RE: Snap! Now pay your road toll

RE: Snap! Now pay your road toll

Tuesday 13th November 2012

Snap! Now pay your road toll

Camera tech used to replace Dartford toll-booths will be designed for rollout across the country



One of the main barriers to national road tolls just got lifted with news that the 'free-flow' technology that will replace the booths at the M25 Dartford crossing will be developed for use across the UK.

That traffic-snarling impediment on the southside of the Thames crossing will be replaced in October 2014 with cameras that'll snap each passing vehicle, much like they do within the London congestion charge.

You'll go online to pay for each individual trip, or set up an account. Don't pay and you'll get a fine in the post, currently proposed at between £35 to £105 depending how quickly you pay.

This is great news for those using the crossing, if you can get over your anger that the tolls to pay for the 1991 bridge were supposed to be dropped in 2003.

Cameras will snap each licence plate
Cameras will snap each licence plate
But the camera tech won't just be used for Dartford, according to the Highways Agency. "We're seeking to future proof it to make sure if there were similar applications elsewhere they would be able to take the innovations and apply them," a spokesman told PistonHeads. "It would be a starting point."

The tender for the technology went out to private companies back in September, but it'll be owned by the Government to apply where they like, and without needing barriers or tags or any of the other expensive toll infrastructure you see on the Continent.

Road pricing is one of the proposals to replace the current VED, it emerged back in September, and the government is known to be mulling tolls to pay for the upgrading of roads such as the A14 in the east of England.

And just in case you're still thinking 'they wouldn't have the guts...', then the government has just released a consultation into the fines that would be levied if you drive past the cameras without paying. "One of the largest challenges in operating a barrier free or 'free-flow' operated road user charging scheme is gaining a high level of payment compliance," the consultation document notes. "Without both physical barriers and the provision to enforce, there would be little to ensure that road users complied."

So, of course, they're proposing fines, to the tune of £60, rising to £180 if you ignore their letters. According to the Highways Agency, foreign drivers who skip through would be chased by European debt collection agencies.

It certainly looks like charging is inevitable, which means we're all going to have to be very vigilant that any extra fees are accompanied by reductions elsewhere in the myriad taxes we pay.

Author
Discussion

robinessex

Original Poster:

11,046 posts

180 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
bks !! Keep to the promise of making it free

cadoganpier

37 posts

182 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
A good friend of mine worked for the company that is doing the cableing down the side of the M4 that has been going on for years, apparently that has the capacity to deal with toll cameras.

FWDRacer

3,564 posts

223 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
Same as the ROI. This technology, whilst abhorrent to many has completely sorted the bottleneck over the Liffey on the M50.

The tailbacks at the Dartford tunnel and crossing will be a thing of history - but how much would people be prepared to pay for that convenience? Yes, it should be a right - but once the fog has cleared on the rose tints, simple fact is that there are too many of us crammed onto this little island!

Edited by FWDRacer on Tuesday 13th November 09:29

RemarkLima

2,366 posts

211 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
Yeah, to get rid of the tolls on the Dartford Crossing would be a blessing - But by then the toll will be £5 each way at the rate it's increasing... Rather than actually just removing the tolls and being done with it!

So, like all good news from the Govt, it's swiftly followed with a kick in the balls.

Wozy68

5,387 posts

169 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
More lies then from the powers that be. Should have stopped the tolls back in 2003? Then why still tolls and now cameras.

These toll (spy) camera will be on major roads over the next few years. It's so obvious they will.

I really am struggling to see the point of residing in this or any other Western European country anymore.

Waste money on everything else, so cut the armed forces and tax the motorist to claw the money back.

Whatever happened to the enjoyment of driving and the freedom it gave? There are families up and down this country already that no longer have days out to the seaside etc because they can't afford the fuel.

I can't believe for one second that this system would be cheaper. It can be classed as fairer (to get it through) but it will cost more to everyone in the longterm.

robinessex

Original Poster:

11,046 posts

180 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
Apparently, 4% of cars on the road are uninsured. The crossing had 150,000 vehicles per day. So where are they going to put the 6,000 uninsured cars then ??

richb77

887 posts

160 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
Well. As an affront to my personal privacy (I have not given permission to be photographed willy nilly) i will be using illegible number plates from here on in. Stop before the tolls. Swap the plates...Pass the tolls swap them back again.

fking thieving spying s.

sanctum

191 posts

174 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
It's not just the uninsured, it's the untaxed and the reg plate clones that should bother you.

Who's going to pay for all the unregistered (no tax and no insurance) cars being driven through the tolls? who's going to pay for the cars which have just been sold, but the V5 hasn't been posted? Who's going to pay for the cloned registration plate cars and all the letters and legals that will be needed to prove it wasn't the real vehicle?

