Road design for the intelligent.
Discussion
There has been a radical approach to new road design from a Traffic Safety consultant Hans Monderman in the Netherlands.
These approaches to road junction design are now being looked at as possible solutions to tackling crash problems.
Monderman suggests that many warning signs make the road less safe because they encourage the road user not to think
He says the best way to acheive safety is not to treat people like idiots, but to design roads and junctions that respect their intelligence
He uses behavioural psychology techniques to modify the habits of road users, believing that if you treat people like idiots they will act accordingly.
"Foolish pedestrians get killed, and foolish drivers can kill them," he says
Monderman knows that cultural values and peer pressure are often more effective than regulations when you want to effect an important social change.
"Don't drink and drive" is a model example of changing the culture in particular social contexts.
Monderman believes that to make a junction safe, you must make it dangerous. He has designed junctions that have no warning signs, road markings or traffic lights, and no rules for using them.
These junctions feel dangerous because people using them, both pedestrian and motorist, are not told who has priority. They have to rely on eye contact, their intelligence and their social skills to cross the road without getting knocked down or to drive through the junction witout crashing.
Apparently in Holland, where there are several of these junctions on experimental sites, people are changing their behaviour, safety is improving and tailbacks are shorter.
In the UK. traffic safety problems are solved by making more rules,putting up more warning signs or installing road humps and chicanes to impede traffic flow.
Monderman designs roads without humps or chicanes because he understands that if you increase driver frustration, you increase the likelihood that some of them will crash.
He believes that transport engineering solutions should not wage war on the motor vehicle because it is so useful to us.
Traffic engineers in this country are starting to take an interest in this work. It is very important because his approach encourages drivers to develop the key advanced driving skills of concentration, effective observation, anticipation and planning, rather than relying on conventional rules and controls that regulate the movement of traffic.
These counter-intuitive road safety problems cannot work everywhere, such as the very busy and congetsed ring roads around major cities (Londons North circular for instance) where the absence of traffic lights would very soon end with grid lock and chaos at peak traffic flow times. There are many busy locations in this country where Mondermans approach could have a real safety and traffic flow benefit.
Some European traffic Ministers are looking favourably at this work. The institution of Civil Engineers in the UK has recently endorsed some of his princilples as possible solutions at locations where peole and traffic have to interact safely.
There you have it! There may be a change by the traffic authorities in this country that relies on your intelligence as a driver rather than their idea of how uninitelligent everyone driving a car actually is.
These approaches to road junction design are now being looked at as possible solutions to tackling crash problems.
Monderman suggests that many warning signs make the road less safe because they encourage the road user not to think
He says the best way to acheive safety is not to treat people like idiots, but to design roads and junctions that respect their intelligence
He uses behavioural psychology techniques to modify the habits of road users, believing that if you treat people like idiots they will act accordingly.
"Foolish pedestrians get killed, and foolish drivers can kill them," he says
Monderman knows that cultural values and peer pressure are often more effective than regulations when you want to effect an important social change.
"Don't drink and drive" is a model example of changing the culture in particular social contexts.
Monderman believes that to make a junction safe, you must make it dangerous. He has designed junctions that have no warning signs, road markings or traffic lights, and no rules for using them.
These junctions feel dangerous because people using them, both pedestrian and motorist, are not told who has priority. They have to rely on eye contact, their intelligence and their social skills to cross the road without getting knocked down or to drive through the junction witout crashing.
Apparently in Holland, where there are several of these junctions on experimental sites, people are changing their behaviour, safety is improving and tailbacks are shorter.
In the UK. traffic safety problems are solved by making more rules,putting up more warning signs or installing road humps and chicanes to impede traffic flow.
Monderman designs roads without humps or chicanes because he understands that if you increase driver frustration, you increase the likelihood that some of them will crash.
He believes that transport engineering solutions should not wage war on the motor vehicle because it is so useful to us.
Traffic engineers in this country are starting to take an interest in this work. It is very important because his approach encourages drivers to develop the key advanced driving skills of concentration, effective observation, anticipation and planning, rather than relying on conventional rules and controls that regulate the movement of traffic.
These counter-intuitive road safety problems cannot work everywhere, such as the very busy and congetsed ring roads around major cities (Londons North circular for instance) where the absence of traffic lights would very soon end with grid lock and chaos at peak traffic flow times. There are many busy locations in this country where Mondermans approach could have a real safety and traffic flow benefit.
