RE: Don't wax after a respray

RE: Don't wax after a respray

Monday 10th October 2005

Don't wax after a respray

Car cleaning product maker issues advice


Seriously shiny
Seriously shiny
Keeping your pride and joy clean isn't simple -- especially if it's just had a respray. According to one car cleaning product maker, you need to give the car at least 90 days afterwards before waxing it.

Meguiar's calls this the ‘wax trap’ -- applying wax polish to fresh paint finishes which it claimed can damage your re-painting investment.

Meguiar's UK boss Steve King said: "Repainting is a significant cost, but many owners don’t realise that, unlike new car factory finishes, repainted car finishes require special attention for their first 90 days. Applying car wax to a fresh re-paint can trap solvents in the paint, and impeding the ‘cross-linking’ of modern paint polymers. This prevents a complete curing process and leaves the finish vulnerable to premature deterioration."

During the critical first 90 days, fresh paintwork must be allowed to breathe as solvent evaporates, the curing process completes and the paint achieves its optimal hardness and durability, said the company.

Meguiar's has issued this advice for new paint finishes:

1. Wash frequently -- during the first 90 days, freshly painted car finishes are soft and easily penetrated by bonded contaminants. This makes it especially important to wash your car more frequently during this time period. Regular car washing is the easiest way to remove contaminants before they have enough time to bond to your paint finish and the following tips may help:

  • To minimise water spotting and etching, always wash your car in the shade and make certain that the surface is cool to the touch.
  • For best results, never use dishwashing or household detergents to wash your car. They will dry out your paint and accelerate the oxidation process. Use only good quality car wash formulations which are pH-balanced and will enhance and condition your newly painted surface. Meguiar's obviously recommends its own...
  • Start from the top and work your way down, one section at a time, applying car wash solution liberally using a deep pile washmitt (Guess what? Meguiar's makes them too...).
  • Use two buckets, one for washing and one for rinsing, or a grit guard, to make certain that your sponge, brush or mitt is not inflicting avoidable scratches by reapplying the dirt and grime that you just removed.
  • To reduce the time it takes to dry your vehicle, on the final rinse, remove the nozzle and let the water gently flow out over the surfaces of your car in a stream of water rather than a spray. This will sheet the water off your car, leaving much less water to dry and saving you a lot of time and effort.
  • To avoid scratches during the drying process, only use a high quality microfibre towel. Meguiar’s said its towels are trimmed with "premium satin edges" to prevent scratches.

2. Remove contaminants immediately - Regular maintenance with a mist and wipe product removes fresh contaminants before they have time to bond to, or etch into, your paint finish.

Quickly remove water spots and contaminants like bird droppings, bugs, tree sap mist, road film, dust and overspray to provide a renewed shine. Stubborn stains or spots that cannot be removed with a mist and wipe product should be immediately washed.

3. Use only a pure polish on fresh paint -- unlike car waxes, a "pure" polish can be used on fresh paint to create brilliant, deep, clear gloss. Rather than coat your finish, pure polishes penetrate, rejuvenate and remove surface imperfection to create a bright finish without inhibiting the curing process.

After 90 days, most repainted car finishes are fully cured and ready to wax. Any paintwork will benefit from an annual ‘deep cleanse’ to remove wax build-up and prevent the early on-set of oxidation.

4. You can extend the life of your paint finish, said Meguiar's, with the following tips:

  • Park your car in the shade and under cover to avoid contaminants and UV degradation.
  • Avoid parking near trees. Tree sap mist is the most prevalent bonded contaminant on car finishes, destroying slickness and gloss.
  • Avoid the use of rubbing compounds and all other abrasive products.
  • To achieve maximum gloss and protection, use a detailing clay or clear coat-safe paint cleaner to make your paint as smooth as glass before you wax your car.
  • Wash your car regularly to remove contaminants before they have time to bond and etch into your paint finish.

"By following these simple suggestions, your freshly painted car could look like new for as long as you own it", said King.

Author
Discussion

Stuart J

Original Poster:

1,301 posts

257 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
I thought all modern paints on mass produced cars were water based, therefore what solvents are evaporating out of the paint ??

I guess they should know but dosent seem logical to me, can anyone enliten me. I had a respray last year & polished it 2 days later with Swissol & have had no probs. Perhaps Swissol is better !!

Jay GTi

1,026 posts

223 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
Yes modern factory paint will be water-based, but an aftermarket repsray can (and for the best finish most likely will) be done with solvent-based paints.

GregE240

10,857 posts

267 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
So we've got 2 schools of thought on this, then.

I spoke to Zymol in the US about applying HD-Cleanse/Wax after a respray and they said, sure, go ahead. Surely some protection is better than none? The paint in question was 4 days old.

The rest of this article is common sense coupled with what you should do with any car, regardless of age.

Andrew D

968 posts

240 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
I'm not sure whether modern paints are water based or not. I know that Health and Safety regs discourage the use of solvent based paints, but in my experience (from the construction industry) you often don't have a choice as water based products have pitiful lifespan compared to solvent based alternatives. So water based is not so good for a car you'd think.

I've found Meguires stuff to be very good, if a little expensive. I use their paint cleaner to bottom mine and "Techwax" to polish, and it comes up like glass.

Jay GTi

1,026 posts

223 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
Andrew D said:
I'm not sure whether modern paints are water based or not. I know that Health and Safety regs discourage the use of solvent based paints, but in my experience (from the construction industry) you often don't have a choice as water based products have pitiful lifespan compared to solvent based alternatives. So water based is not so good for a car you'd think.

I've found Meguires stuff to be very good, if a little expensive. I use their paint cleaner to bottom mine and "Techwax" to polish, and it comes up like glass.


