RE: Porsche says 'kerching!'

RE: Porsche says 'kerching!'

Wednesday 12th December 2012

Porsche says 'kerching!'

New model blitz helps Porsche ride out recession



Stats can, of course, be spun in any way you like so when Porsche boasts of selling over 90 per cent more 911s in November of this year compared with November of last year it sounds impressive.

But of course November last year was the moment the new 991 launched, so it's little wonder sales of the 997 were a little stagnant at this point. Likewise the chest beating about a three-fold increase in Boxster sales seems a little cheeky, given that this too is based on an all-new model.

Even Porsche calls it a cash cow...
Even Porsche calls it a cash cow...
The shocking thing, however, is not the 30 per cent increase in sales January-November in China, or 63 per cent boost comparing November 2012 with November 2011 in the same market. No, the really surprising thing is just how few sports cars Porsche now sells - of the nearly 13,000 cars it built in November just a smidge over 2,000 were 911s. And just 1,200 were Boxsters.

And you don't need to be a market analyst to guess what's really selling, or where. Sales are up in Europe - bucking trends elsewhere in the car market - but they're still soaring in China and America, the overall 128,978 vehicles built trumping 2011's number of 118,868 by some margin and not swelled by sales of 911s of Boxsters. Such is the way of it - at least they're still building them!

Author
Discussion

Davey S2

Original Poster:

13,075 posts

253 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
As Mr Harris said previously I don't care what ugly, heavy 4x4's or Panemeras they build and flog to China. If it gives them the cash to make cars like the GT3RS and 918 then thats fine with me.

HAB

3,632 posts

226 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
I wish they'd go bust so I can like them more. Or at least be a bit shyte and/or fall apart & break down frequently.

Then they would have passion & character and be a true enthusiasts marque.

They'll never learn.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
Good for them (or possibly good for VW for buying them).

SmartVenom

462 posts

168 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
I am shocked at just how few 911s/boxsters they actually sell. Especially as round my way I see a lot of brand new 911s. Thank goodness that the cash cow cayenne keeps them going.

This must be bad news for those who insist that the GT3 will be manual as porsche will worry about sales of a PDK car. GT3 sales must be so tiny as a percentage of overall sales that I can't see porsche feeling any urgent need to respond to a small segment demanding manuals. That said I guess its a miracle porsche make GT3s at all!

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
Makes me wonder whether it's really worth them producing the Boxster, too. For a company that big, a car sitting on a bespoke platform that only sells 1200 a month, a couple of months after release can't be making much profit? Given how much of their market is China, and how little interest the Chinese have in sports cars, the question has got to be on somebody's mind.

Dave Hedgehog

14,541 posts

203 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
Davey S2 said:
As Mr Harris said previously I don't care what ugly, heavy 4x4's or Panemeras they build and flog to China. If it gives them the cash to make cars like the GT3RS and 918 then thats fine with me.
Those sales figures for the sports cars are shockingly low, how long will the accountants indulgence this folly?

worrying ..

Deva Link

26,934 posts

244 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
kambites said:
Makes me wonder whether it's really worth them producing the Boxster, too. For a company that big, a car sitting on a bespoke platform that only sells 1200 a month couple of months after release can't be making much profit?
Isn't Boxster built by a 3rd party?

Re Cayenne, it's widely accepted Porsche weren't far off going bust and Cayenne saved them.

waterwonder

995 posts

175 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
"Stats can, of course, be spun in any way you like"

Quite! Cars built in one month is not necessarily indicative of what they actually sell over the course of the year.....but I’d be interested to hear some more.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
kambites said:
Makes me wonder whether it's really worth them producing the Boxster, too. For a company that big, a car sitting on a bespoke platform that only sells 1200 a month, a couple of months after release can't be making much profit? Given how much of their market is China, and how little interest the Chinese have in sports cars, the question has got to be on somebody's mind.
12 x 12 = 15,000 a yr roughly.
15,000 x 4 = 60,000 for a 4 yr model run
60,000 x £40,000 (an average price) = £2,400,000,000

Its doing a lot of cost sharing with the 911, its facelift for the 2nd half of its run will be fairly minimal cost, so you are looking at roughly £5bn of income from the model. Development costs - say £250mn. For that £40k selling price, figure on £30k being "costs", so £1,800,000,000. That is £600mn difference, take out the 250 for development and you are looking at roughly £300 - £350mn of profit.

Throw in the Cayman and you double the sales for what...15% fraction on the development costs, lets make it a round £300mn then for development costs over both models. Over the Cayman run of 2 x 4 yrs, use the Boxster figures as a rough guide and you basically double the amounts. Profits then over the 8 yrs run of the Box and Cayman are looking at about £700mn.

