Friday 4th February 2005

Which is faster, Porsche or Ferrari?

Chris Mellor compares the two marques over the years

---

Chalk and cheese? Or just two products from the same mould? 

Ferrari and Porsche are Italian and German sides of the same coin, interpretations of the sportscar idea. Both founded by a dominant patriarch, both honed in racing, both more th an 50 years old, both with engineering and styling integrity.

Ferrari owners know they have special cars – the best, the most charismatic in the world. Porsche owners think their cars can be as good as Ferraris, but ‘the world’ doesn’t think so. Let’s try to compare the various road cars these manufacturers have made over the last twenty years or so and see if we can draw some conclusions about which is fastest: faster to 60 mph; and with the highest top speed.

The data is taken from guides produced by Sportscar Guides. Starting with the water-cooled Porsches, the 2 litre Porsche 924 is not in the Ferrari league at all, and neither is today’s Boxster. We’ll ignore these two cars and start with the 944 and Ferrari’s 308.

1982: 944 vs 308GTBi Quattrovalvole

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Porsche 944	2+2, inline 4, 2.5 litres	163	151	7.2	137
Ferrari 308 GTB/Si Quattrovalvole	2-seat, V8, 2.9 litres	240	210	6.8	145+

These cars are not directly comparable, the 308 eating the 944 for lunch and dinner too. The 944’s engine is a paltry thing compared to the Ferrari V8.

1983: 928 vs 400

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari 400i (A) GT	2+2 V12 4.823 litres auto	315	210	<8	149
Porsche 928 S2	2+2 V8 4.664 litres auto	310	295	6.4	158

The 928, wipes the floor with the 400i. Ferrari’s 400 has shorter legs, losing out both on the 0-60mph time and top speed – but the Porsche, at 1,453Kg, was 430Kg lighter.

Although these cars are both 2+2s the 400 has much more cabin room than the 928 which is a 2+tiny2 compared to the near four-seater 400. The 928 is a sportscar version of a 2+2, whereas the 400i leans more towards a short-cabin saloon idea of a 2+2. The 400i is also a 12-cylinder engine whereas the 928 is a V8. Let’s compare it with a Ferrari V8 2+2.

1983: 928 vs Mondial

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari Mondial QV	2+2 V8 2.926 litres	240	192	7.6	149
Porsche 928 S2	2+2 V8 4.664 litres auto	310	295	6.4	158

The Porsche engine at 4.6 litres is much bigger than the 3 litre Mondial QV’s unit. The Ferrari has lower power and torque outputs and the acceleration and top speed numbers are inferior to the Porsche. Again the comparison is not good for Ferrari. But then, the Mondial is not regarded as one of the faster Ferraris.

Moving on to air-cooled Porsches, the 911s...

1982: 911 SC vs 308 GTBi

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari 308 GTB/i	2-seat V8 2.9 litres mid-mount	240	210	6.8	145+
Porsche 911 SC	2+2 flat 6 3.0 litres rear-mount, air-cooled	204	195	5.7	148

The Porsche with its larger engine, by 100cc, puts out less power and has less torque yet out-accelerates the Ferrari and goes faster at the top end too. The 308 looks almost pedestrian.

1982: 911 Turbo vs 512i BB

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari 512i BB	2-seat F12 4.941 litres mid-mount	340	333	5.6	174
Porsche 911 Turbo	2+2 flat 6 3.3 litres rear-mount, air-cooled	300	303	5.1	160

But here we see a different pattern. Porsche’s turbo out-accelerates the 12-cylinder Ferrari to 60mph but then falls significantly behind at the top end.

1987: 959 vs F40

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari F40	2.936 litre twin-turbo V8 mid-mount	478	425	3.9	202
Porsche 959	2.852 litre twin-turbo flat-6 rear mount air-cooled (cyl heads water-cooled)	450	678	3.6	198+

Porsche’s 959 supercar had astounding performance to 60mph, courtesy of a fantastically high torque figure, but the F40 had a higher top speed. This is the same pattern as with the 911 Turbo/512i BB comparison.  

