome twin exhaust pipes. Not to be outdone the Leon fights back with a larger boot, a noticeably better spec and more contemporary seating - the Golf's picnic-hamper plaid seat coverings aren't to everyone's taste.

Historically the Leon, with its lower price tag, has offered more for your money - this latest FR+ is not only significantly cheaper than an equivalent Golf GTI, it's also better specced (the standard sat-nav, xenon lights, front parking sensors, DAB radio and cruise control equivalent to around £3,600 of extras on the GTI), pushing the 'real-world' price comparison further in favour of the SEAT. But this doesn't tell the whole story, because VW's GTI fights back with greater kudos, stronger residual values and a fresher design that's effectively a couple of years younger.

Any remaining brotherly love goes completely out of the window once you turn the key, with the Leon FR+ possessing crisper throttle response, lighter steering, quicker braking and what feels like marginally better performance - despite identical official figures. The GTI counters strongly with chunkier steering, a more refined ride, better front and side visibility, smarter cabin design and a more rewardingly racy exhaust note.

Deciding between the two is a real heart-versus-head puzzler, the SEAT's amazing value facing a stern test against the snob value of the VW badge and the fresher Golf package. Like all fraternal fights it's closer and more bitter than most and looks to run and run yet. One things for sure, it proves the point that blood is thicker than water.



SEAT Leon FR+ 2.0 TSI
Engine: 1,984cc 4-cyl turbo
Power (hp): 211@5,300rpm
Torque (lb ft): 206@1,700rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual/DSG
Kerb weight: 1,395kg/1,425kg
Top Speed: 145mph
0-62mph: 6.9secs
MPG: 38.7/37.7 (NEDC combined)
CO2: 170g/km/174g/km
Price: £10,650 to £23,100
Manufactured: 2009-on
Love it: A real sleeper in subtler colours
Loathe it: Leon Cupra R is even quicker - yet still cheaper than a Golf GTI
Spotted:2010 SEAT Leon FR £13,495



Volkswagen Golf GTI
Engine: 1984cc 4-cyl turbo
Power (hp): 210@5,300rpm
Torque (lb ft): 206@1,700rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual/DSG
Kerb weight: 1,393kg/1,414kg
Top Speed: 149mph/147mph
0-62mph: 6.9secs
MPG: 38.7/38.2 (NEDC combined)
CO2: 170g/km/173g/km
Price: £18,000 to £25,320
Manufactured: 2009-on
Love it: Thirty-six years on and it's still the class leader
Loathe it: You could buy two 2009 Leon FRs for the price of a new GTI
Spotted: 2009 Golf GTI three-door £16,150


Photos by Michael Ward

   






 

Author
Discussion

Harris328i

Original Poster:

358 posts

173 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
Find it hard to fall for the Seat styling anymore, the first Leon was a ridiculously good looking car in its time/market for me, but all the current ones look like manipulated taxis. And although Ive always had respect for the engineering, more so in the last 2 generations of Golf, I could never love a modern fwd VAG.

oj121

1,548 posts

172 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
Prefered the styling of the mk5 Golf. Think its the grill that does it. The golf is now the better looking alternative to the Seat. Seat lost their way a little in terms of styling and tried to create a whole new car rather than evolve a well established, well loved shape.

If they have make the mk2 an evolution then I think that would be the class leader. Alas it wasnt to be. Golf for me please.

DaveH23

3,235 posts

170 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
Harris328i said:
Find it hard to fall for the Seat styling anymore, the first Leon was a ridiculously good looking car in its time/market for me, but all the current ones look like manipulated taxis. And although Ive always had respect for the engineering, more so in the last 2 generations of Golf, I could never love a modern fwd VAG.
Interesting as Im the complete opposite. I prefer the more modern Leon's and have never liked golf's past the MK 3.


corcoran

536 posts

274 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
Cupra R on an 05 plate -- that was a lush lush motor..

lionrampant

577 posts

190 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
I like the SEAT more than the VW because it's more noticeable, but there's a little alarm in the back of my head saying "that looks so heavy, it'll understeer like a fat pig" even though I know it won't.

New Scot

208 posts

231 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
oj121 said:
Prefered the styling of the mk5 Golf. Think its the grill that does it. The golf is now the better looking alternative to the Seat. Seat lost their way a little in terms of styling and tried to create a whole new car rather than evolve a well established, well loved shape.

If they have make the mk2 an evolution then I think that would be the class leader. Alas it wasnt to be. Golf for me please.
Yes, Mk 5 is more distinctive from lesser versions, more instantly recognisable, and no, of course, I'm not in any way biased!

HorneyMX5

5,309 posts

150 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
I'm a diehard Golf GTI fan but if it was my money it would go on the Seat. Less money and IMO better looking.

Nick

Crow555

1,037 posts

194 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
I used to like the styling of the Leon, but it does seem like it's long overdue a new model. The current style looks tired next to the crop of new hatches. If it were my money however, I think I'd just go for the Cupra R and ignore both of these.

garrykiller

5,670 posts

158 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
i am glad this article has been done because i am considering both at the moment. not new ones though, i love the mk5 gti compared to the mk6. i would still buy the gti over the FR. the inside is much nicer place to be in the golf.

drophead

1,056 posts

157 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
Crow555 said:
I used to like the styling of the Leon, but it does seem like it's long overdue a new model. The current style looks tired next to the crop of new hatches. If it were my money however, I think I'd just go for the Cupra R and ignore both of these.
yes

SEAT styling looks very tired and the interior looks very unwelcoming for a spanish hot hatch.

spats

838 posts

155 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
I had a good play in a 07 170tdi Leon, a golf Gti 170tdi and a Skoda Octavia vrs 170tdi when I was selling cars a few years ago.