Worth it? Just a little bit.

After_Shock

8,751 posts

219 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
I wonder if the 911 turbo is still singly the most profitable model they make?

Im sure the 911 still makes them alot of money in profit however, parts sharing with the boxster and cayman spreads the costs of many parts making the 911 more profitable still. Even if they broke even on the boxster/cayman it still makes them alot of money indirectly.

Numeric

1,393 posts

150 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
I think the sports cars are safe - you could almost call them Advertising for the brand - how many Cayenne would sell without the sports cars? I guess they wash their face and a fair bit more, so you get advertising and money back - happy days!!

Also underpins how clever old Wendelin Wiedeking was - always had a soft spot and while the words "he saved the company" are often overused I suspect those who love Porsches have a great deal to thank the guy for!

Yorkshirepud

136 posts

183 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
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Even if they lost a bit of money on the sports cars, anyone say loss leader? Works fine for supermarkets.

Great Pretender

26,140 posts

213 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
Davey S2 said:
As Mr Harris said previously I don't care what ugly, heavy 4x4's or Panemeras they build and flog to China. If it gives them the cash to make cars like the GT3RS and 918 then thats fine with me.
Those sales figures for the sports cars are shockingly low, how long will the accountants indulgence this folly?

worrying ..
Not really. Those who buy the 'cash cow' products are doing so on the back of the Porsche sporting pedigree. Ergo, Porsche need to have a sports car(s) in its line-up to sell more 4x4s.

Win win for everyone.

Carrera RSR

26 posts

165 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
I'd love to see the sales stats per model per year for the last 20 years (or more). I bet they are not selling that many more new 911's since they were in financial trouble in the early 90's. The Boxster saved them in the late 90's as the purists (and keyboard warriors) complained the 911 was going water cooled. All the growth in the last 10 years must of been mainly from Cayenne and now Panamera. Anyone got a link to a graph/stats?

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

245 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
"No, the really surprising thing is just how few sports cars Porsche now sells - of the nearly 13,000 cars it built in November just a smidge over 2,000 were 911s. And just 1,200 were Boxsters."

Quite.

I am the one in ten.


kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
DJRC said:
kambites said:
Makes me wonder whether it's really worth them producing the Boxster, too. For a company that big, a car sitting on a bespoke platform that only sells 1200 a month, a couple of months after release can't be making much profit? Given how much of their market is China, and how little interest the Chinese have in sports cars, the question has got to be on somebody's mind.
12 x 12 = 15,000 a yr roughly.
15,000 x 4 = 60,000 for a 4 yr model run
60,000 x £40,000 (an average price) = £2,400,000,000

Its doing a lot of cost sharing with the 911, its facelift for the 2nd half of its run will be fairly minimal cost, so you are looking at roughly £5bn of income from the model. Development costs - say £250mn. For that £40k selling price, figure on £30k being "costs", so £1,800,000,000. That is £600mn difference, take out the 250 for development and you are looking at roughly £300 - £350mn of profit.

Throw in the Cayman and you double the sales for what...15% fraction on the development costs, lets make it a round £300mn then for development costs over both models. Over the Cayman run of 2 x 4 yrs, use the Boxster figures as a rough guide and you basically double the amounts. Profits then over the 8 yrs run of the Box and Cayman are looking at about £700mn.

Worth it? Just a little bit.
There's no way they'll maintain 1200 a month for the whole model run if they're getting that on the first few months of a brand new model. I think averaging half that would be optimistic, so say 7000 a year for seven years (the lifetime of the last one) = ~50,000 cars over seven years; so say 2.5bn revenue over 7 years = 360m a year. A substantial amount of money, but with the West in decline and the East growing at a huge rate, I wouldn't be surprised if the Boxster's days are numbered. frown

The 911 will survive though; it's too much of a halo model to ditch even if they somehow stopped making a profit on it.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 12th December 14:47

The Don of Croy

5,975 posts

158 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
Ozzie Osmond said:
I am the one in ten.
"A statistical reminder of a world that doesn't care."

beeej

1,400 posts

192 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
Of course its worth producing the Boxster, they make a killing on it. Seen the costs of the options? It's like a bloody Audi...

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
beeej said:
Of course its worth producing the Boxster, they make a killing on it. Seen the costs of the options? It's like a bloody Audi...
Do you know that, or are you speculating? I didn't think Porsche published the profit margins on individual models?

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Wednesday 12th December 2012
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Is that much of the design shared, then?