Oh yes, it'll be us, the law abiding, tax paying public.

Damn.

TonyHetherington

32,091 posts

249 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
I have mixed feelings.

The impactless charging is fantastic. The queues (both clockwise and anticlockwise) even at non-peak times can be terrible, so this will be a great help.

However, I too remember the "it will be free once it's paid for" - all the way back in 1991. In fact, I rememebr my dad driving over the QEII bridge even before it was open (late at night they wanted to work on the tunnel).

It will never, ever be free as it's not owned by us any more. A French company, no less.

So yes, that the technology will be as such is good - and will work very well and conveniently. But it should be far less cost, and I'm sure I'll get a ticket when someone uses my number plate, just like they did in the congestion charge zone.

Uncle John

4,271 posts

190 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
Fook me!

With reading this and with the inevitable rollout across other major roads in the country that will follow - coupled with the impending rise in fuel duty.... because this time, believe me they will apply the rise!!!

Where do I hand my licence in???

julian64

14,317 posts

253 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
Errumm, good news for those going south but it won't be used for those going north. There will still be a queue back to the M2 on most mornings.

cptsideways

13,535 posts

251 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
The technology to do this has been on our roads for years, those blue cameras on stalks only need a software update & a centre to process the data & fines for non compliance.


But all we really need is tax put on fuel instead

Mark Benson

7,498 posts

268 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
Expect a massive increase in cloned plates if this rolls out nationwide.

gforceg

3,524 posts

178 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
richb77 said:
Well. As an affront to my personal privacy (I have not given permission to be photographed willy nilly) i will be using illegible number plates from here on in. Stop before the tolls. Swap the plates...Pass the tolls swap them back again.

fking thieving spying s.
A. You don't have to.

B. No you won't.

hth

TonyHetherington

32,091 posts

249 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
julian64 said:
Errumm, good news for those going south but it won't be used for those going north. There will still be a queue back to the M2 on most mornings.
I double checked, but couldn't see where it mentioned that bit?! Would be surprising to put in all the infrastructure but only update half the tolls.

Simond S

4,514 posts

276 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all

Surely the best option for foriegn registered cars is to have a pay booth at each UK exit port.

Driver pulls up, number plate is read and is told by customs officer what he pays in toll fees. No fines, just fees.

No point in fining somebody for not paying a bill they were unaware or unable to pay.

This also assumes (IIRC) that paying the bill online on a daily basis is easier than paying at a toll booth. Unless it is automated like the London CC it will be an even bigger headache.

And number plate cloning willl be a much bigger issue that it is today. With a fine of £30 as a deterrent against a weekly commutr paying £100 per month in fees at todays money it is a no brainer.


big_boz

1,684 posts

206 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
Does anyone know if the Dartford crossing has paid for itself yet?

E30M3SE

8,465 posts

195 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
cptsideways said:
The technology to do this has been on our roads for years, those blue cameras on stalks only need a software update & a centre to process the data & fines for non compliance.


But all we really need is tax put on fuel instead
Yes, but that's too simple a solution.

Hasbeen

2,073 posts

220 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
You'll be sorry.

We've had this stuff on a few major roads for a while. Many regular users have a transponder, which is supposed to register when you enter a toll area, & pay the toll automatically.

It works about 80% of the time. A computer is supposed to register if you are photographed, despite having the transponder, & correct mistakes. It doesn't. At least once every couple one of three of us is on the phone chasing double charges, or fines for not paying, despite having paid automatically.

This is of course just the practice system for passage speed measurement & fines.

We must understand your government needs these fines, for the income to enable it to help you. One would think you almost believe you could do without their kind of help.

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Tuesday 13th November 2012
quotequote all
It is interesting as its logical to making existing tolls charge electronically. The question is whether the cost of infrastructure can be paid for from fines or whether the charge has to go up considerably.

Rolling it out across the UK is interesting as well. Taxing fuel is by far the most efficient system of road taxation but it is a political hot potato and Govt cannot keep increasing it as they have been doing so in real terms that income is falling an will continue to do so.

At the same time VED is also falling due to Eco incentives for lower CO2 cars.

Such a taxing system will almost certainly have tiers based on the bunny killing ability of cars. Will it also have exclusions for EVs or classic cars? Doubtfull.

Crime? Well, there is an arguement that the information can be used to catch uninsured or untaxed cars.

However, it will cause criminals and low rent punters to plough through unsuitable roads to swerve the system.

If fuel tax remained fixed. If VED was reduced and standardised. Then paying for journeys would be ok. However, we know that this will be an additional tax not a replacement and that it will fall heavily on the shoulders of road users.