GRE: Car set-up basics: part two

GRE: Car set-up basics: part two

Thursday 12th September 2013

Car set-up basics: part two

Sean puts his new set-up skills to the test on his own car



Armed with a notepad full of knowledge from my car set-up day at BR Racing and a toolkit bursting with spanners and sockets, I set to work perfecting the set-up on my own track day car, an MK Indy R.

Mass and set-up key with 450kg Indy R
Mass and set-up key with 450kg Indy R
I've dabbled with car set-up before after reading forums and books. But having a practical demonstration really brings home how awful car setup can badly affect handling. So dialling in neutral settings - as advocated by BR Racing when trying to work towards a set-up during my tuition - gave me a baseline to work from. Following that, it was a case of tweak, test and repeat.

Junk in the trunk
Before now, I'd run the rear dampers softer on the road in an attempt to give a bit more compliance. This was a mistake. The car's front-mid engine layout and 450kg mass (the engine and gearbox weighing not much over 65kg) means adding two occupants and a tank of fuel towards the rear is a significant proportion of extra mass, making the nose go light.

As a result, unless you trail the brake on turn-in to weight up the front, it can feel understeery, with not that much bite at corner entry and a tendency to wander wide as you pick up the throttle. My fault entirely due to poor set-up, not the car's.

The rear dampers were stiffened initially to try and cure this. Compression and rebound is on one circuit, but it should at least give me some more support at the back in theory. In turn this will stop the car pitching as much from the rear axle under load and over bumps.

.
.
Stiffening up
After going stiffer on the rear, progressively winding the adjusters to nine out of 13 clicks (originally on five) I achieved a decent balance - it felt more planted, less like it wanted to pogo around or roll from the rear, and more composed as a result. But the front still didn't quite have the bite I wanted.

Adding the mass of a driver and passenger to the static setup the Indy R was still probably 'nose-up', so I wanted to try and get it with a slight rake while loaded to tip more weight over the front axle. I increased the ride height at the back by 10mm (no point in lowering the front, the sump's already been cracked once...) and the car did feel pointier. But it could be a bit more extreme, as I'm not bothered about comfort on road given the benefits it brings on track.

Step by step
So rather than just chucking negative camber and toe out at the front end, I worked through it methodically, one change at a time. Make multiple adjustments and you won't be able to diagnose what has made the car better or worse, so you'll be lost - do one thing at a time, recording your changes as you go, and you'll have a good idea where the improvement (hopefully) has come from, allowing you to address the next set-up change.

Firmer rear dampers aided composure
Firmer rear dampers aided composure
I started with one degree of toe out to help neutralise the understeer on turn-in, but there was still a bit of mid-corner slip from the fronts in faster bends. That meant adding more negative camber.

Dialling in a degree and a half of negative camber at the front meant that as the chassis loads up and the car rolls, the tyre becomes flatter to the Tarmac, maximising the contact patch when you most need the grip.

Running -1.5 degrees (or thereabouts) certainly helped and the car felt hooked onto a line in quicker constant and closing radius corners, without ruining the balance of the car.

Overall the geometry and damping adjustments have made a massive difference even on road, proving how small set-up changes can transform the feel of a car. I'm pleased with the result too, as without splashing out on expensive modifications my car now performs much better with just a bit of time, effort and knowledge. A success, then.

 

Author
Discussion

garypotter

Original Poster:

1,499 posts

150 months

Thursday 12th September 2013
quotequote all
Good story, please keep the info rolling in.

Ian974

2,939 posts

199 months

Thursday 12th September 2013
quotequote all
Good to have a story along these lines on the front page, and a bit more of the reasoning behind making changes, rather than just a 'how to' guide

Agent Orange

2,194 posts

246 months

Thursday 12th September 2013
quotequote all
Good info and will read more when at home. Where can I find part one?

status

251 posts

217 months

Thursday 12th September 2013
quotequote all
Agent Orange said:
Good info and will read more when at home. Where can I find part one?
Here I think....

