Tuesday 26th February 2013

Spotted: Nissan Skyline GT-R (R32)

A superb Skyline has Monkey pondering the meaning of a car's value

---

Among the more frequently visited topics within the wider school of the used car transaction is the notion of what something is worth. Come to think of it, however much we might want to deny it, the whole used car game is based on this one central tenet - and yet the mechanism for deciding the monetary value isn’t as straightforward as people would like to imagine.

Is this Skyline worth the money?

For newer cars there are trade guides outlining suggested prices, but even these are frequently wrong and fall into the trap of reflecting recent tendencies as opposed to what they should be doing: defining them in advance of any transactions.  

The best-known guides during the period at the end of 2008 and early 2009 made hilarious reading (OK, to me they did). Everything lumpy or exotic fell of a cliff, and then as stocks ran dry and demand rose in January 2009, they rocketed upwards again. The guides were months behind and you mostly had to ignore them.

But the fact is, a car – any car – is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it at the moment they transact. And this is why I often have to count to 100 when I’m trying to strike a deal and my opponent says, “it’s worth more than that.”

Get it bought, Monkey!

Because it isn’t. If the assertion was “I think it’s worth more than that”, then I wouldn’t take any issue, because everyone has a right to an opinion. Forget what any guide, expert or journalist says, the machinery is only worth the amount the potential buyer is willing to pay for it. It goes without saying that the vendor always can always reserve the right not to sell for that price.

I think the cleverest people always buy cars according to this rule. They work out what they would be happy paying. More often than not they are the ones people feel have overpaid for something, and five years later draw large profits having spotted a sleeper before the rest of us.

Where is this going? No idea. Well, rather sadly (and seeing as we're talking about GT-Rs today) it brings me back to an R32 Skyline I was admiring in the classifieds last night. I really must buy one or stop stalking them. Anyways, this one is quite expensive for a 20-year-old Datsun – £11,395.

Famed RB26DETT best when tweaked

Initially this had me tutting and telling myself “it’s never worth that much”.  This rank hypocrisy on my part I will need to excuse through tiredness, because if it checks out in the flesh and produces the claimed power, this car is easily worth the money.

I’ve been banging on about these for a while now, but the R32 is one of the most significant Japanese performance cars. It created a legacy that has outshone and outlasted the NSX. In fact take a look at the template for modern fast cars and despite Mr Trent’s excellent thesis on how Audi is responsible for the recipe, he was in fact wrong because Nissan was doing it 10 years earlier.

So it’s iconic, it appears to be beautifully modified, it has a power-to-weight ratio that could trouble many a modern,  and to my strange aesthetic senses, it looks perfectly Japanese.

Straighter edges less fussy than later Skylines

So the question I have to ask myself is: would it be worth £11.5K to me? Compared to other cars I’ve owned for similar money, absolutely. The only real unknown is how these modified GT-Rs will fare over time compared to the very few unaltered cars out there. Experience tells you that tampering reduces long-term value, but the R32’s legend is based almost entirely on it being boosted at every possible opportunity. So to me it’s one of the few cars that, assuming the mods are good, can sustain them in the marketplace.

Next week: the £27,000 E39 M5, and why it’s good value. That’s a joke, by the way. I think.

---

NISSAN SKYLINE GT-R (R32)
Engine: 2,568cc 6-cyl turbo
Transmission: 5-speed manual
Power (hp): 280
Torque(lb ft): 271
MPG: N/A
CO2: N/A
First registered: 1994
Recorded mileage: 39,091
Price new: N/A
Yours for: £11,395

[Terror Factor]

I'd like to see a proper video of you in a R32, comparing it to something more modern (m135i maybe?)!

(or to another classic performance car, E36 M3 maybe? Maybe just compare them both! "cheapish" fast new BMW vs fast old BMW vs Godzilla!)

Edited by Terror Factor on Tuesday 26th February 12:17

[GolfSupplierAU]

Awesome machine, I wonder how much power that's pushing out though

[Lanxx]

Lovely, fascinated by these as a kid, and still like the look of them now.

[Loplop]

R32s (Clean ones at least) will only go up in value.

They're the Japanese 3 Door Cosworth, only without the reliability issues.

[Andy616]

This one already sold a couple of days ago.

[Cable]

After having had an R33 GTR some years ago and an R32 GTST as my current track car, I find myself lusting after one of these more and more. A good friend recently bought a very clean, black R32 GTR, for similar money and I have to say it is worth every penny.
You'd think that a car that was designged in the '80's would look dated, but quite the opposite; it has more pressence than anything currently being produced, barring say a C63 Black. It's relative light weight and mild modifications would still give a lot of newer performance cars a run for their money.

[365daytonafan]

Your thoughts on car value are well said Chris.

