Expensive engines
Discussion
I assume this means the cost to a customer, rather than the actual production costs would be rather different 
Casting, machining, toughening processes, assembly. All these are needed for a car engine.
Its just the badges that are so expensive
ps. I recognise more advanced engines use more expensive materials and processes, but the difference is not that much to justify the price.
Casting, machining, toughening processes, assembly. All these are needed for a car engine.
Its just the badges that are so expensive
ps. I recognise more advanced engines use more expensive materials and processes, but the difference is not that much to justify the price.
lanciachris said:
Its just the badges that are so expensive
Very presumptuous...
The GT3 engine is hand-built and derived from the Le Mans winning GT1 engine, it is a true racing engine and Porsche is famous for "complaining" that the profit margin on GT3s was small because of the enormous cost of the engine. There is not a lot of profit built into that £28K (except for the tax-man's cut).
The engine has lightweight titanium con-rods and these alongside the main bearing journals and crankshaft are plasma-nitride hardened. Couple that with dry-sump lubrication and the fact that the engine is massively de-tuned for production (yet still gets the car to 60mph in 3.9s) and you will start to realise why the GT3 is such an incredible machine.
Oh, and the gearbox is about £10-12K worth.
Compare that to a "normal" 996/997/Boxster engine which is around £7K to replace and that is telling you quite a lot about the engineering effort in this engine.
DaGinge said:
Compare that to a "normal" 996/997/Boxster engine which is around £7K to replace and that is telling you quite a lot about the engineering effort in this engine.
Have to disagree there, DaGinge. As someone whose Boxster S engine disintegrated six months ago, i can testify that it costs £11000 to replace it!!
Those hardening treatments are widely used, dry sump lubrication costs about £1500 - to the customer to retrofit to an existing engine, set of 6 titanium connecting rods = ~£600, again to the customer.
If they are trying to recoup the costs of developing the racers engine thatd explain it, but if they are just paying for the cost of reengineering it for road use you couldnt justify that price.
If they are trying to recoup the costs of developing the racers engine thatd explain it, but if they are just paying for the cost of reengineering it for road use you couldnt justify that price.
lanciachris said:
Those hardening treatments are widely used, dry sump lubrication costs about £1500 - to the customer to retrofit to an existing engine, set of 6 titanium connecting rods = ~£600, again to the customer.
I would hazard a guess and say it is more likely to be nearer £600 per rod than for a set of 6. I've pulled out every trick I can think of to get the cost of mine down and even with the supplier paying for most of it now I am still looking at a £500 bill for a set of four.
On the other hand though there is the economy of scale. Porsche are producing enough of the engines (plus spares) to bring the cost down significantly. Probably not into the same league as common mass produced steel items but likely a lot cheaper than it would cost me to have a set made for my car as a one-off.
I would suspect much of the cost though comes from the hand assembly and machining needed to build that kind of engine. Just the cost of balancing can be hideous...
What you have at the end though is something pretty bulletproof. You could spend a fraction of the money on tuning up something more mundane but in the end you spend all the time servicing or fixing it instead of using it.
The cost of engineering development and materials is all very small compared with the tooling cost. If one part of your design has to have a staping tool for a high strength steel your into mega buck. When you start machining titanium you are again into a lot of money. Plus the fact you have all different part numbers for all these special parts. This all costs, manufacturing, systems, testing, logistics........
Nice to develop special bits though isn't it.
Nice to develop special bits though isn't it.
lanciachris said:
Those hardening treatments are widely used, dry sump lubrication costs about £1500 - to the customer to retrofit to an existing engine, set of 6 titanium connecting rods = ~£600, again to the customer.
Can you tell me where to source these con-rods at £100 each because the list price is £1K each from the motorsports division?
jezzaaa said:
Compare that to a "normal" 996/997/Boxster engine which is around £7K to replace and that is telling you quite a lot about the engineering effort in this engine.
Have to disagree there, DaGinge. As someone whose Boxster S engine disintegrated six months ago, i can testify that it costs £11000 to replace it!!
Hmmm, are you sure that that's not £7K for the motor and £4K for the dealer's labour/profit?
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