IndecisiveJames

227 posts

171 months

Friday 13th September 2013
quotequote all
Enjoyed this! Thumbs up. More of the same please!

sanctum

191 posts

175 months

Friday 13th September 2013
quotequote all
[quote]Make multiple adjustments and you won't be able to diagnose what has made the car better or worse
[/quote]
Not true,what you'll miss with that approach is how the different changes interact with each other. But it's a good place to start and should mean you get it more right than wrong.

Roono

43 posts

159 months

Friday 13th September 2013
quotequote all
I had a Robin Hood (7 replica) kit car once, and that was based on a Sierra running gear. Problem was the suspension & anti-roll bars were expecting 1000 ish kg to be compressing it down. Not 600ish kg.

From memory it had a Sierra Estate front anti-roll bar (so thicker than normal). Thing was so stiff both wheels used to just go up-&-down together! Not independantly!

This was changed for a rose jointed tie bar arrangement a Club Member sold, and the result was that now the front wheels moved independantly of each other. Much better :-)

I WISH

874 posts

200 months

Friday 13th September 2013
quotequote all
Interesting piece.

Don't really know why ...... but it reminded me of the fact that Colin Chapman .... and pretty much all subsequent set up geniuses at Lotus .... have generally extolled the virtues of (relatively) softly sprung but well damped when it comes to suspension.

Certainly seems to work on the Elise. Handles wonderfully well but still feels fairly compliant.

It can often be a mistake to go too hard .... if you'll pardon the expression!

sperm

rob.e

2,861 posts

278 months

Friday 13th September 2013
quotequote all
Great article.

On my previous car i made it faster with a re-map but kept the suspension pretty stock. On the new one I'm running at stock power levels but instead i've made a bunch of chassis changes (arb's/geometry/lighter components etc) which has made the car much more enjoyable on twisty roads - its a much better car than the last one as a result.

dinkel

26,938 posts

258 months

Friday 13th September 2013
quotequote all
I WISH said:
Interesting piece.

It can often be a mistake to go too hard .... if you'll pardon the expression!

sperm
I've learnt from historic racers to set up RWD saloons - Cortinas and all that - quite stiff up front and soft at the rear. It looks odd but it works well in corners. One need to slide anyways.

5lab

1,654 posts

196 months

Friday 13th September 2013
quotequote all
article said:
with a slight rake while loaded to tip more weight over the front axle
whilst I can see that having a car raked forwards can do all sorts of things to the handling (by adjusting castor angles and so on) - surely any weight difference is basically negligible? with the couple of degrees that are likely going to be talked about here, you're surely only shifting the COG by 10ths of percent?

can any of the resident beards explain what I'm missing?

Mave

8,208 posts

215 months

Friday 13th September 2013
quotequote all
5lab said:
article said:
with a slight rake while loaded to tip more weight over the front axle
whilst I can see that having a car raked forwards can do all sorts of things to the handling (by adjusting castor angles and so on) - surely any weight difference is basically negligible? with the couple of degrees that are likely going to be talked about here, you're surely only shifting the COG by 10ths of percent?

can any of the resident beards explain what I'm missing?
I was just pondering the same thing....

weed

211 posts

241 months

Saturday 14th September 2013
quotequote all
How about the influence of tyre pressures on the handling balance of the Light weight car?
I use a live axle seven clone for track days. when running with a passenger, I raise the rear tyre pressures by 2 psi to combat the increase in understeer.


m

anonymous-user

54 months

Saturday 14th September 2013
quotequote all
A good, albeit slightly worrying article as it makes me realise how little I know about this subject in practical terms. My "approach" has always been to adjust my driving style to the inadequacies of the particular car ...

crofty1984

15,851 posts

204 months

Sunday 15th September 2013
quotequote all
More articles like this please - Really interesting. smile

dinkel

26,938 posts

258 months

Saturday 28th September 2013
quotequote all
tommy1973s said:
A good, albeit slightly worrying article as it makes me realise how little I know about this subject in practical terms. My "approach" has always been to adjust my driving style to the inadequacies of the particular car ...
crofty1984 said:
More articles like this please - Really interesting. smile
Indeed, please do. Maybe invite racers, tuition guys to say / write stuff about the subject.

As I said: I've learnt so incredibly much from these guys.