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Friday 21st September 2012

Honda WILL make a new Civic Type R

Its mission: to be the fastest FWD car around the Ring



Honda CEO Takanobu Ito has confirmed a new Civic Type R is on the way – and he wants it to become ‘the fastest front-wheel drive car around the Nurburgring’. 

The firm appears set to achieve this by replacing the old 2.0-litre VTEC, finally killed by emissions regulations, with a brand new 1.6-litre turbo motor. This is the engine Honda’s developing for its new WTCC World Touring Car entry, which is to race for the first time next month at Suzuka.

WTCC is the driving force
WTCC is the driving force
In racing spec, the engine is expected to produce around 310hp and rev to 8500rpm. If Honda wants it to be fast on the road too, it won’t be dialling this back too much – making this potentially the highest-output 1.6-litre turbo on sale?

Of course, Honda hasn’t confirmed anything more than that the Civic Type R will use ‘technologies developed through Honda’s participation in the WTCC’. But why else would it go to the vast expense of developing an all-new 1.6-litre turbo just for motorsport? Downsizing is currently all the rage, too…

The car will be built in the UK at Honda’s Swindon plant, and is likely to be a key product of Honda’s decision to give Swindon’s engineering team more of a leading role in developing European-focused cars. As such, expect a model better suited to British roads.

It does, of course, appear to mean the end of the high-revving normally-aspirated VTEC, at least for now. You sense Honda would have preferred to stick with VTEC, but regulations have forced its hand, hence the move into WTCC racing. What better platform to develop an engine that’s true to your roots than in motorsport?

The engine as an objet d'art
The engine as an objet d'art
The only pity is the wait we have in store: Honda says it won’t be here before 2015, which is a jolly long time to wait for a hot version of a model that’s already on sale. It had better be good: such an extended development time suggests it will be.

In other Honda news, the firm has revealed plans to develop a Nissan Juke-rivalling compact SUV, a new fuel cell vehicle that (unlike the FCX Clarity) will come to Europe, and a trio of new hybrids. The one-motor hybrid aims to be the world’s most fuel-efficient hybrid of all, while the two-motor system will be used for mid-size vehicles.

There will also be a clever ‘super handling all-wheel drive’ three-motor hybrid system that the new NSX will use. Alongside this new supercar will be a new super sports bike, to take on the mighty BMW S1000RR.

These product developments are part of Honda’s highly ambitious growth plans. It wants to boost global customers from 23.9 million to 39 million – a 60 per cent rise. And if Honda deems a new class-dominating Civic Type R a key part of this plan, that’s fine by us.

richardaucock
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Author Discussion

Antj

Original Poster:

621 posts

80 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
Shame that one of the purest NA engines the K20, is gone and Honda is leaving the NA market, but i think we all know how good some of Hondas previous small capacity turbo's have been, don't we Mr Senna....

this will be a great car

kambites

38,072 posts

101 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
310bhp from 1.6 litres in a shopping car - these small capacity turbocharged engines are certainly advancing at a fair old rate.

Gadgeroonie

5,297 posts

116 months

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Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
i for one would love to see a Honda Turbo

the N/A engine with a turbo fitted go like stink already !

MrTappets

786 posts

71 months

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Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
A shame to see the old NA engine going, but I suppose in the real world it didn't have enough torque to be 'everyday' fast. Now that everyone's going turbo we're seeing rapid advancement in specific output and power band. I suppose we can't be far off the 200bhp/litre 'normal' car now.

doogz

22,249 posts

67 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
kambites said:
310bhp from 1.6 litres in a shopping car - these small capacity turbocharged engines are certainly advancing at a fair old rate.
No, it's 310bhp from a 1.6 litre engine in a race car.

Which isn't really the same thing, is it?
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Krikkit

4,858 posts

61 months

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Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
kambites said:
310bhp from 1.6 litres in a shopping car - these small capacity turbocharged engines are certainly advancing at a fair old rate.
In racing spec. Even with restricted WTCC regs, that's probably 80hp more than a road spec at the mo.

