Discussion
Accident or negligence? I can't help but wonder if, had the deceased been a child, the coroner would have reached the same verdict.
Car driver didn't see biker, inquest hears
By staff reporter
MOTORCYCLIST Michael Wood's death was an accident, an inquest was told.
Mr Wood, 48, from Gryms Dyke, Prestwood, died when his Triumph Thunderbird was in collision with a Ford Galaxy on the A4128 Missenden Road on August 24, 2003, an inquest in Amersham heard on Wednesday.
Dr David Bailey told the inquest Mr Wood died from multiple injuries.
Witness Rhoda Reilly, of New Road, Great Kingshill, said: "It was a bright clear day. I could see a motorbike.
"I estimate he was going about 40 or 50 miles an hour. I didn't think the motorbike was going too fast.
"I saw the motorbike impact with the car. There was debris everywhere. The motorcyclist was thrown into the air landing on the road, middle of the junction."
Ford Galaxy driver Paul Barrett, from Hare Lane, Little Kingshill, was turning into a parking space in Hatches Lane.
He said: "I don't recall seeing anything to prevent me turning right. The road was clear.
"As I crossed the carriageway, within a fraction of a second, there was a tremendous impact. I didn't know what happened. I parked the car on the pavement, checked my daughter, then got out of the car to find out what happened. I didn't see him (Mr Wood) as far as I'm concerned."
PC Andrew Evans, from the collision investigation unit, said: "It's a very straight road and visibility is very good."
Buckinghamshire Coroner Richard Hulett said Mr Wood was riding a yellow bike and had the headlamp on. The road had clear visibility. But the driver simply did not see him which he said was a different category for those who did see things and just took a risk.
A verdict of accidental death was recorded.
Brian Wood, Michael's brother, told Midweek that his brother had been very popular in the community.
He said: "It's been quite a traumatic year."
Car driver didn't see biker, inquest hears
By staff reporter
MOTORCYCLIST Michael Wood's death was an accident, an inquest was told.
Mr Wood, 48, from Gryms Dyke, Prestwood, died when his Triumph Thunderbird was in collision with a Ford Galaxy on the A4128 Missenden Road on August 24, 2003, an inquest in Amersham heard on Wednesday.
Dr David Bailey told the inquest Mr Wood died from multiple injuries.
Witness Rhoda Reilly, of New Road, Great Kingshill, said: "It was a bright clear day. I could see a motorbike.
"I estimate he was going about 40 or 50 miles an hour. I didn't think the motorbike was going too fast.
"I saw the motorbike impact with the car. There was debris everywhere. The motorcyclist was thrown into the air landing on the road, middle of the junction."
Ford Galaxy driver Paul Barrett, from Hare Lane, Little Kingshill, was turning into a parking space in Hatches Lane.
He said: "I don't recall seeing anything to prevent me turning right. The road was clear.
"As I crossed the carriageway, within a fraction of a second, there was a tremendous impact. I didn't know what happened. I parked the car on the pavement, checked my daughter, then got out of the car to find out what happened. I didn't see him (Mr Wood) as far as I'm concerned."
PC Andrew Evans, from the collision investigation unit, said: "It's a very straight road and visibility is very good."
Buckinghamshire Coroner Richard Hulett said Mr Wood was riding a yellow bike and had the headlamp on. The road had clear visibility. But the driver simply did not see him which he said was a different category for those who did see things and just took a risk.
A verdict of accidental death was recorded.
Brian Wood, Michael's brother, told Midweek that his brother had been very popular in the community.
He said: "It's been quite a traumatic year."
It is very sad but all too common I'm afraid.
Having ridden motorbikes myself I can tell you of countless occasions (and I only had a bike for a couple of years) when motorists have failed to see me and have pulled out of junctions etc.
I don't mean to preach but the only way to ride a bike on the roads today is to automatically assume that the guy at the junction WILL pull out in front of you and throttle back and feather the brakes..
People on the roads today are just not observant enough and I would recommend anyone to ride a motorbike for a spell...it will open your eyes and make you a better more responsible driver...no question.
Stu.
Having ridden motorbikes myself I can tell you of countless occasions (and I only had a bike for a couple of years) when motorists have failed to see me and have pulled out of junctions etc.
I don't mean to preach but the only way to ride a bike on the roads today is to automatically assume that the guy at the junction WILL pull out in front of you and throttle back and feather the brakes..
People on the roads today are just not observant enough and I would recommend anyone to ride a motorbike for a spell...it will open your eyes and make you a better more responsible driver...no question.