Some European traffic Ministers are looking favourably at this work. The institution of Civil Engineers in the UK has recently endorsed some of his princilples as possible solutions at locations where peole and traffic have to interact safely.
There you have it! There may be a change by the traffic authorities in this country that relies on your intelligence as a driver rather than their idea of how uninitelligent everyone driving a car actually is.
I remember something else the Dutch are experimenting with:
No traffic lights!!!
That way, drivers will be EXTRA cautious on their approach.
I'm sorry, but its a scary thought. Its allw ell and good treating drivers liuke intelligent people, but most just aren't.
How many times have people crashed and said "Sorry, I didnt see you" or "I wasen't concentrating"
A nice idea, but people have to be told. Otherwise people would just drive around in a daze, ignoring other cars.
No traffic lights!!!
That way, drivers will be EXTRA cautious on their approach.
I'm sorry, but its a scary thought. Its allw ell and good treating drivers liuke intelligent people, but most just aren't.
How many times have people crashed and said "Sorry, I didnt see you" or "I wasen't concentrating"
A nice idea, but people have to be told. Otherwise people would just drive around in a daze, ignoring other cars.
I am employed as a Highways Engineer but haven't heard of this idea. Seems like it could save a lot of Councils a lot of money as well! No signs to replace after vandalism etc. Trouble is, i've seen a few Hollanders driving and they were better than your average "numpty" (where did that phrase originate, even I am using it now). I can just see your average jack the lad driver over here, - "I'm bigger than you so i'm going first and f**k u!"
Cynical Me?
Cynical Me?
surely its easieer to try and make driving tests compulsary every ten years or so?! whilst this might mean that gordon brown loses tax money as people cant drive and thus cant use their cars, i thikn it would be better than relying on the british public to use their intelligence.
i have seen some appaling driving recently that is not committed because the driver was unitelligent and didnt know what to do but because the driver was simply driving with disregard to others. there is a difference between unintelligent driving such as middle lane hogging and stupid driving like undertaking. i would like to say that it would require people to drive safer and act in a more initelligent manner but picture this scenario:
there is a car in a minor road waiting to pull out onto a very busy major road which you are travelling on, there is a lot of traffic behind you. there is enough time for the driver to pull out and avoid an accident providing you brake heavily.
does the driver wait for all the traffic to clear or pull out infront of you?
of course they pulls out infront of you because their journey is much more important than anyone elses....
i have seen some appaling driving recently that is not committed because the driver was unitelligent and didnt know what to do but because the driver was simply driving with disregard to others. there is a difference between unintelligent driving such as middle lane hogging and stupid driving like undertaking. i would like to say that it would require people to drive safer and act in a more initelligent manner but picture this scenario:
there is a car in a minor road waiting to pull out onto a very busy major road which you are travelling on, there is a lot of traffic behind you. there is enough time for the driver to pull out and avoid an accident providing you brake heavily.
does the driver wait for all the traffic to clear or pull out infront of you?
of course they pulls out infront of you because their journey is much more important than anyone elses....
Haven't you missed out the part of his report that says "these will all work in twenty mph limits" or something? The version I read (I'm pretty sure it was the same guy) advocated "Home Zone" type things, where all traffic calming, pedestrian crossings, traffic controls, etc would be removed, forcing drivers to give way to absolutely everything all the time and crawl along at walking pace.
It all sounds great, especially the "treating drivers with intelligence" message, but what it basically boils down to is - make the roads more dangerous, people will have to slow down, then they won't kill each other. Which is only marginally different to the current philosophy of - turn the roads into a sportscar destryoing obstacle course, threaten fast drivers with disproportionate penalties, they will have to slow down, then they won't kill each other.
What's wrong with - make the roads safer, people can go faster, but they won't kill each other?
It seems to me like a retrograde step that will, at best, have a neutral effect on road safety but mean we all have to crawl around everywhere even more than we do already. There are so many ignorant and arrogant drivers out there that I can't see this working at all to be honest.
It all sounds great, especially the "treating drivers with intelligence" message, but what it basically boils down to is - make the roads more dangerous, people will have to slow down, then they won't kill each other. Which is only marginally different to the current philosophy of - turn the roads into a sportscar destryoing obstacle course, threaten fast drivers with disproportionate penalties, they will have to slow down, then they won't kill each other.
What's wrong with - make the roads safer, people can go faster, but they won't kill each other?
It seems to me like a retrograde step that will, at best, have a neutral effect on road safety but mean we all have to crawl around everywhere even more than we do already. There are so many ignorant and arrogant drivers out there that I can't see this working at all to be honest.