I completely agree that water-based paints are crap, but for environmental reasons the big manufacturers use water-based paint now.

apguy

819 posts

248 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
An interesting amount of mis-information has been added to the comments about this article.

1) "Thought all modern paints on mass produced cars were water based, therefore what solvents are evaporating out of the paint ??"

The lacquer and primer coats are still solvent based.

2)"Yes modern factory paint will be water-based, but an aftermarket repsray can (and for the best finish most likely will) be done with solvent-based paints."

The basecoat will be water-borne from the factory and the vast majority of quality bodyshops will also be using waterborne for re-finish. I'd argue that the finish we can achieve is better than factory.
Bodyshops still using solvent are usually doing so because solvent base is £ cheaper. It also requires less material and doesn't necessarily need a £30k oven to dry.

3)"but in my experience (from the construction industry) you often don't have a choice as water based products have pitiful lifespan compared to solvent based alternatives. So water based is not so good for a car you'd think. "

Well its what the manufacturers put on the car to start with! Our own paint-scheme is Spies Hecker which is the OE paint for Mercedes-Benz, Jaguar and Volvo.
UV degradation with waterborne is far less than solvent. Try looking at a 15 year red Vauxhall painted in solvent. Its probably nearer a pink.

4)"According to someone I spoke to in the DTI bodyshops will be required to change at the end of this year to water based paints for health and safety reasons."

Not the end of this year but 2007. Solvent based base-coat will be illegal to use in the EU. Primer and lacquer will still be solvent based as I have only seen one commercially-viable water-borne primer. (Glasurit).

5)"So basically respray car take it home paint stuffed by the time you get there "

Absolute nonsense.

Just to add. TVR are already on a water-borne paint scheme (unless you opt for a reflec or cascade finish)

Hope this clarifys. If anyone has any questions regarding the paint process for repaired vehicles then just yell.

bmw320ci

595 posts

226 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
Simply the answer is yes

In regards to Swissol & Zymol wax they contain no Petro chemicals no abrasives!

I sell Swissol so I will promte Swissol all the way. (Btw PH can receive discount from me)

I have just used Swissol on a firbeglass newly painted corvette (pictures available if you require) the use of swissol on newly painted surfaces is fine as long it is dry (common sence).

Regards

Andrew

maxf

8,409 posts

241 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
Not uncommon for a car to be polished at the bodyshop after a respray. Certainly an minor contaminents in the paint will be smoothed over with some wet&dry and then given a buff with a machine polisher and buffing compound (posh t-cut to you and me), after which it will be polished. Is this not correct?

Will meguires be bringing out a special polish for newly painted cars?

miracle

389 posts

234 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
And we have ceramic clear coats as well soon, a bodyshops nightmare!

Balmoral Green

40,900 posts

248 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
So what do I do with BG after he comes out of the bodyshop following a full re-spray? shall I ask them NOT to polish it, or supply the right polish to them if they are going to make it look shiny for collection. Then what when I have gotten it home? leave it for three months with just regular washing only?

bmw320ci

595 posts

226 months

Monday 10th October 2005
quotequote all
BG you want to WAX not POLISH

Polishing typically use the compound in the polish in Autoglym's case chaulk

Our Waxes (Swissol) contain no polishing compounds just pure carnauba and essential oils.

If you are in the Dorset/Hant/wilsts area I would gladly give you a demo

Regards

Andrew

munky

5,328 posts

248 months

Tuesday 11th October 2005
quotequote all
bmw320ci said:
BG you want to WAX not POLISH
Andrew


Isn't waxing exactly what Meguiars are recommending NOT to do? And IF their advice is correct, what about applying something like armorfend, does that require waiting until 90 days after respray before applying it? I'm in the market for a total respray soon due to some serious stone chips and other scratches at the rear, and also considering armorfend or similar over the whole thing, since it chips too damn easily.

apguy

819 posts

248 months

Tuesday 11th October 2005
quotequote all
My previous replies were not connected with whether I think the articles advice is correct (or not).

The following question, however, needs a reply.

<Quote>So what do I do with BG after he comes out of the bodyshop following a full re-spray? shall I ask them NOT to polish it, or supply the right polish to them if they are going to make it look shiny for collection. </Quote>

After a vehicle is repainted it will be flatted with 1500 grade wet-dry, then polished using an air driven mop with a cutting compound. It will then be polished again, with the mop, using machine polish (finer grade). Sometimes we then use a finishing polish.
It is a very very rare event that a newly painted panel will not need a polish.
The polish that you use from Halfords is not sufficent for our needs.

So just to reiterate - before your car has been delivered to you the clear coat lacquer will already have been polished 3 times.
Also to make it clear. We actual do it when the lacquer is still a little bit soft as it makes the polishing easier.

Without creating an uproar, my personal view is that yes there is some mileage in letting the clearcoat fully cure before applying a wax based product. Although I remain sceptical that 90 days is required, I would suggest that no more than a 7 day period is necessary.

My bodyshop looks like this today - so I'll pick a car and post pictures of the complete repair process:

[pic] www.buryarc.com/P1010071.jpg [/pic]
[pic]|www.buryarc.com/P1010072.jpg [/pic]



>> Edited by apguy on Tuesday 11th October 09:23

Balmoral Green

40,900 posts

248 months

Tuesday 11th October 2005
quotequote all
apguy said:
Stuff
Many thanks.

Rhysoo

1 posts

193 months

Thursday 27th March 2008
quotequote all
I'm gutted, i've actually just done this, i didnt know that it would ruin the paintwork. I bought the laquer and paint spray from halfords.

I've got a 1996 ford fiesta in ash black, im trying to find out if there's a product available that would strip it back to the original paintwork. It's ruined the paintwork on the back right door.

If there's nothing available, i think i'll have to have it resprayed professionally. I hope not though, i've heared it's very expensive.

anyone know whether there's something ???