1988: 944 Turbo vs 328 GTB

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari 328 GTB	3.2 litre V8 mid-mount	270	224	5.8	163
Porsche 944 Turbo	2.5 litre 4-cyl front mount	250	258	5.5	161

The 944 Turbo is slightly faster to 60mph but has a slightly slower top speed. Once again a turbo gets to 60mph quicker than a normally-aspirated Ferrari but has a shade slower top speed.

1989: 911 964 vs 348

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari 348	2-seat V8 3.4 litres mid-mount	300	238	5.5	172
Porsche 911 (964)	2+2 flat 6 3.6 litres rear mount, air-cooled	250	228	5.3	161

This 911 did a good job compared to the V8 Ferrari. It out-raced it to 60mph, and no doubt beyond, but then ran out of legs and the Ferrari had 11mph more top speed. After this, normally aspirated 911s wouldn’t out-pace Ferraris again though.

1989: 911 Turbo vs Testarossa

 

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari Testarossa	2-seat flat 12 4.94 litres mid-mount	390	354	5.3	181
Porsche 911 Turbo	2+2 flat 6 3.3 litres rear mount, air-cooled	300	321	<5	165

The turbo out-raced the Testarossa to 60 and beyond but then ran out of legs with the Testatarossa flying past it to log an extra 16mph.

1994: 911 993 vs F355

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari F355	2-seat V8 3.5 litres mid-mount	380	268	4.6	183
Porsche 911 (993)	2+2 flat 6 3.6 litres rear mount, air-cooled	272	243	5.2	168

Here we see Ferrari humbling the 911. It is slower to 60mph by over half a second and 15mph slower at the top end too.

1995: 911 Turbo vs F512M

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari F512M	2-seat flat 12 5 litres mid-mount	440	369	4.6	196
Porsche 911 (993) Turbo	2+2 flat 6 3.6 litres rear mount, air-cooled, twin-turbo	408	400	4.4	180

The turbo though is back on what’s becoming familiar ground. Out accelerating the V12 to 60mph and then losing out by 16mph at the top end.

1998: 996 vs 360 Modena

The normally aspirated 996 is demolished by the 360. The extra 200cc engine capacity seems to give the Ferrari nearly a second’s advantage to 60mph and 14mph extra maximum speed.

1998: 996 Turbo vs 550 Maranello

Model	Description	BHP	Torque (lb-ft)	0-60mph (secs)	Top speed (mph)
Ferrari 550 Maranello	2-seat V12 5.5 litres front-mount	485	568	4.3	199
Porsche 911 (996) Turbo	2+2 flat 6 3.4 litres rear mount, water-cooled, twin-turbo	420	413	4.2	189

Once again the 911 turbo out-accelerates the Ferrari to 60mph, but only just, and is then 10mph slower at the top end.

The 996 Turbo is the performance equal of Ferrari’s 360 Modena though, bettering it slightly to 60mph and the equal in maximum speed.

Which is quickest?

• Non-turbo Porsches are generally out-gunned by Ferraris – but not by Mondial
• 944 Turbo is faster than 308 GTB - it’s respectable.
• Normally-aspirated 911s can’t keep up with Ferraris after the 964.
• 911 Turbos out-accelerate 8- and 12-cyl Ferraris to 60mph but lose out on top speed
• 911 Turbos are roughly equivalent to V8 Ferraris.

The short answer is Ferrari in terms of top speed and 911 Turbos in terms of 0-60 time. Porsches for acceleration; Ferraris for the highest possible speed.

Chalk and cheese? Not really. Rosso Corsa and Guards Red – two hues of the same basic colour.

Links

www.sportscarguides.com

www2.uk.porsche.com/english/gbr/home.htm

www.ferrariworld.com/FWorld/fw/index.jsp 

[Thom]

Interesting.
It may be worthwhile to add real world performance figures such as in-gear 50 mph - 120 mph acceleration times.