I've heard of this sort of thing before. IIRC the Swedes tried it out as a pilot shceme, and found that given time, it actually made roads more dangerous... then they moved onto designing cars that would NOT let you exceed the speed limit (using a GPS receiver and a map database it comered location to the speed limit and enforced it via electronics).
In practice it might not work here, but certainly the theories behind road and car safety are being turned on their head at the moment. For example the car manufacturers in the USA are finding that deaths and serious injuries are increasing even with the increased measures in place.... remember this is a country that thinks that seat belts are "optional".... However, the fitting of airbags for a number of years saw a reduction in such statistics. However, the trend is now rising again due to the fact that people have the mentality of "the airbag will save me".
So even though the manufacturers are adding newer and better safety measures, the mentality of the drivers is adapting accordingly... somewhat troublesome for the makers too. So, common thought needs to be "turned on its head" and innovative and simple solutions that may not seem correct are the order of the day....
Note however that the important factor or speed has not even entered into the discussion here. In fact as the average speeds drop the number of deaths increases - through no other reason than stated above....So it isnt speed related its people related....
Interesting approach and could work in places, but more of this type of thinking is needed to tackle the problem.
Just my 2p worth.
Cheers,
Paul
So even though the manufacturers are adding newer and better safety measures, the mentality of the drivers is adapting accordingly... somewhat troublesome for the makers too. So, common thought needs to be "turned on its head" and innovative and simple solutions that may not seem correct are the order of the day....
Note however that the important factor or speed has not even entered into the discussion here. In fact as the average speeds drop the number of deaths increases - through no other reason than stated above....So it isnt speed related its people related....
Interesting approach and could work in places, but more of this type of thinking is needed to tackle the problem.
Just my 2p worth.
Cheers,
Paul
squirrelz said: First time I read it I thought it was quoting Mondeoman not a chap called Monderman
Easiest way to make people drive more carefully is to fit a fcuk off great spike in the middle of the steering wheel.
I was going to change me name... but apparently Monderman already exists?!
It's a bit like working on high [415volt] electricity when its isolated you can just get on with the job in the pannel etc no chance of an electric shock by if the job has to be done LIVE [it could kill you] you tack every precaution and a lot of care its about respecting the conditions.
The same can be applied to driving. If you know it will kill you you would not do it lifes a long risk assesment some value life differently.
Paul.
The same can be applied to driving. If you know it will kill you you would not do it lifes a long risk assesment some value life differently.
Paul.
From todays Telegraph...
White lines wiped off roads to slow traffic
By Richard Alleyne
(Filed: 13/11/2002)
Forget road bumps, warning signs and speed cameras. One council has turned to reverse psychology to slow traffic.
Road managers at Wiltshire county council have started to remove the white lines from the middle of major roads. They claim the move creates a feeling of "uncertainty" among drivers that in turn makes them more cautious.
At present the initiative is limited to five roads but if successful it will be rolled out to many others. While many road safety campaigners have kept an open mind about the experiment, others, including residents, claim it is plain madness.
"This seems total madness to me and is nothing but a cost-cutting exercise," said Terry Chivers, a local councillor. "To be not renewing lines on roads is a disgrace and will cost lives."
Wiltshire county council, which is Conservative-controlled, launched the scheme in an attempt to cut road deaths 18 months ago. Last year there were 1,396 road traffic accidents in the county, resulting in 33 deaths.
Three newly-laid miles of road in the county are now without central white lines, although they still have markings at the sides. They are on Hungerdown Lane, Chippenham; London Road, Devizes; Wilton Road, Salisbury; Semington Road, Melksham, and the A360 at Shrewton near Salisbury.
All are in 30mph limit zones, except the A360, which is on the entrance to the village, and all have street lights. But Fleur de Rhe-Philipe, cabinet member for the environment, said all other junction markings and warnings have been kept.
She added: "It brings a measure of uncertainty when lane markings are not there and so drivers are more careful. Of course, if we found it caused a problem, we would rethink it."
But Liberal Democrat Mr Chivers, who represents the village of Holt, has written letters of protest to her and the Department of Transport, Local Government and the Regions.
Salisbury district councillor Colin Mills, who lives in Shrewton, said: "The stretch of road which now has no line markings has always been a bit of a racetrack. My fear is that without carriageway markings there could be more accidents in the village."
But Peter Harris, the county council's principal traffic engineer, said there is no intention to begin removing existing white lines. He said: "We will only implement the scheme on certain stretches of road.