[Ved]

I'd be very interested to know if anyone has one as a daily driver doing 15k a year. No reason a good one won't be reliable.

[Benjaminbopper]

To own an icon for less than £12k that has performance in such quantities is excellent value. The consideration is that of it's role in your garage, it would never pass as a daily but would compliment a bluemotion golf perfectly!

[wheedler]

Terror Factor said:

I'd like to see a proper video of you in a R32, comparing it to something more modern (m135i maybe?)!

(or to another classic performance car, E36 M3 maybe? Maybe just compare them both! "cheapish" fast new BMW vs fast old BMW vs Godzilla!)

Edited by Terror Factor on Tuesday 26th February 12:17

This is a very good idea

[Bear Phils]

Dammit, stop highlighting people to cars I want in the future. I need their values to stay low

[Devil2575]

365daytonafan said:

Your thoughts on car value are well said Chris.

Indeed. Sadly many sellers don't seem to get it.

I was chatting with a bloke at work who has been trying to sell his Manual BMW 330d Msport. By rights it should be an easy car to sell except that he is valuing it based on how much he paid from a main dealer 1 year ago. He just doesn't get that as a private sale it isn't worth that much.

[Guvernator]

Have to agree with you Chris, I think all the previous gen GT-R's are undervalued but especially the R32's, £12k is an absolute bargain for this car IMO. They really are one of the best things to come out of Japan.

However I still think a mint, unmolested and original R32 V-spec II will be the better long term investment. I know these cars beg to be modded but this always has an effect on future values. I think the best bet for a decent return might be to buy a modded one to use but keep the original parts in storage so that you can sell off the parts and return it to factory spec come resale time.

Oh and R34 prices have also been rock solid for ages and I think well looked after ones will start to creep up too, late Nur or V-Spec II's are already worth more than their newer R35 siblings.

[Uriel]

I don't have £12k, but I'd stab a tramp for that car!

[eliotrw]

I think its worth every penny.

RS Fords though....
Most of them arent even any good and all of them are expensive.

[Cable]

Guvernator said:

Oh and R34 prices have also been rock solid for ages and I think well looked after ones will start to creep up too, late Nur or V-Spec II's are already worth more than their newer R35 siblings.

Agreed, if anything they've actually creeped up. Last of the RB engined GTR's. I know I'd prefer an R34 over an R35, but after many years of dreaming about one I'm actually finding myself prefering the R32 now.

[TameRacingDriver]

Guvernator said:

Have to agree with you Chris, I think all the previous gen GT-R's are undervalued but especially the R32's, £12k is an absolute bargain for this car IMO. They really are one of the best things to come out of Japan.

In keeping with the spirit of the article, obviously not everyone agrees with you, or it would be worth more.

[samoht]

The only real answer I can think of to the over/under priced debate is evidence, in the form of other comparable cars currently for sale. If you could buy a better example of the same model for less, then a car is objectively over-priced.

Otherwise you get into the general question of prices for a model, e.g. 'NSXs are overpriced'. Which generally means 'I want an NSX, but I can't afford one / don't want to pay as much as other people are willing to pay'.

[RX7]

A hot topic discussed on probably 90 + % of every car forum up and down this country, "what is my car worth"!

I guess Monkey has it spot on, its only worth what someone is willing to pay, but in this day and age i think that statement is broad as it is long.

The cash buyer seems a rare thing, if ever i have advertised anything in the last couple of years the vast percentage of enquiries have been, part ex for this/that or whatever, low ball offers of "x" in cash collect tomorrow, as if there are are other ways of paying a private buyer (ok there is paypal but most people these days require a buyer to "cover the fees"), what are people expecting to pay in, bottle tops perhaps! I guess there are people who accept the cash offer either as they are in need or would just prefer the money in their pocket to do the same on their up and coming purchase, rather than submit to possible months worth of advertising and replying to the will you take my fantastic car at knock down price that i have also had advertised for months or some random enquiries and offers of all sort of things, boats, jet skis, motorbikes, caravans etc etc, i have had them all.

I am in the market for a particular car at the moment, the difference in price on the same model, year, spec (relatively) is staggering, up to and beyond 75%.

The Japanese performance market is flat on its back. Cars with great spec (similar to the above) will usually end up being broken for spares as the return is often better than the car as a whole. A friend of mine recently had a single turbo Rx7 for sale, couldnt get the 10k, 9k then 8k wanted so broke and returned 12k!!

The question on everyones lips as per Monkey, is, when will car such as these demand their value again?

[RenesisEvo]

Article said:

Next week: the £27,000 E39 M5, and why it’s good value. That’s a joke, by the way. I think.

BMW Approved Used currently have in stock an E39 M5 with less than 30k miles under its wheels - list price £24,995. No idea whether that's genuinely good value or outrageously over-priced, but if you kept the miles down it may not depreciate too much.