RobCrezz

7,852 posts

88 months

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Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
Hopefully it will still be a high revving vtec screamer even with the turbo.

peterattheboro

843 posts

63 months

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Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
I'll be interested to know where the peak power is on the rev range and where the turbo kicks in. Hopefully it'll be after 5800rpm...

matpilch

62 posts

20 months

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Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
meh, everyone used to turbocharge the k20 or k24 anyway.
shame nevertheless, but that was inevitable

Ali_T

1,488 posts

137 months

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Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
Hmmm, personally, I think they should drop the Type R badge. It's too closely associated with the immediate response and high revving character of a small displacement VTEC. Turbo lag in a Type R is just going to seem wrong. Plus, 2015? That's only going have a lifespan of 2-3 years at maximum, and the current Civic is going to be very old hat by then as, by all accounts, it's not even close to class leading at the moment. Odd decision. In the meantime, Honda's showrooms are full of worthy but incredibly dull cars that no-one really wants. I used tobe a big Honda fan so it does pain me to see what a mess they're making of things, recently.

StottyZr

4,650 posts

43 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
Awesome. High revving and turbocharged, a great and very rare mixture! To be the fastest FWD around the ring I don't think they'll be able to loose much HP from the racing spec.

Crow555

1,033 posts

74 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
Ali_T said:
Hmmm, personally, I think they should drop the Type R badge. It's too closely associated with the immediate response and high revving character of a small displacement VTEC. Turbo lag in a Type R is just going to seem wrong. Plus, 2015? That's only going have a lifespan of 2-3 years at maximum, and the current Civic is going to be very old hat by then as, by all accounts, it's not even close to class leading at the moment. Odd decision. In the meantime, Honda's showrooms are full of worthy but incredibly dull cars that no-one really wants. I used tobe a big Honda fan so it does pain me to see what a mess they're making of things, recently.
I agree and disagree. Type-R is meant to be a race-derived car for the road. Given that the inspiration is a WTCC version of this car, then I couldn't imagine a more fitting moniker. It's a shame the NA is gone but it's out of Honda's hands. Time to move on.

kambites

38,072 posts

101 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
doogz said:
kambites said:
310bhp from 1.6 litres in a shopping car - these small capacity turbocharged engines are certainly advancing at a fair old rate.
No, it's 310bhp from a 1.6 litre engine in a race car.

Which isn't really the same thing, is it?
Ah oops. Must learn to read more accurately. hehe

otolith

23,759 posts

84 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
kambites said:
doogz said:
kambites said:
310bhp from 1.6 litres in a shopping car - these small capacity turbocharged engines are certainly advancing at a fair old rate.
No, it's 310bhp from a 1.6 litre engine in a race car.

Which isn't really the same thing, is it?
Ah oops. Must learn to read more accurately. hehe
This is a fair point, though;

StottyZr said:
To be the fastest FWD around the ring I don't think they'll be able to loose much HP from the racing spec.

kambites

38,072 posts

101 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
So what do we reckon... 250bhp?

kambites

38,072 posts

101 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
matpilch said:
meh, everyone used to turbocharge the k20 or k24 anyway.
shame nevertheless, but that was inevitable
They were much better with a supercharger, though. driving

y2blade

52,365 posts

95 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
kambites said:
So what do we reckon... 250bhp?
I recon it will be fantastic yes
Those latest Civics look bloody brilliant anyway, so a kickass version will be the tits!

cloud9

doogz

22,249 posts

67 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
kambites said:
doogz said:
kambites said:
310bhp from 1.6 litres in a shopping car - these small capacity turbocharged engines are certainly advancing at a fair old rate.
No, it's 310bhp from a 1.6 litre engine in a race car.

Which isn't really the same thing, is it?
Ah oops. Must learn to read more accurately. hehe
This is a fair point, though;

StottyZr said:
To be the fastest FWD around the ring I don't think they'll be able to loose much HP from the racing spec.
Fastest at the moment is still the Megane 265 yeah? At 1400Kg.

Before you considering handling, there's a bit of leeway there.

kambites

38,072 posts

101 months

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Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
Well the standard 1.8 Civic seems to be listed as 1200kg, so it starts off with a significant advantage over the Meganne.

RobCrezz

7,852 posts

88 months

[news] 
Friday 21st September 2012 quote quote all
kambites said:
They were much better with a supercharger, though. driving
Im sure Honda will do a good job with the engine, even though they will have to use forced induction. I believe there hasnt been a bad type R engine, each one has been superb:
B16b
B18c
H22a
C32b
K20a
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