RE: PH Blog: pure and simple
Thursday 23rd August 2012
Lordy you can throw a lot of acronyms - and cash - at a Porsche these days. T'was ever thus of course but hence the invitation to Silverstone last week for a full explanation of what they all do.
It always was proper but latest Boxster looks itNever being one for sitting in classrooms I promptly grabbed this rather fetching Boxster S, Racing Yellow paint and mean looking 20-inch Sport Techno wheels (a hefty £1,809 extra PLUS £809 for the honour having them painted black...) drawing me in like some Porsche fixated magpie.
Two possible extremes of 991 purchaseBack at the track there was a fleet of 991s with varying levels of acronym overload to show off the tech. I took a PDK'd S with the new aero kit, PASM, PTV+, PDCC and POYWW (aka Please Open Your Wallet Wide). And it was great. But again, clinical and brutally efficient. And then I hopped into a vanilla manual Carrera, silver, on 19s and just a sports auspuff to its name. And it was bloody wonderful. And it brought back something from the presentation where we were told the development goal is to get the chassis perfectly balanced and set up and THEN add the electronics on top. Which begs the question, why bother? Especially if it's going to add a five-figure sum to the bottom-line cost, as it could if you got carried away with the box ticking. Yes, that base car rolled about more, didn't grip quite as hard and wouldn't be as quick against the clock as the bells and whistles one. But it sounded gorgeous, involved you in what was going on and was ultimately much more fun.*
The less is more school of Porsche buyingThere followed an interesting discussion with some of the engineers off the back of driving the new Sports Chassis option coming on Boxster S soon. Passive dampers and much more aggressive settings liven it up no end. Innocently I asked Herr Doktor engineer number one why, if PASM active dampers are so good, this hardcore set-up used passive dampers? Are they inherently less compromised? Herr Doktor engineer number two, just out of his line of sight, nodded vigorously with a mischievous grin as I got the party line about why active dampers offer the best of both and a Porsche that can do the city commute and blistering 'ring lap alike. He did concede that if he had it his way active dampers wouldn't have a driver selectable 'sports' setting but that the market insists and who's he to argue.
Minimum electronics, maximum funSo, pushed a little, even the engineers appear to admit the gizmos aren't really all that necessary. Which probably wasn't the message I was supposed to bring back from the event...
PH Blog: pure and simple
Forget electric steering, it's Porsche's obsession with grip that's the real threat
It always was proper but latest Boxster looks it
Maybe I've been spending too much time around GT86s and MX-5s lately (maybe?) but those bloody great wheels got me thinking. I mean, they look great. The car looks great, inside and out, and more that up to shifting up a pay grade or two to compensate for the Carrera's inexorable rise to being a six-figure purchase.
But with all that rubber on the road, supported by that army of acronyms, Porsche's obsession with mechanical grip (again, t'was ever thus) makes the Boxster feel curiously inert, at least at anything even approaching a sensible kind of speed on the public highway. Demonstrated by the blinding B-road just north of Silverstone I always use for such tests that's packed with fast and slow corners, weird cambers and lumps and bumps of all shapes and sizes. And the Boxster just took it apart with clinical precision. And that's just it - clinical precision. Still a lovely thing, mind.
Two possible extremes of 991 purchase
The less is more school of Porsche buying
Minimum electronics, maximum fun
Dan
*The above words will promptly be swallowed at the first whiff of the keys to anything with a GT3 badge on it, obviously
Discussion
A good point and well made, and something that can be applied to many other manufacturers. We are probably reaching the point now even in average cars, where the technology and performance is way in excess of the average drivers abilities.
As an side I personally think wheel sizes have gone too far on most cars, though I do appreciate there are braking considerations due to the extra mass modern cars tend to carry.
As an side I personally think wheel sizes have gone too far on most cars, though I do appreciate there are braking considerations due to the extra mass modern cars tend to carry.
IAJO said:
That new boxter is about the best looking car around at the moment, even in banana.
It really is, especially in the flesh. Perfect amount of aggression but it still looks light on it's feet.Anyway, I've always wanted a simple C2 or C2S 911 more than any of the more expensive variants. Less is definitely more.
You see i think its a bad point well made.
This isn't a Porsche problem, its throughout cars in general, tyres and wheels have got wider and grip has increased on every car over the last 20 years. Suspension isn't really any different to how it was 20 years ago, and isn't subjectively any better when you get down to the oily bits. But people want a new car to be faster on the twisties than the last one so this is what you get.
Tyre profiles are also getting lower as tyres get wider, at the same rate our roads are getting worse, so each generation of new car 'seems' to ride worse than last, so electronic gadgets try to right this wrong with lots of settings.
Also yes drifting cars etc can be fun but lets be honest, a great 'road' car it does not make, and whenever you see some clown trying it on a public road coming towards you, it does make you think they should be down at the B&Q car park, not risking your families necks (I don't care about theirs).