PS : I drove this car

[_DeeJay_]

Surely 0-60 of supercars is completely academic?
0-100 would be a (slightly) better measure but would put the Ferrari's ahead....

[anniesdad]

That's not a 512 BBi !!


"Porsche owners think their cars can be as good as Ferraris"....eh? In what way? Pound for pound the Porkers are better cars than Fezzars....aren't they?

It's not been very well edited this article. That's a 575M in the article, not a 550.

308 GTBi..eh?

>> Edited by anniesdad on Friday 4th February 15:43

[lanciachris]

Interesting, but I would have come to the conclusion they are both 'fast enough' instead.

[nonegreen]

They may well be both fast enough but the Ferraris break and they look dated unless they are new but then I am biased.

[SimonHarrod911]

I knew I shouldn't have read this.

Contemptible piece of work.

Porsche can build WHATEVER they want to build. They choose to make useable performance cars.

Apart from all the mistakes which have already been highlighted, the article lacks one MASSIVE item of data, critical to produce an objective comparision.

Price.



>> Edited by SimonHarrod911 on Friday 4th February 16:06

[Davey S1]

Performance figures for any car should be taken with a large pinch of salt.

0-60 figure is not the most relevant of times to pick anyway.

For long term use and abuse with bullet proff mechanics and build get a porker. If you want stunning looks with a huge sense of occasion when you drive it buy a fezzer.

[MEMSDesign]

SimonHarrod911 said:

I knew I shouldn't have read this. Contemptible piece of work. Porsche can build WHATEVER they want to build. They choose to make useable performance cars. Apart from all the mistakes which have already been highlighted, the article lacks one MASSIVE item of data, critical to produce an objective comparision. Price.

Chill .

[tinman0]

porsche vs ferrari is nothing to do with performance.

it has everything to do with production numbers and exclusivity.

[SimonHarrod911]

MEMSDesign said:

SimonHarrod911 said: I knew I shouldn't have read this. Contemptible piece of work. Porsche can build WHATEVER they want to build. They choose to make useable performance cars. Apart from all the mistakes which have already been highlighted, the article lacks one MASSIVE item of data, critical to produce an objective comparision. Price. Chill .

That's what my therapist keeps saying!

soon!

[John Nowak]

Can't believe I wasted time reading that.

[Chris944]

Author here - (enter defensive mode)

I found this quite a difficult piece to write because at first I didn't have any idea how to compare/contrast Ferraris and Porsches in a reasonable number of words. So I did it at a basic level - 0-60 and max speed - and then tried to see which Porsche models were equivalent to which Ferraris.

I haven't seen this done before, and certainly haven't seen that pattern emerging of turbo Porsches being faster accelerating than equivalent year Ferraris but losing out on maximum speed.

Also the point that post-964 911s are slower than 8-and 12-cylinder Ferraris was a tad surprising.

I know it's simplistic and I know there is a much more detailed driving comparison(s) to be done and a much more detailed marque characteristics comparison to be done - looking at price, reliability and styling. But I didn't set out to do that. There isn't enough space in a typical Pistonheads piece.

So I just did the basics and got the different models placed in a 0-60 and top speed box. Hopefully it was worthwhile. If not then I'll get in my MX-5 and drive off sobbing.

Chris.

[v8thunder]

Hmmm. I find there's not much to compare to Ferrari. The Porsche-Ferrari comparisons are limited by the fact that Ferrari tend to prefer bringing out new models, whereas Porsche prefer the development approach.