I found the Seat to feel the cheapest of the bunch. The steering wheel, gearknob and dash all felt nasty compared to the other two. It was also had a harsher ride than the other two cars. The A pillar is a awful design and the low rear roof line made it feel tiny in the back.

The Golf was slightly more compliant and generally felt well put together and had a premium feel to it. Generally better all round vs the Leon.

The Octavia felt the biggest and as you know it is the biggest of the 3, but it didnt translate to the drive. Not as soft as the Golf or as hard as the Leon. The dash felt quality and the steering wheel was a carbon copy of the golf, as was the stereo.

Overall I would have the octavia, mainly for the space and cost vs the Golf. But the Leon felt wrong. Maybe I'm not the target market for them but it just felt hastily put together and were the Golf was the trend setter, and the Octy better setup for carrying more gear and people round the Leon didnt "do" anything.

I'd love to get my hands on the newer versions, it looks like the steering wheel has changed, but the a pillar the same as before. I think I'd still want for a Octy again though.

Liquid Knight

15,754 posts

183 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all

FAST FORDS

17 posts

151 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
Golf competent car, bland and very forgettable and everyone seems to have one,look at the amount of slowmotion company cars there are?
Just my opinion - based on the fact that we have a Skoda Octavia and a Seat Leon FR, I prefer the FR over a Golf every day, and the ride is very good considering it has 18" alloys. My only criticism of the FR is it's unimaginative radio console area which is very plain and Golf like. Handling is excellent, as is the acceleration and braking, overall very impressed and this is the 170bhp diesel!

j_s14a

863 posts

178 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
The MK5 Golf had a nasty interior compared to the mark 6 (the seats I the ed.30 mk5 being an exception)

The Golf would be my choice, the strong residuals easily cancel out the Leon's initial price advantage, and the Golf really is a car for any occasion.

BBS-LM

3,972 posts

224 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
Harris328i said:
Find it hard to fall for the Seat styling anymore, the first Leon was a ridiculously good looking car in its time/market for me, but all the current ones look like manipulated taxis. And although Ive always had respect for the engineering, more so in the last 2 generations of Golf, I could never love a modern fwd VAG.
I have to agree, I was looking at a Leon FR the other day and could not help but think it looks boring next to a Golf GTI, but the Mk1 Leon Cupra R is still it a good car in my opinion.

I WISH

874 posts

200 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
I have a MK V Golf GT TDI 170 DSG which I absolutely love to bits.

Part of the reason I like it is because it DOESN'T have the tartan seats from the GTI (mine has leather) and neither does does it have those God awful telephone dial alloys. Why VW stay with that design is beyond me ... it would actually be a deal breaker from me if they were the only pattern of wheel available. Mine has the rather gorgeous (but strangely named) "Charleston" 18" alloys.

To be honest .... despite my affection for Golfs ... looking ONLY at the comparison photos of the GTI and the FR I would take the Leon every time ..... and when you look at the used prices it becomes a no brainer.

Take note VW .... no kilts or telephones!!!!

sperm




Edited by I WISH on Friday 24th February 18:10

IainW

1,631 posts

175 months

Friday 24th February 2012
quotequote all
A couple of years back, I'd have liked a MK5 Golf GTI, but it was way out of my league, so I got the Leon FR instead. A good used buy for what I paid for mine, compared with the equivalent Golfs that were going about. An engineer at my work bought a Golf GT TDi and it was a good grand and a half more than my Leon, with the same basic spec and the same age. So you can imagine what the petrol GTI was going for. I don't know what the Golf is like to drive, but I'd hope it's not as stiff as the pre-facelift Leon, which can be pretty hard over country roads. A friend of mine has a 2010 FR and it's a different ride altogether, very smooth. I like my Leon though, still a fairly uncommon sight on the roads and I like that. Can't complain about the equipment on it, although I wish the previous owner had spec'd the bluetooth and sat nav option.

tommy vercetti

11,489 posts

163 months

Saturday 25th February 2012
quotequote all
Great article, I think the golf looks more agressive, but from the rear the leon looks a bit more prettier. Leon also looks a bit 'bloated' compared to the Golf, they are remarkably similar on paper, but the Leon is a lot cheaper than the Golf.

Edited by tommy vercetti on Saturday 25th February 14:30

Bmw325i

17 posts

202 months

Saturday 25th February 2012
quotequote all
I've got a mk6 at the moment and had a mk5 before that. Before I bought the mk5 I looked at a SEAT FR but I felt it was like buying own brand baked beans instead of Heinz.
18in telephone dials are probably the best looking but most impractical alloy wheel ever designed, one look at a kerb or a grain of salt and they are fu**ed but the golf looks boring without them.
Tartan interior is much more interesting than the leather, I love it but i appreciate it is not to all tastes. The grey leather in my old mk 5 was so boring.

Rollogti30ed

1 posts

146 months

Saturday 25th February 2012
quotequote all
I owned a 04 leon Cupra 150 TDI which I believe were a better looking car than the mark4 golf and I loved it....but know I have a golf gti 30 edition which is a great car. I do believe the leon's don't look so aggressive as they used too.