"This is in no way a wholesale measure to start removing white lines from Wiltshire roads." Mr Harris said other roads will be considered for inclusion in the scheme as and when they are resurfaced. However, he said there were no figures available yet to reveal if the experiment had cut or increased road accidents.
But he added: "We believe the measures have significantly reduced road traffic accidents in the areas where they have been implemented. But as the scheme is relatively new the statistics are not yet available to confirm this." It is believed the scheme was tried in Holland where it was a success.
Rita Taylor, spokesman for the road safety group RoadPeace, said: "I'm quite concerned about the initiative. I'm not sure that taking away the markings will have the desired effect, we will just have to wait and see."
Kevin Delaney, a spokesman for the RAC, said: "The white lines in the road centre tend to create in drivers a feeling of confidence. When these lines are removed drivers become less certain and in turn reduce their speed which increases safety for all road users."
Karen Blanche, spokeswoman for the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said: "We neither welcome nor condemn this initiative because each road is different and has to be viewed on its own merits."
White lines wiped off roads to slow traffic
By Richard Alleyne
(Filed: 13/11/2002)
Forget road bumps, warning signs and speed cameras. One council has turned to reverse psychology to slow traffic.
Road managers at Wiltshire county council have started to remove the white lines from the middle of major roads. They claim the move creates a feeling of "uncertainty" among drivers that in turn makes them more cautious.
At present the initiative is limited to five roads but if successful it will be rolled out to many others. While many road safety campaigners have kept an open mind about the experiment, others, including residents, claim it is plain madness.
"This seems total madness to me and is nothing but a cost-cutting exercise," said Terry Chivers, a local councillor. "To be not renewing lines on roads is a disgrace and will cost lives."
Wiltshire county council, which is Conservative-controlled, launched the scheme in an attempt to cut road deaths 18 months ago. Last year there were 1,396 road traffic accidents in the county, resulting in 33 deaths.
Three newly-laid miles of road in the county are now without central white lines, although they still have markings at the sides. They are on Hungerdown Lane, Chippenham; London Road, Devizes; Wilton Road, Salisbury; Semington Road, Melksham, and the A360 at Shrewton near Salisbury.
All are in 30mph limit zones, except the A360, which is on the entrance to the village, and all have street lights. But Fleur de Rhe-Philipe, cabinet member for the environment, said all other junction markings and warnings have been kept.
She added: "It brings a measure of uncertainty when lane markings are not there and so drivers are more careful. Of course, if we found it caused a problem, we would rethink it."
But Liberal Democrat Mr Chivers, who represents the village of Holt, has written letters of protest to her and the Department of Transport, Local Government and the Regions.
Salisbury district councillor Colin Mills, who lives in Shrewton, said: "The stretch of road which now has no line markings has always been a bit of a racetrack. My fear is that without carriageway markings there could be more accidents in the village."
But Peter Harris, the county council's principal traffic engineer, said there is no intention to begin removing existing white lines. He said: "We will only implement the scheme on certain stretches of road.
"This is in no way a wholesale measure to start removing white lines from Wiltshire roads." Mr Harris said other roads will be considered for inclusion in the scheme as and when they are resurfaced. However, he said there were no figures available yet to reveal if the experiment had cut or increased road accidents.
But he added: "We believe the measures have significantly reduced road traffic accidents in the areas where they have been implemented. But as the scheme is relatively new the statistics are not yet available to confirm this." It is believed the scheme was tried in Holland where it was a success.
Rita Taylor, spokesman for the road safety group RoadPeace, said: "I'm quite concerned about the initiative. I'm not sure that taking away the markings will have the desired effect, we will just have to wait and see."
Kevin Delaney, a spokesman for the RAC, said: "The white lines in the road centre tend to create in drivers a feeling of confidence. When these lines are removed drivers become less certain and in turn reduce their speed which increases safety for all road users."
Karen Blanche, spokeswoman for the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said: "We neither welcome nor condemn this initiative because each road is different and has to be viewed on its own merits."
We should use what in Canada is called the 4-way stop
(or 3-way stop), instead of a crossroads. All vehicles must stop and have priority only in the order they arrived at the crossing. Of course a lot of politeness is relied on, which is normal in Canada, alas no more in the majority of southern GB!!
RiverGirl, over to you!
(or 3-way stop), instead of a crossroads. All vehicles must stop and have priority only in the order they arrived at the crossing. Of course a lot of politeness is relied on, which is normal in Canada, alas no more in the majority of southern GB!!
RiverGirl, over to you!
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