Personally, I find comparing Porsche and Lotus more revealing, seeing as both started by making lightweight competition roadster versions of modified saloon cars, and it all took off from there. Both companies have always been about development and power-to-weight, rather than overall power. Try this:

Lotus Six - Porsche 356
Lotus 8/9/10/11 - Porsche RS/RSK series
Lotus 23 - Porsche 550
Lotus Elite - Porsche 356 Coupe
Lotus Seven S1/S2/S3 - Porsche 356 A/B/C
Lotus Super Seven - Porsche 356 Speedster
Lotus MKVII SS - Porsche 356 Carrera 2
Ford Lotus Cortina - Beutler VW Porsche Type 4
Lotus Elan S1/S2/S3/S4 - Porsche 911S/L/T/E 2.0
Lotus Europa - Porsche 914
Lotus Europa TC - Porsche 914-6
Lotus Europa 47R - Porsche 914-6 Rally
Lotus Elan Sprint - Porsche 911 2.4
Lotus Elan 62S - Porsche 911 Carrera RS
Lotus Elite - Porsche 928
Lotus Eclat - Porsche 924
Lotus Esprit S1/S2 - Porsche 911G/930
Lotus Eclat S2 - Porsche 924S
Lotus Elite S2 - Porsche 928S
Lotus Turbo Esprit - Porsche 911 Turbo
Lotus Esprit S3 - Porsche 911SC
Lotus Excel - Porsche 944
Lotus Esprit Turbo - Porsche 911 Carrera
Lotus Esprit X180-R - Porsche 959
Lotus Esprit Sport 300 - Porsche Carrera Club Sport
Lotus Elan SE - Porsche 968
Lotus Elan S2 - Porsche 968 Club Sport
Vauxhall Lotus Carlton - Audi RS2 Avant Porsche
Lotus Esprit S4 - Porsche 911 962
Lotus Esprit GT3 - Porsche 911 GT3
Lotus Esprit S4S - Porsche 911 Carrera 2
Lotus Esprit V8GT - Porsche 996 Turbo
Lotus Esprit V8TT - Porsche 996 TT
Lotus Elise - Porsche Boxster
Lotus Exige - Porsche Boxster S
Lotus Elise GT1 - Porsche 911 GT1
Lotus Isuzu Trooper - Porsche Cayenne
Proton Satria GTI Lotus - Seat Ibiza System Porsche

Of course, there seems to have been an end brought about to this conflict - Lotus has yet to answer the 997, Porsche haven't pared down the Boxster into a counter to the 340R, and as for this year's Lotus-fettled Vauxhall BTCC challenger, Porsche haven't tuned anyone's saloons for a while. Watch this space...

>> Edited by v8thunder on Friday 4th February 17:25

[FesterNath]

I'd like to know what criteria was used to determine which car squared up to which. Wouldn't a 911 Turbo been a more suitable to compare to the 360? Similar price, power, market sector...

[Melv]

I know what I'd prefer when:

a) you get to a corner, and

b) you get it serviced......

Mel

[wezo]

Couldn't agree more Melv, the Ferrari for the driving, the Porsche for the cheapness of the servicing costs )

[flemke]

wezo said:

Couldn't agree more Melv, the Ferrari for the driving...

So far as I am aware, fastest published laptimes at the Nordschleife are:

996 GT2 - 7:46
996 GT3 RS - 7:47
996 GT3 (std) - 7:54
360 Challenge Stradale - 7:56

996 Turbo (std) - 7:56
575 Maranello - 8:05
550 Maranello - 8:07
360 Modena (std) - 8:09

993 Turbo 8:12
996 C2 - 8:17
F355 - 8:18

To my eye, the most surprising thing about these statistics is that, apparently, each of the Ferraris was able to complete an entire lap.

[wezo]

Interesting lap times and those Turbos sure are quick, as opposed to the sense of occassion etc with the Fezza.

Just three little letters though - RMS, although I don't believe the Turbos suffer so much, neither marque is perfect.....

[flemke]

Sorry for my ignorance - what does "RMS" stand for?

[johnny senna]

flemke said:

Sorry for my ignorance - what does "RMS" stand for?

Rear Main (oil) Seal.

It is "possibly" an issue on 996s (but not GT3s and Turbos), Boxsters and 997s.

Regardless of this, Porkers are far cheaper to run and are far more reliable than Fezzas. We all know this.

Do a search on RMS on the Porker forum for more info.

Why the article compared standard Carreras to the Fezzas instead of the 911 Turbos (which cost the same) I don't know.