Stu.
stu247 said:
It is very sad but all too common I'm afraid.
Having ridden motorbikes myself I can tell you of countless occasions (and I only had a bike for a couple of years) when motorists have failed to see me and have pulled out of junctions etc.
I don't mean to preach but the only way to ride a bike on the roads today is to automatically assume that the guy at the junction WILL pull out in front of you and throttle back and feather the brakes..
People on the roads today are just not observant enough and I would recommend anyone to ride a motorbike for a spell...it will open your eyes and make you a better more responsible driver...no question.
Stu.
agreed, i did my spell, i'll continue it when i've got the tuscan too on a gsxr methinks!
however, we're not talking rear view mirrow sort of not seens... from what i understand she pulled out of a junction onto a road where he was clearly visable...?
stu247 said:
It is very sad but all too common I'm afraid.
Having ridden motorbikes myself I can tell you of countless occasions (and I only had a bike for a couple of years) when motorists have failed to see me and have pulled out of junctions etc.
I don't mean to preach but the only way to ride a bike on the roads today is to automatically assume that the guy at the junction WILL pull out in front of you and throttle back and feather the brakes..
People on the roads today are just not observant enough and I would recommend anyone to ride a motorbike for a spell...it will open your eyes and make you a better more responsible driver...no question.
Stu.
You are preaching to the converted here. The question in my mind is the blurred line between accident and negligence. How much evidence is required for "didn't see" to become "didn't look"?
In this particular case the bike was being ridden on a straight road in good visibility, within the speed limit, with a headlight showing and was seen by other road users. I can't imagine how it is possible to miss a quarter tonne chunk of metal and human under these circumstances. I wonder if the Ford driver has a conscience...
fto2tuscan said:
agreed, i did my spell, i'll continue it when i've got the tuscan too on a gsxr methinks!
however, we're not talking rear view mirrow sort of not seens... from what i understand she pulled out of a junction onto a road where he was clearly visable...?
Low sun in her eyes ??..could be a lot of factors I just don't think people look for bikes, they expect something bigger...
I was on my mountain bike the other day and some plonker in an Omega pulled out in front of me...I was literally 5 feet front him and I know he saw me..
Needless to say his rear door got a friggin good kick..he never stopped though
Stu.
>> Edited by stu247 on Tuesday 20th July 12:48
On a very similar subject, what does everyone think of that "Now you see him, now you don't" Safety Campaign on tv?
Basically, it's a point of view shot from a driver on an urban road, who keeps checking his mirrors (rear, then wings, then rear etc etc) for a motorbike on his rear bumper.
He checks again, sees nothing, indicates right (for a while) and turns. When he does the bike crashes into his rear quarter.
In this situation, with the car indicating, I would expect the bike to stop or pass on the left. The advert implies that you should take more care and look out for bikes (a worthy aim IMHO). What else could the driver have done? waited for a gap in the oncoming traffic, and then waited in case the bike wants to speed past him on the right?
Doesn't make any sense to me.
Basically, it's a point of view shot from a driver on an urban road, who keeps checking his mirrors (rear, then wings, then rear etc etc) for a motorbike on his rear bumper.
He checks again, sees nothing, indicates right (for a while) and turns. When he does the bike crashes into his rear quarter.
In this situation, with the car indicating, I would expect the bike to stop or pass on the left. The advert implies that you should take more care and look out for bikes (a worthy aim IMHO). What else could the driver have done? waited for a gap in the oncoming traffic, and then waited in case the bike wants to speed past him on the right?
Doesn't make any sense to me.
Maybe did look, but perhaps only a quick glance and the pillar was blocking the view of the bike.
Maybe, looked but didn't register the bike as they were looking for a car.
Only the driver of the galaxy knows for sure. Under the circumstances and with the evidence of the witness, I can't understand how the galaxy driver didn't get some kind of penalty, like driving without due care etc.
Maybe, looked but didn't register the bike as they were looking for a car.
Only the driver of the galaxy knows for sure. Under the circumstances and with the evidence of the witness, I can't understand how the galaxy driver didn't get some kind of penalty, like driving without due care etc.
Raify said:
What else could the driver have done? waited for a gap in the oncoming traffic, and then waited in case the bike wants to speed past him on the right?
Doesn't make any sense to me.
You can't assume that other drivers will always do the right thing. I think the point of the advert is that the driver should have looked to see where the biker was, a glance over the shoulder would have done this and prevented the accident, even if it was the bikers fault.