This isn't a Porsche problem, its throughout cars in general, tyres and wheels have got wider and grip has increased on every car over the last 20 years. Suspension isn't really any different to how it was 20 years ago, and isn't subjectively any better when you get down to the oily bits. But people want a new car to be faster on the twisties than the last one so this is what you get.
Tyre profiles are also getting lower as tyres get wider, at the same rate our roads are getting worse, so each generation of new car 'seems' to ride worse than last, so electronic gadgets try to right this wrong with lots of settings.
Also yes drifting cars etc can be fun but lets be honest, a great 'road' car it does not make, and whenever you see some clown trying it on a public road coming towards you, it does make you think they should be down at the B&Q car park, not risking your families necks (I don't care about theirs).
Agreed Dan. Less is definitely more. Very happy with my non-PASM, base, Boxster 2.9. The engine is a peach. You can get near/over the limit if so inclined, and you feel in touch with the machine - rather than having the electronics sort everything out for you. Electronics/chassis aids undoubtedly make the car faster and more competent through a corner - but rob you of feel and interaction. After all, interaction and engagement is what you buy a sports car for isn't it!
Oddball RS said:
Also yes drifting cars etc can be fun but lets be honest, a great 'road' car it does not make, and whenever you see some clown trying it on a public road coming towards you...
... you know that they've chosen a highly inappropriate time and place to do it, in that there is somebody else around to witness it.kambites said:
Not really fair to point the finger solely at Porsche, pretty much everyone is doing much the same.
However, I guess in a similar vein to the Panamera D thread, people's expectations of Porsche to offer a purity of driving experience are higher than with other manufacturers. Whether those expectations are justifiable is debatable of course.
At least the Porsche options list still allows you to choose how much technology etc you want on your car.
I seem to remember LJK Setright putting forward the theory that the Fiat X-19 worked better with lighter wheels and narrower tyres rather than increasing the power as it was well balanced at the limit of adhesion. With wide tyres the limit was never approached due to a lack of grunt and dullness prevailed. Monkey tried the same with a C63AMG (or something similar from Merc / AMG) with amusing results. Maybe less is more. Or less could be the new more?
Modern cars are fantastic - incredible pieces of engineering.
And not least give you a much better chance of not even being injured even in quite serious accidents.
However - I believe a 1984 911 3.2 targa will give you more fun and more driving pleasure than anything produced afterwards.
Anyone read an article comparing a 1966 911 with a 997. The last line in the article was 'Don't tell Porsche, but the 1966 car was much more fun to drive'.
And not least give you a much better chance of not even being injured even in quite serious accidents.
However - I believe a 1984 911 3.2 targa will give you more fun and more driving pleasure than anything produced afterwards.
Anyone read an article comparing a 1966 911 with a 997. The last line in the article was 'Don't tell Porsche, but the 1966 car was much more fun to drive'.
Porsche wheels are just huge and thier "fantastic" grip in the twisters is down to shed loads of rubber on the road. In a specialist I saw a stack of 458 wheels next to a stack of carerra wheels. The Porsche had 30-40% more rubber. Ferrari would not numb the feel of thier cars with such huge amounts of rubber, just implement a design that works, not sticking to an outdated tradition and keeping dynamic performance acceptable with vast amounts of rubber.
Bill said:
F1GTRUeno said:
It really is, especially in the flesh. Perfect amount of aggression but it still looks light on it's feet.
I sat behind a new Cayman yesterday, in white of all things and found myself musing how good looking it was.
[quote=mwstewart We are probably reaching the point now even in average cars, where the technology and performance is way in excess of the average drivers abilities.
As an side I personally think wheel sizes have gone too far on most cars, though I do appreciate there are braking considerations due to the extra mass modern cars tend to carry.
[/quote]
Wheel sizes have definitely gone too far....the wheels seem to dominate the look of a 991 more than the 997.
I think we've been past the point where cars are in excess of most drivers abilities for a long time....hence the need to all the electronic trckery to keep it in check. I bough an E46 M3 in 2002 and a year later took it out to the Swiss Alps for a month.....drove it harder than I have driven a car before and realised that a) I never got within 50% of the cars abilities in normal driving in the UK and b) That it was such a hugely capable car...mroe capable than it's driver.
As an side I personally think wheel sizes have gone too far on most cars, though I do appreciate there are braking considerations due to the extra mass modern cars tend to carry.
[/quote]
Wheel sizes have definitely gone too far....the wheels seem to dominate the look of a 991 more than the 997.
I think we've been past the point where cars are in excess of most drivers abilities for a long time....hence the need to all the electronic trckery to keep it in check. I bough an E46 M3 in 2002 and a year later took it out to the Swiss Alps for a month.....drove it harder than I have driven a car before and realised that a) I never got within 50% of the cars abilities in normal driving in the UK and b) That it was such a hugely capable car...mroe capable than it's driver.
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