Clearly the campaigns telling people to look out for bikes simply doesn't work.
I was nearly knocked off mine the other day by someone simply pulling into my lane in slow moving traffic. They thought there was a gap and pulled into it - where I was!
No damage to either the bike or me but, as usual, she didn't see me - a bright red bike with headlight on!
I had to console her because she was genuinely upset to cut me up and I hadn't shouted at her. So as I left the scene I cheered her up by telling her that she had a lovely pair of tits!
I was nearly knocked off mine the other day by someone simply pulling into my lane in slow moving traffic. They thought there was a gap and pulled into it - where I was!
No damage to either the bike or me but, as usual, she didn't see me - a bright red bike with headlight on!
I had to console her because she was genuinely upset to cut me up and I hadn't shouted at her. So as I left the scene I cheered her up by telling her that she had a lovely pair of tits!
"He said: "I don't recall seeing anything to prevent me turning right. The road was clear. "
Apart from the poor sod your about to kill !!!
I too have done a few years on a bike and do agree that at every junction you need to cover the brakes, It should be compulsory for drivers to ride a bike for so many miles per year, that would stop most deaths by blind drivers.
Apart from the poor sod your about to kill !!!
I too have done a few years on a bike and do agree that at every junction you need to cover the brakes, It should be compulsory for drivers to ride a bike for so many miles per year, that would stop most deaths by blind drivers.
Davel said:
I had to console her because she was genuinely upset to cut me up and I hadn't shouted at her. So as I left the scene I cheered her up by telling her that she had a lovely pair of tits!
O.k. hands up then, who checks over their right shoulder before turning right (from a standstill) to double-check no-one's overtaking on a motorbike ??
I know I don't. Does that make me a rubbish driver? I like to think that I'm considerate towards bikers, even when they're doing a wheelie towards me on my side of the road at 80mph+ (happened the other day actually). I move to the side, check mirrors all the time etc. but if someone piled into my car because he was overtaking, while I was turning right I would:
a) pray he's un-hurt, cause I'm a nice guy
b) call him a feckwit for riding like that.
Unfair?
My immediate reaction in cases like this is one of disbelief. In my experience, car drivers will often pull across your path, having seen you, but perceiving you as less of a physical threat to themselves. What I mean is, that in a 50-50 call, the driver will cross in front of a bike, but would not cross in front of a truck despite having seen both. Risk compensation.
"I didn't see you" appears to be a get out of jail card.
"I didn't see you" appears to be a get out of jail card.
I am just burning to ask ... How many motorists have had a "near miss" with a biker? Hell, I must have been called out to a hundred accidents in my time as a policeman, But the story is always the same .... "But Officer, I never even saw him!"
I have had a few near misses, and I believe myself to be a very good driver. If you're being totaly honest, Bikers are sometimes very hard to see .. Forget about the colour of the bike, from a wing mirrow perspective (and that's hoping he's not in your blindspot) you don't have a very big "target" (No pun intended) You don't see a half ton of metal and human .... unless you can see him full on from the side, which means its already too bloody late.
We have ALL been close to knocking a biker off his bike at some point, and, I don't believe you if you say you haven't ........
Do you honestly believe that the chap in question was deliberately aiming to kill the biker .. took his daughter out for a drive to kill someone ???
Bloody hell, its not like he pulled up at the intersection and produced a sawn off shotgun and blew the guy away .. for his kid's entertainement .. There was definately no "pre-meditation"
I support the coroner, It was an accident! Unfortunatly someone died. Why do we always have to so harshly judge people for a mistake .... I bet he'll never make the same one again though.
I have had a few near misses, and I believe myself to be a very good driver. If you're being totaly honest, Bikers are sometimes very hard to see .. Forget about the colour of the bike, from a wing mirrow perspective (and that's hoping he's not in your blindspot) you don't have a very big "target" (No pun intended) You don't see a half ton of metal and human .... unless you can see him full on from the side, which means its already too bloody late.
We have ALL been close to knocking a biker off his bike at some point, and, I don't believe you if you say you haven't ........
Do you honestly believe that the chap in question was deliberately aiming to kill the biker .. took his daughter out for a drive to kill someone ???
Bloody hell, its not like he pulled up at the intersection and produced a sawn off shotgun and blew the guy away .. for his kid's entertainement .. There was definately no "pre-meditation"
I support the coroner, It was an accident! Unfortunatly someone died. Why do we always have to so harshly judge people for a mistake .... I bet he'll never make the same one again though.
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